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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Official TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

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Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 12-27-2016, 10:00 PM   #4006
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Through turns. The rear doesn't square up at exit. I have to really wait to get back on throttle or I'll get loose.
Have you tried moving the rear hubs forward?
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Old 12-27-2016, 10:23 PM   #4007
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Almost ready... hope to take her on the maiden voyage this weekend!
Is that your's really? Do you race for hours with all that fan stuff?
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Old 12-28-2016, 04:30 AM   #4008
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There is the -2.0 plate, 3.0 would give you 1, 2.5 would give you .5.
Thank you
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Old 12-28-2016, 06:01 AM   #4009
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Is that your's really? Do you race for hours with all that fan stuff?
That is a Hobbywing V3.1 ESC with the fan that comes on the ESC. Buggy was set up for mod motor, so no real reason to remove the fan to save weight or anything. It fits under the body with no trouble, and never hurts to keep your gear cool. So yes, that is really how it is set up. (*my post you quoted was over a year old... man time goes by fast!)
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Old 12-28-2016, 06:37 AM   #4010
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Does anyone know if 3.0 rear wheels and KYO RB6 rear wheels are interchangeable, same offset, etc...?

Thanks
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Old 12-28-2016, 07:45 AM   #4011
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Hey tech gurus, I'm struggling to find a mega-high traction setup. More than the team drivers post on Petit or TLR. Carpet off road with Schumacher mini pins. Most club drivers run a ride height of 10-14mm. The problem I see is that they are softening the spring so much to get there that they are adding traction. 1.8 springs in the rear with collars all the way up yields 14mm for me.

Do you know if there are shorter springs that would work? Serpent astros maybe?

The amount of conflicting info on HRC and LRC is a conundrum too. HRC is less roll, so I would think less traction? I get confused because most of our local fast drivers run LRC with light weight oil with the logic they want the chassis to roll more rather than putting more pressure on the tires and adding traction.

Any insight appreciated.
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Old 12-28-2016, 09:19 AM   #4012
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What are the driving characteristics between the long and short Vla. I see most setups on Tlr website have the short Vla. Frank root one of the few running it long.
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Old 12-28-2016, 10:39 AM   #4013
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What are the driving characteristics between the long and short Vla. I see most setups on Tlr website have the short Vla. Frank root one of the few running it long.
Long VLA has a smoothing effect. I run mine long. I found that short VLA was good, aggressive, but my setup was a little more sensitive to tire and track conditions and the car was a little less predictable.
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Old 12-28-2016, 10:45 AM   #4014
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Thumbs up New Spec-Racer Build

Finally got around to uploading pictures from my 22 3.0 SR kit. Love the way the car turned out. Props to TLR for making another amazing buggy. Drove it on the track yesterday with the OTB set-up and it was a great performer already. Can't wait to start racing this beauty. Cheers.
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Old 12-28-2016, 01:57 PM   #4015
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Originally Posted by WALZ View Post
Hey tech gurus, I'm struggling to find a mega-high traction setup. More than the team drivers post on Petit or TLR. Carpet off road with Schumacher mini pins. Most club drivers run a ride height of 10-14mm. The problem I see is that they are softening the spring so much to get there that they are adding traction. 1.8 springs in the rear with collars all the way up yields 14mm for me.

Do you know if there are shorter springs that would work? Serpent astros maybe?

The amount of conflicting info on HRC and LRC is a conundrum too. HRC is less roll, so I would think less traction? I get confused because most of our local fast drivers run LRC with light weight oil with the logic they want the chassis to roll more rather than putting more pressure on the tires and adding traction.

Any insight appreciated.
You running laydown? I ran on mega high traction carpet with pin tires. Laydown is a must for two reasons: lower CG and gets the geometry right to run ride heights below 20 mm. HRC pivot in the front. I've just started playing with HRC pivot in the rear, but I have no conclusion so far.

Everyone here is running closer to 18-19 mm ride height with stiff springs and thick oil. A good starting point for most buggies is Kyosho gold springs front and rear, 37.5 wt oil (for 2x1.6 mm front piston, 2x1.7 mm rear). I also have some of the Yatabe Arena springs that start at about K gold and go even firmer. Run your front shocks out on the tower and arm; rear start middle-middle and go out if needed. If you need less side bite, got out on the tower.

What's apparent to me is that super low ride heights screw with the suspension geometry and jump poorly. We go for minimizing chassis roll, which helps prevent traction roll. I suspect the 14 mm ride height you're seeing is purely to combat traction roll with the soft springs.
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Old 12-28-2016, 07:52 PM   #4016
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Originally Posted by Callaway View Post
You running laydown? I ran on mega high traction carpet with pin tires. Laydown is a must for two reasons: lower CG and gets the geometry right to run ride heights below 20 mm. HRC pivot in the front. I've just started playing with HRC pivot in the rear, but I have no conclusion so far.

Everyone here is running closer to 18-19 mm ride height with stiff springs and thick oil. A good starting point for most buggies is Kyosho gold springs front and rear, 37.5 wt oil (for 2x1.6 mm front piston, 2x1.7 mm rear). I also have some of the Yatabe Arena springs that start at about K gold and go even firmer. Run your front shocks out on the tower and arm; rear start middle-middle and go out if needed. If you need less side bite, got out on the tower.

What's apparent to me is that super low ride heights screw with the suspension geometry and jump poorly. We go for minimizing chassis roll, which helps prevent traction roll. I suspect the 14 mm ride height you're seeing is purely to combat traction roll with the soft springs.
I run the same but with black springs up front and white in the back. We run 19mm ride height. I also run the HRC rear, but that's just me. Shocks in front of the arms in the rear with that crappy mod, wish TRL would release a official mod.
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Old 12-28-2016, 10:49 PM   #4017
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Originally Posted by Callaway View Post
You running laydown? I ran on mega high traction carpet with pin tires. Laydown is a must for two reasons: lower CG and gets the geometry right to run ride heights below 20 mm. HRC pivot in the front. I've just started playing with HRC pivot in the rear, but I have no conclusion so far.

Everyone here is running closer to 18-19 mm ride height with stiff springs and thick oil. A good starting point for most buggies is Kyosho gold springs front and rear, 37.5 wt oil (for 2x1.6 mm front piston, 2x1.7 mm rear). I also have some of the Yatabe Arena springs that start at about K gold and go even firmer. Run your front shocks out on the tower and arm; rear start middle-middle and go out if needed. If you need less side bite, got out on the tower.

What's apparent to me is that super low ride heights screw with the suspension geometry and jump poorly. We go for minimizing chassis roll, which helps prevent traction roll. I suspect the 14 mm ride height you're seeing is purely to combat traction roll with the soft springs.
Thank you for the insight. I am running laydown. Stiffer makes sense to me and good to know on the kyosho spring compatibility. Can't wait to try going out on the shock tower, hadn't tried that yet. The carpet is really cheap and the mini pins dig in hard, getting rid of traction or not traction rolling is the toughest battle. i shaved the outer row on the mini pins and squeeked out a win in stock amain tonight. That was a bandaid fix and I know there is more in the car even if it means going against the grain of the long-time local racers. Thank you
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:23 PM   #4018
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Originally Posted by WALZ View Post
Thank you for the insight. I am running laydown. Stiffer makes sense to me and good to know on the kyosho spring compatibility. Can't wait to try going out on the shock tower, hadn't tried that yet. The carpet is really cheap and the mini pins dig in hard, getting rid of traction or not traction rolling is the toughest battle. i shaved the outer row on the mini pins and squeeked out a win in stock amain tonight. That was a bandaid fix and I know there is more in the car even if it means going against the grain of the long-time local racers. Thank you
If your not running the laydown, it should be your first purchase. You can still find the conversion kits out there.
Congrats on the win.
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Old 12-29-2016, 02:45 AM   #4019
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One thing that we are doing to assist with getting lower ride heights on the rear in the UK is to take 2mm off the shock eyelet. This allowes lower running ride heights. This is because the shock cup stops on the Eyelet where as this lowers the shock cup.
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:27 AM   #4020
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Frank, can I convert my stand up car to the spec racer for the trans. Will the outdrives fit the standard gear case or do I need a new case? Will the stock diff gear work?
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