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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Official TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

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Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 12-01-2015, 08:02 PM   #601
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I'll try to say this without sounding like a jerk:
You already have multiple people saying screws stripped out with zero effort, maybe instead of assuming I don't know if a shock tower is bottomed out or I have gorilla hands and over tightened things you could maybe try looking into the problem.
I have probably built just as many cars as you and have never had a problem with screws stripping without becoming the slightest bit tight first......until this car.



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I'm guessing the tower wasn't flush to the bulkhead, and those screws probably just aren't bottomed out.

The one on top of the servo mount, we tightened those from the last car, and mine have been super positive and not stripped at all.

It is a metric machined thread into plastic, no matter how "tight" the thread are, I could strip them all out if I tried. But building lots of cars, and knowing how to feel when the screw is stopping in the hole is pretty key.
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Old 12-01-2015, 08:12 PM   #602
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Picked up the kit today from my local shop. Finished the front end and happy so far. Only issue I had was with the plastic front pivot the right side grub screw hole did not line up with the hinge pin and therefore I was able to tap the hinge pin out of place without much effort. Also that side seems to have a decent amount of bind. I'm going to purchase a new pivot to fix the issue.
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Old 12-01-2015, 08:13 PM   #603
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Just built my car. I had no problems with the screws and I used a power driver. However the driveshafts looked like they were about to fall out the out drives so I installed the shims. I'm running it tomorrow. Can't wait.
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Old 12-01-2015, 08:49 PM   #604
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What screw holes did you strip? Which power driver did you use? I haven't heard any comments from team drivers, or had any issues with my car. I know the drive I use well, and which clutch settings are appropriate.
I decided not to use a power driver after stripping a hole so quick into the build. Off the top my head, one in the front bulkhead, one of the mud guard holes, and the bottom hole on the wing mount stripped.

Step A-13, why aren't the two screws thread locked in since they screw into metal?
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Old 12-01-2015, 09:01 PM   #605
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Originally Posted by Josh Hohnstein View Post
2 on the front tower, one on the top of the servo mount and one on a chassis side plastic piece.
Having built and worked on many different 22s 22ts etc this last year (mostly used cars), I will say that all those spots are very common to find stripped..

8mm screws for the shock tower do seem a little short, I think I've bumped up to 10mm for those sometimes but with 4 screws, the tower should be mated pretty good, no need to go crazy tight.

The mud guard screws easy to strip as well, since they are so short.

surprised to see the screw on top of servo strip on you, since they bumped it up to a 14mm button there..

basically.. be careful with the shorter screws..
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Old 12-01-2015, 09:53 PM   #606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Hohnstein View Post
I'll try to say this without sounding like a jerk:
You already have multiple people saying screws stripped out with zero effort, maybe instead of assuming I don't know if a shock tower is bottomed out or I have gorilla hands and over tightened things you could maybe try looking into the problem.
I have probably built just as many cars as you and have never had a problem with screws stripping without becoming the slightest bit tight first......until this car.
If I can build a car, with a power driver, and not strip out any screws, then it is hard to find the problem. If I try to strip a hole out to check it, then I can certainly strip it out. I'm always open to feedback, so thanks!

The shock tower/bulkhead have been existing parts for years, and this is not a common/regular complaint, so I was surprised to hear it is all.

It is a fine line, and we always do our best. If the hole is too small, then it requires too much effort to pilot screws and cut threads, then people get upset. If the holes start okay, and hole pretty well but can strip out if over-wrenched, then people are upset also. We really do our best.

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Originally Posted by Chr1s View Post
Just built my car. I had no problems with the screws and I used a power driver. However the driveshafts looked like they were about to fall out the out drives so I installed the shims. I'm running it tomorrow. Can't wait.
Great to hear, sounds similar to my building experiences.

The driveshaft is close without the shim, but works fine for most. Only a couple of reports of gnarly crashed popping driveshafts out.

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Originally Posted by Jpdanger View Post
I decided not to use a power driver after stripping a hole so quick into the build. Off the top my head, one in the front bulkhead, one of the mud guard holes, and the bottom hole on the wing mount stripped.

Step A-13, why aren't the two screws thread locked in since they screw into metal?
Using a power driver is fine as long as it has a good adjustable clutch set properly. I use the Hitachi, the best on the market from my experience. I use setting 5 for almost all plastics, and setting 4 for Nylon plastics (like the wing mount), then hand tighten from there.

On a side note, I'd definitely recommend staying away from the Makita drivers, especially the impact. From my experience, the driver clutch settings and auto stop function make it difficult to find the proper clutch settings. The impact driver is just too much for M3 screws into plastic.

Step A-13 has the crush of the molded from pivot to hold the screws tight, they don't come loose. No need for thread lock, but you can use it if you prefer.
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:11 PM   #607
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IME, TLR plastics are a little softer than the AE kits. That doesn't mean they're worse (softer should handle impacts a little better), but I do think they require a little more care when threading screws.
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:25 PM   #608
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And sometimes it isn't even the plastic, it's the quality of the threads in the screws. If a screw comes with a tiny piece of a thread out of spec, it can ruin the entire hole it goes into. IMO, start fresh with lunsford's right out of the box. No more stripped. I'm glad to hear people are liking the build. Guys got them at our track in Tacoma WA yesterday, I believe. Sunday should be a losi show
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:58 PM   #609
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Losi messed up and let me get my hands on a kit😎 Racing will never be the same......in Norcal at least😄😄😄😄 I will be doing all my 2wd racing in 17.5 Seems that the majority so far have been running mod. Wanted to possibly test with pucks but the dog bones being out so far worries me a little. I will get a feel for the car with all the stock parts before changing some things. Happy racing to all this weekend.
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Old 12-01-2015, 11:52 PM   #610
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Im not being rude at all to any of the fellow drivers in this thread... but the feel of the screw as your tightening it kind of tells a story if you will. If you dont interperate it correctly its going to strip, no questions asked. Its not something everyone knows so when assembling a kit pay special attention to the feel and never use a driver to go completely tight. About 75% will suffice and then finish it by hand, paying close attention to the feel. It sounds stupid but i promise if you follow the feel you wont strip anymore screws.
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Old 12-02-2015, 12:58 AM   #611
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TLR plastics in some places have always been, and always will be crap. Didn't stop me from ordering a new kit. Will see how it is out of the box with what it comes with. If it doesn't blow away either my Yokomo YZ-2 or B5M Lite. It will be up for sale very quickly.
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Old 12-02-2015, 01:21 AM   #612
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I've been racing and building rc cars for more then 20 years. First buggy was a Losi JR Pro SE.

Here is my take on screws threading into LOSI plastic or any plastic part for that matter. When you are cutting new threads with a metal screw you are creating a lot of heat from the resistance. Ever touched a screw right after you thread it in for the first time? It gets pretty hot. Now think about how hot the plastic is getting from that screw...and what happens to plastic when it gets hot....it becomes soft and wants to melt. So by cinching your screws all the way down while cutting new threads, you will end up stripping the plastic nearly every time.

So the secret is this, thread your screws in about 75 to 80% and stop. Do this to the majority of the screws as you build. Then after the screw and the plastic cools down, slowly and lightly tighten the screw down until it just cinches tight. Do not add that extra turn to see if it is tight. After your first couple of runs you can go back and check if anything feels loose.

Trust me I learned this the hard way with my first few builds. But since I adopted this method, I have not had much in way of plastics stripping out during the build.

Now this is not to say that there are some places where very short screws that hold parts together will easily strip. Just have to be gentle and patient, then some times use a longer screw.

Hope this helps with your future builds.
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Old 12-02-2015, 04:16 AM   #613
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I used a power driver on Tyler's car. Use it on every car for that matter. I set clutch low and run them in till it hits clutch. After some steps, I'll build another step and come back to previous step and finish hand tightening. And hand tighten entire car after build is done. TLR has the perfect plastic for racing IMO. Not too hard or soft on all their cars.

Our driveshafts are at edge of our drives too and we haven't needed to to shim them in. Tyler's has sent his on some good wrecks and they have not popped out.
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Old 12-02-2015, 04:47 AM   #614
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I am having a problem. The car turns on then at dead stop the car won't accelerate again. I sent the motor back for evaluation and they replied that there were no issues with motor nor sensor port. Any ideas/help
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Old 12-02-2015, 05:19 AM   #615
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I am having a problem. The car turns on then at dead stop the car won't accelerate again. I sent the motor back for evaluation and they replied that there were no issues with motor nor sensor port. Any ideas/help
Sounds like a defective sensor board in the ESC.
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