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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Official TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

K.King
Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 05-13-2016, 11:51 AM   #2836
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Thinking about taking the plunge on this laydown hype. However, having trouble deciding between the Exotek vs. TLR conversion. All things being equal, Iíd probably choose the TLR without batting an eye Ė I like supporting Frank and the team. However, all things arenít equal, considering one is twice the price of the other. And, I like how the Exotek uses the same chassis for both laydown and standard (though some could argue the opposite, Iím sure.)

To the point Ė is there a compelling reason to choose the TLR over the Exotek, from a pure performance standpoint? Anyone had the chance to try both? I like some of the extras TLR includes, no doubt. Just canít decide if itís worth the extra $$$.
I cannot say anything about the Exotek as I have not tried it but Exotek typically makes a great product so take that at that.

however, the TLR laydown conversion is a full conversion. You get a chassis with an insertable weight plate, the tranny and all the parts to put that in, and the rear hubs which are huge to go with the tranny. So, even if you buy the exotek and the hubs, you are now much closer to the whole conversion price. just my .02.
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Old 05-13-2016, 12:15 PM   #2837
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I cannot say anything about the Exotek as I have not tried it but Exotek typically makes a great product so take that at that.

however, the TLR laydown conversion is a full conversion. You get a chassis with an insertable weight plate, the tranny and all the parts to put that in, and the rear hubs which are huge to go with the tranny. So, even if you buy the exotek and the hubs, you are now much closer to the whole conversion price. just my .02.
Thanks Ryan, that's helpful. The full conversion part of it is an important consideration. For me, I'm unsure whether I actually want/need a "full conversion," considering I run mainly on a medium-bite indoor dirt/clay (with a large, outdoor, loose dirt in summer an option as well - laydown would NOT work for this track.) I kinda want to dip my toe in the laydown waters, but not sure it's something I'll necessarily stick to permanently because of the surfaces I run on. I'm kind of a tweener (like I suspect many are.) You might say a laydown isn't right for me in the first place - and that may be true, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun to try.

Which brings me to a (hypothetical) follow-up question - are the +3 rear hubs necessary with the exotek transmission to make the roll centers correct, etc...or am I now mixing and matching too many different parts together?

BTW, I'm sure both products are excellent and made by great companies. Thanks for the insight.
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Old 05-13-2016, 12:39 PM   #2838
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I'm in a similar place and considering the Exotek transmission as I'm a big fan of the heat dissipation of the alloy tranny case. Probably pair it with those hubs.

That means I'll miss out on the chassis that plays oh so nicely with the weight plate as well as that weight plate. Alloy idler too I guess?

Good question BK24 and thanks for responding Dunford.
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Old 05-13-2016, 12:51 PM   #2839
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I was in the same dilemma, Exotek Or Tlr. I went with the Exotek so I could use one car and it is a very well finished gearbox easy to mount with the supplied template and a $13.00 set of 90 degree countersink bits off of amazon. I have not yet to try it but I cant wait to see how it works.
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Old 05-13-2016, 08:49 PM   #2840
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Originally Posted by BK24 View Post
Thanks Ryan, that's helpful. The full conversion part of it is an important consideration. For me, I'm unsure whether I actually want/need a "full conversion," considering I run mainly on a medium-bite indoor dirt/clay (with a large, outdoor, loose dirt in summer an option as well - laydown would NOT work for this track.) I kinda want to dip my toe in the laydown waters, but not sure it's something I'll necessarily stick to permanently because of the surfaces I run on. I'm kind of a tweener (like I suspect many are.) You might say a laydown isn't right for me in the first place - and that may be true, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun to try.

Which brings me to a (hypothetical) follow-up question - are the +3 rear hubs necessary with the exotek transmission to make the roll centers correct, etc...or am I now mixing and matching too many different parts together?

BTW, I'm sure both products are excellent and made by great companies. Thanks for the insight.
Can't say much for the Exotek, but I bought the TLR kit today, and it is AWESOME!!! I ran the Wednesday night race with my stock at OCRC, ran great handled great. But after talking to a couple of team drivers I spent the $$ for the TLR lay down kit, money well spent. The car litterly jumps from a stand still, carries corner speed better, and the car handles great. I was skeptical ,but not anymore.
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Old 05-14-2016, 11:55 PM   #2841
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I run the exotek with the standard hubs and the car is really good, just my $.02
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Old 05-15-2016, 12:48 AM   #2842
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After reading Frank's posts about minimum ride height the other day I decided to lift my car up to them and see how things went (I also changed my setup slightly to Frank's last OCRC setup before going laydown however mine was pretty much the same already). I was skeptical as we run on a super high bite carpet and it looked like I was about to go rock crawling! However last night we had our monthly club night and I am happy to say it ran like a charm. I did have a couple tip overs landing off a jump that goes straight into a turn but other than that I was pleasantly surprised. To top it off, after qualifying second in the a main and having a terrible start in the final, I managed to fight back through the field and take the win!
P.S. still running the stock gearbox.
P.P.S I also noticed it lifting the inside rear a lot mid corner which it never use to do so some refinement still needed, but a good start none the less.
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Old 05-15-2016, 05:53 PM   #2843
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Can anyone tell me what the rear adjuster does 0 -1 and +1 will do when you change them out? Also a shorter camber link in the rear will make the car rotate faster?
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Old 05-15-2016, 06:06 PM   #2844
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The insert your talking about adjust the height of the ball stud, roll center. The lenght of the link adjusts the camber gain, yes it affects the rotation but it is a mm car and really shouldn't be thought of as rotation but more so how much grip the rear generates as the chassis rolls thru the corner.
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Old 05-15-2016, 08:05 PM   #2845
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Can anyone tell me what the rear adjuster does 0 -1 and +1 will do when you change them out? Also a shorter camber link in the rear will make the car rotate faster?
The inserts adjust the rear roll center. Going to the "0" insert or "+1" on the rear link lowers the rear roll center not allowing the car to rotate as easily. In most circumstances it is a feel thing and never hurts to try both sides of the variable to see what you prefer. For myself personally I always run "1" down on my standard car and have really liked "1" up with my laydown car.

Lastly, a shorter rear link should free up the car in the corner especially on entry.
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Old 05-15-2016, 08:07 PM   #2846
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Can anyone tell me what the rear adjuster does 0 -1 and +1 will do when you change them out? Also a shorter camber link in the rear will make the car rotate faster?
-1 = Highest Roll Center; rear will stay flatter through corners (less grip)
0 = Lower Roll Center; car will roll over more in the rear, generating more grip
+1 = Lowest Roll Center; car will roll over the most, generates the most grip but can feel pretty lazy.
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Old 05-15-2016, 10:49 PM   #2847
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I decided to run the jconcepts spring nats this year, my first major race. Stock buggy was stacked, 63 entries with drivers in the b to d mains all within a couple seconds of eachother. I had a bad spot of luck at the start of the D main and ended up driving way too hard afterwards. After getting lapped by 1st and second i stayed with second and was actually a little faster but kept having to check up so i didnt get too far. The car was fantastic all weekend. I ran dakotah phends reedy race setup but i changed to low frequency pink rear springs and orange fronts. Stock pistons and stock oils. I also tryed jason snyders tires and i really like them

I ran my exotek laydown transmission on my mod buggy in practice this morning. It made a Massive difference. The car was wicked fast through the corners. I ran stock all weekend with my regular 3 gear and im now considering buying a second exotek trans for my stock car.

8 of the 10 cars in the mod buggy amain ran laydowns.

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Old 05-16-2016, 03:07 AM   #2848
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it's kinda funny how you are converting the 3.0 to laydown.

just go back and run your 2.0 !
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Old 05-16-2016, 10:46 AM   #2849
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Originally Posted by K_King View Post
-1 = Highest Roll Center; rear will stay flatter through corners (less grip)
0 = Lower Roll Center; car will roll over more in the rear, generating more grip
+1 = Lowest Roll Center; car will roll over the most, generates the most grip but can feel pretty lazy.
IMO, this is backwards.
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Old 05-16-2016, 11:43 AM   #2850
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Ran the exotek laydown this weekend at the OCRC Stock Nats using Franks TLR Laydown setup as a baseline. Anyone running the Exotec on med/high bite clay its a great place to start.

Car handled way better than I was driving. Took me awhile to get used to driving it since it was so responsive. It was staggeringly planted and rock solid - only got better as traction came up. I look forward to more tuning.
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