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Old 08-23-2016, 10:37 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Official TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

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Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 06-01-2016, 12:45 PM   #3016
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There are many other cars built for carpet. After AE bowed to the 6%ers out there I guess everybody else expects every other company to do the same thing. I am guessing here. So now every other company HAS to come out with a dirt car and a carpet car, ala X-Ray/AE/Yokomo...
Sworkz as well as HB have track specific cars. (HB not out yet, shocker)
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Old 06-01-2016, 01:00 PM   #3017
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looks like laydown is the new way to go. I am in the market for a new buggy, probably for 22 3.0; i guess i will wait for 4.0 ! Feeling that it will be out soon; especially with the new release from their major competitor, What do you think?
Maybe a combo pack but a 4.0...how about a 22 3.0L instead.

Besides, no TLR Representative will talk about future releases.
Anything that does not contain an official press release is considered a rumor.
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Old 06-01-2016, 01:05 PM   #3018
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The b5m is not that old either and they are already releasing the b6 and b6d so TLR will have to come out with a new kit to help keep up in the market
B5M was announced according to RCTech late Dec 2013. that makes the car easily 2 years old which is pretty standard for the life of a car in this industry.

Official Team Associated RC10 B5m Mid-Motor Thread

TLR 3.0 offical thread was started almost two years later in Nov of 2015

Official TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!

there are other more recent versions of the B5M with Light and CE additions and the such but 22 3.0 is a new car.
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Old 06-01-2016, 01:19 PM   #3019
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I get that TLR missed the 'Laydown' trend. I understand the time it takes to produce a molded part vs a machined part....also the price of a molded vs machined delrin is significant. When the competition now has a car that can be changed from laydown to standup 3 gear for about $30 and a few minutes of time you hope that the company you currently support is working on something to provide their loyal customers with. A single chassis that accepts either would be great as well as a gear case that's molded vs machined would greatly reduce the cost for those that want the laydown option. Right now the most cost effective way is from Exotek.

Either way...you won't be getting any spy shots or info from anybody at TLR until the time of release....if they are working anything...
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Old 06-01-2016, 02:08 PM   #3020
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I have both the 3.0 standard and the 3.0 laydown chassis plates laying in front of me. It appears that with two more holes in the laydown chassis plate, it could accommodate both gearbox styles. Not sure why TLR decided not to drill those holes in the new laydown chassis so we could change back more easily.

There might be more changes than that though. Perhaps Frank could chime in.
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Old 06-01-2016, 05:46 PM   #3021
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Originally Posted by gte024h View Post
I have both the 3.0 standard and the 3.0 laydown chassis plates laying in front of me. It appears that with two more holes in the laydown chassis plate, it could accommodate both gearbox styles. Not sure why TLR decided not to drill those holes in the new laydown chassis so we could change back more easily.

There might be more changes than that though. Perhaps Frank could chime in.
You are correct. Drilled my laydown chassis for the standard transmission. A couple of 1mm shims under the waterfall for battery clearance and 5 minute swap with a power driver. Used the standard chassis as a template to drill the holes for the waterfall.
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Old 06-01-2016, 07:56 PM   #3022
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Although I believe the laydown will offer a small advantage on carpet and Astro, I don't think it's deathly necessary. I happily run at the front of the field with the stock gearbox and I don't think we're that much off the pass of the international guys.

In saying that, I would still like to see Losi offer a complete laydown kit
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Old 06-01-2016, 08:31 PM   #3023
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Frank, is it correct to say that the TLR guys prefer the laydown over the standard for OCRC? I saw one of your younger team mates the other day and wanted to ask him, but thought better of it - it looked like he was doing lots of setup testing.

Anyway, what do you think and when can I try your laydown car at OCRC?
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Old 06-01-2016, 08:41 PM   #3024
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Frank,

i amlookng at your stock nats setup sheat, it calls for 31.xx shock length, are you simply unscrewing the bottom eyelet 3-4 turns out, or running a different eyelet...or, a longer shock shaft??
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Old 06-02-2016, 07:55 PM   #3025
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Unscrewing eyelet.
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Old 06-02-2016, 08:23 PM   #3026
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Originally Posted by Matt Trimmings View Post
I get that TLR missed the 'Laydown' trend. I understand the time it takes to produce a molded part vs a machined part....also the price of a molded vs machined delrin is significant. When the competition now has a car that can be changed from laydown to standup 3 gear for about $30 and a few minutes of time you hope that the company you currently support is working on something to provide their loyal customers with. A single chassis that accepts either would be great as well as a gear case that's molded vs machined would greatly reduce the cost for those that want the laydown option. Right now the most cost effective way is from Exotek.

Either way...you won't be getting any spy shots or info from anybody at TLR until the time of release....if they are working anything...
It remains to be seen to know if a convertible car is the way to go as well. The biggest thing I'm noticing is how the outdrive height is being adjusted on the 3.0 to be more dirt friendly to allow higher ride heights. The industry is really new to laydown, and you can never expect something to take off until after it's released. I think you will see laydown evolve even more as guys learn how to make it better, and THEN you will see things happen. Right now you have different tranny cases for different conditions.

Plus, what about running a standard car with a HRC front and rear block? I bet that would work very well also.
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Old 06-02-2016, 08:37 PM   #3027
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I ran the HRC blocks front and rear on slicks just before the laydown car. It was really good unfortunately I didn't get as much time on it as hoped, but with the time I had it was very promising. A lot of corner speed.
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Old 06-02-2016, 09:01 PM   #3028
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It remains to be seen to know if a convertible car is the way to go as well. The biggest thing I'm noticing is how the outdrive height is being adjusted on the 3.0 to be more dirt friendly to allow higher ride heights. The industry is really new to laydown, and you can never expect something to take off until after it's released. I think you will see laydown evolve even more as guys learn how to make it better, and THEN you will see things happen. Right now you have different tranny cases for different conditions.
Right now it's the cost that kept me from getting into laydown and I'm sure have kept others. You can get by with 1 chassis....there are guys drilling the std chassis for the laydown trans, it's not hard. The machined $70 tranny case as well. If you are going to run a 22 3.0 laydown on dirt it's $330 for the kit, $170 for the laydown and another $70 for the dirt tranny case. Ridiculous.
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Old 06-02-2016, 09:39 PM   #3029
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The exotek is the most affordable option currently. And you dont need to buy an extra dirt case the carpet one will work fine... the exotek case is the same as the tlr dirt laydown for the most part anyways.

Of course if you dont have access to a drill press and countersink bits the exotek is going to not work so well for you
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Old 06-02-2016, 10:36 PM   #3030
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I just put the dirt tranny in. Had to adjust a lot of my setup accordingly mainly front end and droop. I really like the standard laydown but I want to see what this does with more ride height to use. Dustin said he runs the dirt case with standard droop and 23mm.

Last edited by K_King; 06-03-2016 at 07:07 AM.
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