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Old 08-23-2016, 10:37 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Official TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

K.King
Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 06-03-2016, 04:24 AM   #3031
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Default +3 rear hubs/laydown

Forgive the newb question -

If you're running a laydown, should the +3 rear hubs only be used if you're running on carpet or high bite? What, exactly, is supposed to be the benefit of using them over the standard hubs? I have the exotek, the +3 hubs, the 67mm bones (and axle shim) to install - but I will be running mostly indoor on dirt. Should I stick to the standard hubs? I'm still learning about the effects of ride height and droop, etc...so I appreciate the constructive advice.
Thanks
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Old 06-03-2016, 07:07 AM   #3032
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Originally Posted by BK24 View Post
Forgive the newb question -

If you're running a laydown, should the +3 rear hubs only be used if you're running on carpet or high bite? What, exactly, is supposed to be the benefit of using them over the standard hubs? I have the exotek, the +3 hubs, the 67mm bones (and axle shim) to install - but I will be running mostly indoor on dirt. Should I stick to the standard hubs? I'm still learning about the effects of ride height and droop, etc...so I appreciate the constructive advice.
Thanks

The +3 allow you to run at a low ride height without bone plunge affecting the car.
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Old 06-03-2016, 07:13 AM   #3033
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The +3 allow you to run at a low ride height without bone plunge affecting the car.
Thanks. So if one doesn't necessarily need/want a low ride height, e.g. dirt, then there is little point or benefit in running them?
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Old 06-03-2016, 07:28 AM   #3034
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Thanks. So if one doesn't necessarily need/want a low ride height, e.g. dirt, then there is little point or benefit in running them?
I ran the laydown at 22/21 and even 20/20. I did not try it any higher than that, as I would say it's really designed for the 20mm range of heights, or even lower.

Now with the hubs, if you don't run them with the 3.5mm rear case you are going to induce a ton less bone plunge which will have an affect on handling. I would really match up the heights on the tranny case and hubs for optimal dogbone angle and plunge.

Dirt tranny you use standard hubs
Standard 3.5mm tranny you run the +3 aluminum hubs
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Old 06-03-2016, 08:31 AM   #3035
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Apologize for the confusion, but what is the 3.5mm rear case?

I'm planning to run the exotek laydown...
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Old 06-03-2016, 08:37 AM   #3036
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Originally Posted by BK24 View Post
Apologize for the confusion, but what is the 3.5mm rear case?

I'm planning to run the exotek laydown...
Yeah I don't know how it compares to the TLR one.
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Old 06-03-2016, 10:47 AM   #3037
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That's a good question. I am planning on running the Exotek as well. I also plan on modifying the front end Like Frank showed in his new video. Flipping the kick plate. Not sure I need the +3mm hubs for the Exotek. Anyone installed the Exotek and are there any other tricks, mods that need to be done when using it?
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Old 06-03-2016, 02:57 PM   #3038
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Does anyone know if MIP13190 will fit? I like the aluminum driveshafts from MIP but i dont want to deal with pucks. It looks like these may be 3mm longer than the stock 22 3.0 driveshafts. Thanks for any help!
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Old 06-03-2016, 03:56 PM   #3039
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That's a good question. I am planning on running the Exotek as well. I also plan on modifying the front end Like Frank showed in his new video. Flipping the kick plate. Not sure I need the +3mm hubs for the Exotek. Anyone installed the Exotek and are there any other tricks, mods that need to be done when using it?
Exotek designed the tranny for the stock hubs. The diff is raised slightly for running at lower ride height. So My guess and from what I have seen in running It. The exotek would be closer to the TLR dirt laydown tranny rather then the one in the laydown kit. So you may see better performance from regular roll centers. Some one did post in a previous post that they e-mailed Exotek and they said that the +3 hubs would work with their tranny.

As far as tricks to installing it make sure and get you a 90 degree counter sink bit. I got one off Amazon for like $7. And take off a little and test fit your screw so you don't remove to much material
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Old 06-03-2016, 06:39 PM   #3040
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I've got a buddy who just built his buggy and is having issues with his motor sensor wire. Can anyone running Team Orion's R10 ESC with their 17.5T motor please post what length sensor wire they are using? Also, how should he be routing his wire? Post a pic if possible, thanks.
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Old 06-04-2016, 03:32 AM   #3041
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I'm running TQ flat wire 150mm length in the milled slot under the battery. Long enough form my HW 3.1 to my Trinity 24k.
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Old 06-04-2016, 04:56 AM   #3042
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I cant remember how long my wire is but i route it through the milled out wire channel and underneath the motor and around to the sensor plug
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:09 PM   #3043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Trimmings View Post
Right now it's the cost that kept me from getting into laydown and I'm sure have kept others. You can get by with 1 chassis....there are guys drilling the std chassis for the laydown trans, it's not hard. The machined $70 tranny case as well. If you are going to run a 22 3.0 laydown on dirt it's $330 for the kit, $170 for the laydown and another $70 for the dirt tranny case. Ridiculous.
I have to imagine something is in the works to make the cost reasonable for the guy that's deciding whether to pick up a B6, XB2 Carpet, or a 22 3.0 with the laydown. Not many would consider the 22 very long when they realize it would be $570 vs the $309 or $350 for the AE or X-Ray, but the current conversion isn't really aimed at these folks. It's aimed at people that already own a 22 3.0, $180 for the conversion is cheaper than a new kit just to get a laydown setup.

The machined stuff (expensive, but can get to market quickly) and laydown kit itself (very limited quantity sold, already backordered for a month) are clearly aimed at at least getting something out there for the hardcore racers that might have been eyeing up other cars. I was hesitant to spend $180 on a tuning option that may or may not be better for the med-high bite clay that I run on 99% of the time, but now that a few other local racers have been winning races and throwing down blistering hot laps with the laydown I'll be happy to plunk my money down when they show up again at the LHS.

I would expect a 22 3.0 Laydown Edition as well as an updated laydown conversion kit that includes molded gearboxes for both the higher and lower diff positions, but I wouldn't really expect either until around September given the time requirements for creating the new molds and preparing to launch a new kit. The goal from the Horizon crew is likely to get them out the door around the time that indoor season starts again in NA, which is around October/November.

If we're lucky, maybe we'll see a new car before winter that includes all of the parts for laydown, 3-gear mid-motor, and 4-gear mid-motor... maybe we should call it the 23, if we now have 3 motor/transmission options?
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:41 PM   #3044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bonhomme View Post
I've got a buddy who just built his buggy and is having issues with his motor sensor wire. Can anyone running Team Orion's R10 ESC with their 17.5T motor please post what length sensor wire they are using? Also, how should he be routing his wire? Post a pic if possible, thanks.
I just run mine down the middle in the channel not sure on the length of wire

Last edited by Matt M.; 03-11-2017 at 03:28 AM.
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:47 PM   #3045
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Originally Posted by b1narych0ice View Post
I have to imagine something is in the works to make the cost reasonable for the guy that's deciding whether to pick up a B6, XB2 Carpet, or a 22 3.0 with the laydown. Not many would consider the 22 very long when they realize it would be $570 vs the $309 or $350 for the AE or X-Ray, but the current conversion isn't really aimed at these folks. It's aimed at people that already own a 22 3.0, $180 for the conversion is cheaper than a new kit just to get a laydown setup.

The machined stuff (expensive, but can get to market quickly) and laydown kit itself (very limited quantity sold, already backordered for a month) are clearly aimed at at least getting something out there for the hardcore racers that might have been eyeing up other cars. I was hesitant to spend $180 on a tuning option that may or may not be better for the med-high bite clay that I run on 99% of the time, but now that a few other local racers have been winning races and throwing down blistering hot laps with the laydown I'll be happy to plunk my money down when they show up again at the LHS.

I would expect a 22 3.0 Laydown Edition as well as an updated laydown conversion kit that includes molded gearboxes for both the higher and lower diff positions, but I wouldn't really expect either until around September given the time requirements for creating the new molds and preparing to launch a new kit. The goal from the Horizon crew is likely to get them out the door around the time that indoor season starts again in NA, which is around October/November.

If we're lucky, maybe we'll see a new car before winter that includes all of the parts for laydown, 3-gear mid-motor, and 4-gear mid-motor... maybe we should call it the 23, if we now have 3 motor/transmission options?
Technically we have 4 options

4 gear
3 gear
3 gear laydown
3 gear dirt laydown
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