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Old 08-23-2016, 10:37 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Official TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

K.King
Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 04-06-2016, 07:04 AM   #2551
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Also, to the person above. try going stiffer in the rear suspension softer upfront whether with springs, oil, or both.
Should I also try the long VLA or try the spring/oil first?
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Old 04-06-2016, 07:42 AM   #2552
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Should I also try the long VLA or try the spring/oil first?
i would say the issue your having sounds more related to spring/shock and weight transfer. im not sure changing the VLA's will solve your issue, it may just make your car feel a little different.

IMO always dial in your suspension first, suspension is my number one setup change, factor, whatever you want to call it.
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Old 04-06-2016, 07:56 AM   #2553
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@Frank Root

With the laydown trans, will HRC pivot blocks still be the go to for carpet applications?
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Old 04-06-2016, 09:31 AM   #2554
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@Frank Root

With the laydown trans, will HRC pivot blocks still be the go to for carpet applications?
I don't think so, the roll center has already been adjusted with the hubs.
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Old 04-06-2016, 09:37 AM   #2555
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win are the lay down kits shipping
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Old 04-06-2016, 10:10 AM   #2556
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win are the lay down kits shipping
he already said 4/14
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Old 04-06-2016, 10:11 AM   #2557
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ty
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Old 04-06-2016, 11:12 AM   #2558
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I don't think so, the roll center has already been adjusted with the hubs.
hmm, what about in the front?
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Old 04-06-2016, 11:24 AM   #2559
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hmm, what about in the front?
HRC front pivot, raise the spindles. That gets you 3mm change, same as the hubs.
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Old 04-06-2016, 12:03 PM   #2560
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Default Kyosho Springs

Who's running the Kyosho springs on their buggy? What is the main reason for switching from a TLR spring over to a Kyosho spring with relatively the same rate? What are the performance gains? I have seen numerous people switching, but want to know why?
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Old 04-06-2016, 12:43 PM   #2561
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HRC front pivot, raise the spindles. That gets you 3mm change, same as the hubs.
Frank, you're awesome my friend! Now, have you guys tested this? How have the results been on carpet? Does this seem like a nice well balanced setup? can maintain much corner speed, without sacrificing side bite or traction in general?

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Who's running the Kyosho springs on their buggy? What is the main reason for switching from a TLR spring over to a Kyosho spring with relatively the same rate? What are the performance gains? I have seen numerous people switching, but want to know why?
im curious of the same. i think its just a preference thing. i have the low frequency tlr springs and they do the trick...
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Old 04-06-2016, 01:09 PM   #2562
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Frank, you're awesome my friend! Now, have you guys tested this? How have the results been on carpet? Does this seem like a nice well balanced setup? can maintain much corner speed, without sacrificing side bite or traction in general?
We didn't decide to release because it didn't work well....
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Old 04-06-2016, 01:10 PM   #2563
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Old 04-06-2016, 01:11 PM   #2564
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We didn't decide to release because it didn't work well....
ok, so maybe having the HRC in the rear and not the front sort of stabilizes the entire car in general, but still allows for good steering and traction up front?
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Old 04-06-2016, 03:30 PM   #2565
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Who's running the Kyosho springs on their buggy? What is the main reason for switching from a TLR spring over to a Kyosho spring with relatively the same rate? What are the performance gains? I have seen numerous people switching, but want to know why?
I run both TLR and KYOSHO. My current setup is Frank Root Setup from OCRC, Front 3.15, Rear 2.00. I run TLR LF Frt Silver (3.18) actual (3.14), TLR LF Rear Grey (1.96) actual (2.00)

I only run Kyosho when I want a stiffer spring in the front. The TLR LF series only goes to 3.18, so I run Kyosho Gold (3.34) and AVID Purple (3.62).

Then you may ask why not run the TLR standard springs? Such as the TLR Black (4.10), because the actual spring rate vs. listed is way off. TLR LF springs have the best differential, but when getting to the higher pounds the Kyosho has a better differentials.

Example:
TLR Black (4.10) is (3.99) diff of (.11)
KYOSHO Gold (3.34) is (3.27) diff of (.07)
AVID Purple (3.62) is (3.51) diff of (.11)
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