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Old 08-23-2016, 10:37 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Official TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

K.King
Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 12-06-2015, 06:28 PM   #766
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Well - I know lots of folks have posted their "track test results" on here, but thought maybe mine would still be of some value... Let me be clear - *I* am the main limiting factor on performance with this car. I have been racing since 1989, but I'm 67 years old now and trust me - my reflexes are NOT "ninja / Nintendo" speed or quality... My first LOSI buggy was a Pro SE, and my 3.0 replaced my trusty 2.0 mid-motor that I had tuned as well as it was going to get...

My 3.0 looks good and (in my opinion) runs good too.... It's not a "miracle car", but slightly faster, slightly smoother, and slightly more consistent right out of the box with the "kit setup" than the 2.0 that I have been tuning on for a long, long time... Considering it is handicapped by having a 67 year old man at the controls, that says a lot about the car.... My fastest lap all night was a 25.9 or something like that - in the main, my fastest lap was 26.217 and my average was 27.064... For an old guy like me, the improvement isn't in the "fast lap", although that will come as I tweak the setup to my liking, but - WOW! - the consistency was huge... With my 2.0, I could get "fast laps" in the same range, but never the consistency.

The 3.0 is "hooked up" as well as, or better than, the 2.0 mid-motor, but the primary improvement was in the steering... With the 2.0, I had gotten to the point where I really wanted more steering, but hadn't gotten it... (With the 2.0, I would have to adapt by turning in "early" to get it to cut tight and then anticipate a push on exit - all of this contributed to a lack of consistency.) The 3.0, right "out of the box" turns better, holds a better line on exit, and lets me run a consistent line. This may not sound very important to most of you, but at my age, my vision (I wear bifocals) is not what is once was, and on our large indoor track (120' by 60'), I need a car that cuts and holds a good line or I clip the pipes on the far corners....

Bottom line - I am in love with this car... Saturday night, with minimal practice, I managed to qualify 7th out of 10 in the A-main and then drove my way to 5th place. My "moral victory" was that the winner didn't quite lap me! (At the end of the 6 minute main, he was within one second of me, but since he would normally have passed me at around the 4 minute mark, that is progress for me...)
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Old 12-06-2015, 10:18 PM   #767
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So I know a lot of people are still just getting their cars, but for those who have theirs and been running them in stock, what have you found you liked for gearing? I tried what frank recommended 70/31 and was getting smoked. My car is built box stock and has about 20 packs on it so it's good and broke in/free. I'm running an Orion r10 pro in blinky with the Fantom FR-1 17.5. Motor is set at 52* of timing and coming off the track about 95-100. I went up to a 33 pinion and had much better results and coming off the track after a 6min A main at 130. Just curious to see where others were at with stock gearing
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Old 12-06-2015, 10:30 PM   #768
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So I know a lot of people are still just getting their cars, but for those who have theirs and been running them in stock, what have you found you liked for gearing? I tried what frank recommended 70/31 and was getting smoked. My car is built box stock and has about 20 packs on it so it's good and broke in/free. I'm running an Orion r10 pro in blinky with the Fantom FR-1 17.5. Motor is set at 52* of timing and coming off the track about 95-100. I went up to a 33 pinion and had much better results and coming off the track after a 6min A main at 130. Just curious to see where others were at with stock gearing
what was your ESC temp? if it is in the same range I would bump to 34 or 35 anything in the 140 range after 6 min is perfectly fine. I run mod but help a lot of the stock guys at my track get dialed in.
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Old 12-07-2015, 06:09 AM   #769
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.... It's not a "miracle car", but slightly faster, slightly smoother, and slightly more consistent right out of the box with the "kit setup"....
Thanks for sharing your experience. Mine has been very similar. The car is not miraculously better than what I had, but it is somewhat better and the clock is showing me that.
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Old 12-07-2015, 06:16 AM   #770
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what was your ESC temp? if it is in the same range I would bump to 34 or 35 anything in the 140 range after 6 min is perfectly fine. I run mod but help a lot of the stock guys at my track get dialed in.
Esc is even cooler than motor. I run a fan on it and it was only about 110. I know all motors were different but for me it just seemed as tho the suggested 70/31 was way off. If also going with a slipper elelminator this week so when I do that I'm going to try the 69t spur. So I might just leave the 33 alone for now with the 69 and see how that works out.
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:28 AM   #771
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1 race day on the new kit and it is pretty sweet.. still tweaking it but its coming around! I feel like I can push it harder than my 2.0 for sure. TLR did an awesome job with this one!! FYI until they have chassis protectors ready for it a t5m one cut a little bit is a really good fit.
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:30 AM   #772
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Esc is even cooler than motor. I run a fan on it and it was only about 110. I know all motors were different but for me it just seemed as tho the suggested 70/31 was way off. If also going with a slipper elelminator this week so when I do that I'm going to try the 69t spur. So I might just leave the 33 alone for now with the 69 and see how that works out.
Keep us posted. Im planning on running stock one I get mine but would rather you guys work the bugs out first before I do haha
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:41 AM   #773
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1 race day on the new kit and it is pretty sweet.. still tweaking it but its coming around! I feel like I can push it harder than my 2.0 for sure. TLR did an awesome job with this one!! FYI until they have chassis protectors ready for it a t5m one cut a little bit is a really good fit.
Already available: http://www.tlracing.com/Products/Def...odID=TLR331017
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:46 AM   #774
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Keep us posted. Im planning on running stock one I get mine but would rather you guys work the bugs out first before I do haha
Gearing is kinda tricky cause it so motor dependent, and no motor is alike. I know on my 22 2.0 when I ran stock I ran a 70/33-34 depending on the track. Heat plays a role, track size and layout plays a role. There is no one size fits all. It's tweaking til you find the sweet spot. Thankfully I am running mod with the 22 3.0 on a smallish track so gearing isn't as important. The manual suggested gearing works just fine.
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:50 AM   #775
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1 race day on the new kit and it is pretty sweet.. still tweaking it but its coming around! I feel like I can push it harder than my 2.0 for sure. TLR did an awesome job with this one!! FYI until they have chassis protectors ready for it a t5m one cut a little bit is a really good fit.
Yeah, my first time out, with no practice, literally having just finished building the car 6 hours before race start time, I was able to go out and get third in mod buggy against some pretty fast drivers at LRH last weekend on a pretty technical track. This was with kit setup and my battery way too far forward. It's a keeper until my car ADD kicks in, and I need a new one to try lol. But yeah Frank did an amazing job with this one.
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:51 AM   #776
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Gearing is kinda tricky cause it so motor dependent, and no motor is alike. I know on my 22 2.0 when I ran stock I ran a 70/33-34 depending on the track. Heat plays a role, track size and layout plays a role. There is no one size fits all. It's tweaking til you find the sweet spot. Thankfully I am running mod with the 22 3.0 on a smallish track so gearing isn't as important. The manual suggested gearing works just fine.
Ya i totally understand whats your saying. Maybe I will just run this buggy as a mod and keep my B5M for stock since that one is somewhat dialed. Thanks for the input
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:53 AM   #777
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Originally Posted by tfrahm View Post
Well - I know lots of folks have posted their "track test results" on here, but thought maybe mine would still be of some value... Let me be clear - *I* am the main limiting factor on performance with this car. I have been racing since 1989, but I'm 67 years old now and trust me - my reflexes are NOT "ninja / Nintendo" speed or quality... My first LOSI buggy was a Pro SE, and my 3.0 replaced my trusty 2.0 mid-motor that I had tuned as well as it was going to get...

My 3.0 looks good and (in my opinion) runs good too.... It's not a "miracle car", but slightly faster, slightly smoother, and slightly more consistent right out of the box with the "kit setup" than the 2.0 that I have been tuning on for a long, long time... Considering it is handicapped by having a 67 year old man at the controls, that says a lot about the car.... My fastest lap all night was a 25.9 or something like that - in the main, my fastest lap was 26.217 and my average was 27.064... For an old guy like me, the improvement isn't in the "fast lap", although that will come as I tweak the setup to my liking, but - WOW! - the consistency was huge... With my 2.0, I could get "fast laps" in the same range, but never the consistency.

The 3.0 is "hooked up" as well as, or better than, the 2.0 mid-motor, but the primary improvement was in the steering... With the 2.0, I had gotten to the point where I really wanted more steering, but hadn't gotten it... (With the 2.0, I would have to adapt by turning in "early" to get it to cut tight and then anticipate a push on exit - all of this contributed to a lack of consistency.) The 3.0, right "out of the box" turns better, holds a better line on exit, and lets me run a consistent line. This may not sound very important to most of you, but at my age, my vision (I wear bifocals) is not what is once was, and on our large indoor track (120' by 60'), I need a car that cuts and holds a good line or I clip the pipes on the far corners....

Bottom line - I am in love with this car... Saturday night, with minimal practice, I managed to qualify 7th out of 10 in the A-main and then drove my way to 5th place. My "moral victory" was that the winner didn't quite lap me! (At the end of the 6 minute main, he was within one second of me, but since he would normally have passed me at around the 4 minute mark, that is progress for me...)
Very well articulated, I can say the exact same thing about it. It fixed the one huge glaring issue I had with the 22 2.0, the scrubbing of corner speed to get around a turn. If a 22T 3.0 comes out I will be very happy.
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:56 AM   #778
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Ya i totally understand whats your saying. Maybe I will just run this buggy as a mod and keep my B5M for stock since that one is somewhat dialed. Thanks for the input
This is the second car I have bought new that I feel totally comfortable with throwing in a mod motor and not worrying about it (the other is the Yokomo (only) under the right conditions). Not so much for the AE car, but their SC truck is dialed with the right springs on it.
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Old 12-07-2015, 08:00 AM   #779
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Thanks! My local hobby shop didn't get their order of parts in yet, just the kits.. so I had to use what I could find until they came in.
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Old 12-07-2015, 09:34 AM   #780
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what are the big step spacer for in the tuneing bag use for
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