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Old 08-23-2016, 10:37 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Official TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

K.King
Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 12-06-2016, 08:48 AM   #3871
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Originally Posted by Frank Root View Post
Yes, they are for different applications. Based on the "dirt" tranny sales, it's pretty clear which is what people are really after, which is why we've moved on to TLR338005.
I can imagine the dirt version was more popular. Out of curiosity, was the carpet conversion not selling well or was it determined that many were buying it only to further convert it to a dirt laydown?

It would be nice to have either option. I already have (and love) my carpet (+3.5) laydown conversion but now without 338004 building a similar car made and expensive proposition a little more expensive.

22 3.0 Kit: $299.99
New Laydown Kit (338005): $139.99
+3.5 Laydown Transmission: $71.99
+3mm Rear Hub: $31.99

TOTAL: $543.96

This a $64 increase for carpet guys over the buying the car with 338004.

Perhaps the dirt conversion will suffice? All I can say Frank is my carpet laydown with your April '16 JBRL setup is amazing.
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Old 12-06-2016, 11:59 AM   #3872
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what is the part number for the standard height aluminum hubs. Not the +3mm. The regular old standard height is what I am looking for. Is it tlr334014?
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Old 12-06-2016, 12:42 PM   #3873
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what is the part number for the standard height aluminum hubs. Not the +3mm. The regular old standard height is what I am looking for. Is it tlr334014?
Yes those should be the ones.

http://www.tlracing.com/Products/Def...odID=TLR334014
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Old 12-06-2016, 12:57 PM   #3874
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thanks. I did not know if there were newer ones or if it was still these
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Old 12-06-2016, 01:02 PM   #3875
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thanks. I did not know if there were newer ones or if it was still these
It doesn't say anything about them being +3mm.

Theses are the +3mm
https://www.amainhobbies.com/team-lo...334037/p495526
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Old 12-07-2016, 08:40 AM   #3876
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Default camber at c-hub

Quote:
Camber Link Height:
Altering the camber link’s height (position vertically on the tower or occasionally on the hub) changes the vehicle’s roll center. This adjustment is most often tuned on the rear of the vehicle. Technically speaking, roll center is defined by the SAE as “the point in the transverse vertical plane though any pair of wheel centers at which lateral forces may be applied to the sprung mass without producing suspension roll.” ---- In other words: Think of roll center more simply as the point around which the vehicle’s chassis rolls in a corner.

So how do we apply roll center to vehicle tuning? All things being equal, when you move the camber link up the tower, the roll center is moved lower on the vehicle. When the link is moved down on the tower, the roll center is raised. In general, a high roll center (lower on the tower) is better for slippery or bumpy tracks because when you move the roll center really far from the ground level in either direction you introduce jacking, which messes with the ride height of the car, and you have a track width change that can either help or hurt your cornering performance.

For smoother high speed tracks, a low roll center helps decrease roll, and decrease weight transfer from left to right in a left hand turn and reduces the “tippy” roll-over feeling a car may get in high speed corners on a high traction track. Steering into the corner is increased as the car will “bite” more going in, but the vehicle will feel more stable coming out of the corner.

You can tune your over/understeer characteristic with roll center. Raising the roll center on the front or rear will make that end wash out first. So raising the rear will wash out the rear and make the car looser. Raising the front roll center will wash out the front first and make the car push.

I've been looking for another explanation of the camber link height at the C-HUB, but I cannot find one. Googled it and looked her at the camber link tuning guide. Anyway. I have the schelle camber block on my 3.0 along with the stock c-hub.

1. When one raises the ballstud height at the c-hub, is it the same effect as at the tower camber block? how is it different?
2. I assume this effect is the same on the front of the car?

thank u!
per schelle racing:
*Standard height with 0 washers between upper and base is equal to the "-1" position using TLR kit inserts.
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Old 12-07-2016, 08:47 AM   #3877
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I don't think you absolutely need a short servo, it depends on what electronics you use and how you position them. I run my Sanwa receiver and LRP flow "inline" - so I have to use a short servo to position them this way. If I placed them side by side in the chassis I could run a standard sized servo. Just depends on your preference.

As far as servo horns go, I don't think you will have any problem finding out which one to use. I would find the servo you want first and then go from there. I have used Futaba, Spektrum, and Airtronics without any issues. I'm currently using a Spektrum 6240 and really like it. As for shims, I think you want to shim so the servo link is parallel to the rack. I have mine set this way and have no issues.
Thanks for the info bought a savox sc-1257tg but still confused on the shimming of it, the 22 2.0 doc has 0mm for savox but I know I had to use some for the low-profile one in my lads car, will try your method.

Just don't want to have to keep removing it to add shims
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Old 12-07-2016, 09:54 AM   #3878
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Question, I was looking at the Spektrum S6270 servo. It's very fast and good torque. I will be racing, but the buggy is relatively light. I am wondering if this is overkill?

Specifications:
Size Category: Standard
Type: Digital
Application: Surface
Torque: 174/152/124 oz-in (12.5/10.9/8.92 kg-cm) @ 8.4/7.4/6.0V
Speed: .05/.06/.07 sec. @ 8.4/7.4/6.0V
Length: 1.61 in (41mm)
Width: 0.82 in (20.9mm)
Height: 1.06 in (26.7mm)
Weight: 42g
Bushing Or Bearing: Bearing
Bearing: Dual
Motor Type: Coreless
Connector Type: Z-connector
Gear Type: Metal
Gear Material: Metal
Voltage: 4.8 - 8.4V

Thank you.
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Old 12-07-2016, 09:59 AM   #3879
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBR_Frank View Post
Question, I was looking at the Spektrum S6270 servo. It's very fast and good torque. I will be racing, but the buggy is relatively light. I am wondering if this is overkill?

Specifications:
Size Category: Standard
Type: Digital
Application: Surface
Torque: 174/152/124 oz-in (12.5/10.9/8.92 kg-cm) @ 8.4/7.4/6.0V
Speed: .05/.06/.07 sec. @ 8.4/7.4/6.0V
Length: 1.61 in (41mm)
Width: 0.82 in (20.9mm)
Height: 1.06 in (26.7mm)
Weight: 42g
Bushing Or Bearing: Bearing
Bearing: Dual
Motor Type: Coreless
Connector Type: Z-connector
Gear Type: Metal
Gear Material: Metal
Voltage: 4.8 - 8.4V

Thank you.
No it isn't overkill. The servo should be perfect in a 22 3.0.
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Old 12-07-2016, 10:04 AM   #3880
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No it isn't overkill. The servo should be perfect in a 22 3.0.
Awesome, thank you!
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Old 12-07-2016, 10:48 AM   #3881
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Default Lay down transmission conversion

Hey there, new to this thread. Let me know if I should be posting this somewhere else. I currently run an original TLR 22. I'm looking at getting a new 2wd buggy and am weighing the 22 3.0 or the B6D. My local track said either way, guys have been having a lot of success with the lay down transmission on their buggies. It's $28 to do this to the B6D, but it's $180 for the 22 3.0. Why so much? Is the conversion needed, is there benefit to it? Any insight on if TLR will get more competitive on the price? Thanks for any insight you may have.
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Old 12-07-2016, 01:27 PM   #3882
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Originally Posted by daz_75 View Post
Thanks for the info bought a savox sc-1257tg but still confused on the shimming of it, the 22 2.0 doc has 0mm for savox but I know I had to use some for the low-profile one in my lads car, will try your method.

Just don't want to have to keep removing it to add shims
The manual is a starting point, there are so many different kinds of servos now they can't cover all of them. But the goal with the servo is to have it positioned so the link is parallel to the rack. You may want to check out Frank Root's Facebook Live 22 3.0 Spec build...a lot of areas on that kit are just like the regular 3.0, he goes into good detail while building. I watched it and picked up a few tips for myself. It may help visualize some of what's going on.
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Old 12-07-2016, 01:31 PM   #3883
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Ok thanks will take a look
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Old 12-07-2016, 01:47 PM   #3884
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Originally Posted by MNiceGuy View Post
22 3.0 Kit: $299.99
New Laydown Kit (338005): $139.99
+3.5 Laydown Transmission: $71.99
+3mm Rear Hub: $31.99

TOTAL: $543.96
Man... $543 when a B6 can be had standup or laydown for ~$300. This has been a problem across TLR's whole history, going back to the original JRX2. Just put the correct configuration into a finished kit, already!
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Old 12-07-2016, 03:13 PM   #3885
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Gathering my goodies to build up a 22 3.0SR, anyone know the difference between the Tekin Gen3 17.5 and 17.5rpm?
Tekin website says the RPM is ideal for "1/12 touring car", but I see people touting its superior performance in spec buggy over the standard 17.5.
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