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Old 08-23-2016, 10:37 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Official TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

K.King
Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 11-17-2016, 05:57 PM   #3766
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Wait a minute... those look like they've got trailing inserts (ala AE B5/B5M).
Sure does.....I will reserve judgement until I see/hear more, but I had a B5, B5M and a T5M and HATED those inserts...bearings never operated as smoothly as they should have. I glued my inserts and tried upgrading my bearings and was never happy with the results. Perhaps TLR will get it right and have tighter tolerances and a precise fit. I suppose we will find out soon enough.
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Old 11-17-2016, 08:03 PM   #3767
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SO how good does the car feel with dirt laydown tranny on clay? Is the upgrade kit worth getting running on clay not carpet.
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Old 11-17-2016, 08:38 PM   #3768
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SR. It doesn't make a whole bunch of sense for current 3.0 owners to switch, but for a newcomer, it's only a $30 difference. You'll likely race in stock 17.5 to start if you're new to racing, and it'll cost at least 3x that amount to get the older 3.0 drivetrain to match the SR. Might as well invest in a "modded" car so you won't have any excuses, and then focus on driving.
True...good points. But with everyone going cray over laydown transmissions, I'm hesitant to choose the 3.0 over the B6 or the RB6.6. The 22 3.0 is the car I want, but its hard to justify the cost to convert it when its standard in the other cars out of the gate for a little more money. People are saying they have to adjust their driving style from mid-motor to lay down, since I'm new, shouldnt I just start with lay down for the foundation?
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Old 11-18-2016, 07:36 AM   #3769
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True...good points. But with everyone going cray over laydown transmissions, I'm hesitant to choose the 3.0 over the B6 or the RB6.6. The 22 3.0 is the car I want, but its hard to justify the cost to convert it when its standard in the other cars out of the gate for a little more money. People are saying they have to adjust their driving style from mid-motor to lay down, since I'm new, shouldnt I just start with lay down for the foundation?
Being new you need the easiest car to drive. This is the 22 3.0. Laydowns are not for beginners. They require you to really be on the wheel and consistent to get the gainz. The stand up 22 3.0 is plenty capable.

I just got back into the hobby when the 3.0 came out last year. I never ran buggy back in the 2000's because it was just so hard to drive compared to my losi stadium truck. Were talking XXXT CR and XXX days. First time on the track with the 22 3.0 it was unbelievable.

The car is so stable so easy to drive it makes you fast. Realize though you will need time. No kit is going to make a difference if you do not have that basic seat of the pants feel that you need to race.
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Old 11-18-2016, 11:13 AM   #3770
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True...good points. But with everyone going cray over laydown transmissions, I'm hesitant to choose the 3.0 over the B6 or the RB6.6. The 22 3.0 is the car I want, but its hard to justify the cost to convert it when its standard in the other cars out of the gate for a little more money. People are saying they have to adjust their driving style from mid-motor to lay down, since I'm new, shouldnt I just start with lay down for the foundation?
Get the 22 3.0. For any dirt or clay, that is the way most club racers should go most of the time. Only on a carpet track would I say the beginner may actually see benefit from the laydown car.
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Old 11-18-2016, 11:37 AM   #3771
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that's the thing...there are two tracks around me, one clay, one carpet...so if the standup 3-gear will handle the clay, will I be just as fine with it on carpet? will it make that much difference for a beginner or should I not worry at this point?
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Old 11-18-2016, 12:27 PM   #3772
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When you folks are running short VLA, do you put your screws in the spindle carrier to the inside hole, like the manual suggests, or to the outside hole?

I was looking at the photos of the new 22 SCT 3.0 and in the photos it is running short VLA but the screw going into the spindle carrier is on the outside, not the inside.
Bueller?........Bueller?
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Old 11-18-2016, 01:14 PM   #3773
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Bueller?........Bueller?
As shown in the manuals -

Short VLA = inside hole caster block and inside hole arm.
Long VLA = outside holes caster block and outside hole arm.
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Old 11-18-2016, 09:06 PM   #3774
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Frank does a great job here. Please research you question a little tiny bit before posting. Lets keep this a informative site.
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Old 11-19-2016, 05:48 AM   #3775
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Need advice. About to do a diff rebuild. Which is the best to get So many choices and has anyone like the schelle thrust set or mip set or stay with the Losi version
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Old 11-19-2016, 11:40 AM   #3776
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Need advice. About to do a diff rebuild. Which is the best to get So many choices and has anyone like the schelle thrust set or mip set or stay with the Losi version
I've had my best luck with either TLR diff componets or Schelle. I just built a new diff the other day for my laydown car with schelle caged thrust and their diff balls. Came out really smooth.
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Old 11-19-2016, 05:17 PM   #3777
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Frank or anyone, first let me say I have quite a bit invested in tlr. I have the 22-4 2.0, 22t 2.0 and 22 3.0 with the laydown and dirt tranny. I will also say I have another laydown car as well, a xray xb2 carpet car. Now I don't race on carpet, run on medium bite clay. I'm really struggling with the 3.0 laydown. I love the steering the car has and the way it rotates. But the car just feels nervous and loose. Setup I have now is Gray associated front spring, Lf white rear spring. 1.6 pistons fron and 1.7 rear, 32.5 front oil, 30 rear to start. The xray car to me is much more planted and stable and has about the same amount of steering as the 3.0. So yeah I'm used to driving a laydown car. I want the losi to work. I don't like running mixed brands. Other losi guys at my track are running stand up and laydown and a losi laydown won today. I tried some suggestions they suggested and it just didn't seem to help. Now I will say my rear diff is pretty tight, not sure of that has anything to do with it. One thing that was suggested I have not tried yet is going to a 2 tooth smaller spur gear to get the motor back just a tick, and running the servo on the back of the aluminum servo mounts.
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Old 11-19-2016, 07:07 PM   #3778
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Frank or anyone, first let me say I have quite a bit invested in tlr. I have the 22-4 2.0, 22t 2.0 and 22 3.0 with the laydown and dirt tranny. I will also say I have another laydown car as well, a xray xb2 carpet car. Now I don't race on carpet, run on medium bite clay. I'm really struggling with the 3.0 laydown. I love the steering the car has and the way it rotates. But the car just feels nervous and loose. Setup I have now is Gray associated front spring, Lf white rear spring. 1.6 pistons fron and 1.7 rear, 32.5 front oil, 30 rear to start. The xray car to me is much more planted and stable and has about the same amount of steering as the 3.0. So yeah I'm used to driving a laydown car. I want the losi to work. I don't like running mixed brands. Other losi guys at my track are running stand up and laydown and a losi laydown won today. I tried some suggestions they suggested and it just didn't seem to help. Now I will say my rear diff is pretty tight, not sure of that has anything to do with it. One thing that was suggested I have not tried yet is going to a 2 tooth smaller spur gear to get the motor back just a tick, and running the servo on the back of the aluminum servo mounts.
I'm going to assume you are still at 3 toe/ 2 antisquat. Somethings I would try would be possibly 3.5 toe and 1.5 antisquat. I found that gave me the best balance for myself on a medium bite indoor track. Your springs and oil seem right so it should be a couple minor adjustments. Another thing to try would be going to the "0" or "+1" setting on the rear ball stud mount.
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Old 11-19-2016, 08:28 PM   #3779
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I can't get my 3.0 to lower. I run on carpet with small jumps, and I traction roll real bad. My ride hight is about 24 and I can't get it to lower. I'm running 35wt and 30 oil in the rear, shock collars all the way up, red spring front and rear. Shock built dead. I put a large square pack in and it lowered some but not enough. Another local racer has his lower than mine and I showed him. He can't figure it out either. Help
So any takers?
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Old 11-19-2016, 09:16 PM   #3780
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Frank, will the new TLR332064 Narrow Gears Set fit on the standard 3.0 buggy with the stand up tranny? Or are they designed for the new 3.0 SR buggy's new diff? From the pic it would appear to be a drop in fit with all the original hardware.....
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