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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Official TLR 22 3.0 Race Kit Thread!
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Cub86 posted the question: Hi. I'm struggling to understand the lay down situation. I run on high bite damp smooth clay and think the conversation would help on my surface but from what I'm reading I need to buy the lay down kit tlr338004. And the dirt gear case tlr332063. But do I really need both from what I've read the dirt case is 1-2mm higher anyway and u don't use the +3mm hubs or the front pivot hrc or Hrc mod. So is the dirt lay down kit tlr332063 is all that's needed to get me a lay down set up that's suited for clay With the components and car I already have. And if I only get the dirt case is there any problems that will need to be addressed IE.. bone plunge . I do know I'll need 1mm spacers on the waterfall to clear the battery. Thanks guys really trying to get my head around this.

Franks response:
Laydown Conversion will work great by itself. You run the aluminum +3mm hubs, the diff is +3.5mm, and you run the HRC front setup. Just follow a setup sheet from tlracing.com (Frank Root).

Dirt Tranny has the diff at the same height as the standard tranny case, and works with the standard plastic hubs. Both are +/- 0mm from stock. When you run this, no need to run the HRC front mod either.

I've found the stock laydown conversion parts to work great for most tracks. The dirt tranny is a great tuning option, but definitely not 'required'.

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Something I made, pretty basic. Just to give people an idea.

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Old 01-09-2016, 11:54 AM   #1486
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I'm trying to figure out my on power push problem. I'm looking for suggestions. What i plan to try, get the 0deg caster blocks, stiffer rear Springs, more anti squat, longer front links, Add a shim in the front shocks to get less droop, less toe in on the rear lengthen car length. Any other ideas?
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Old 01-09-2016, 12:01 PM   #1487
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I'm trying to figure out my on power push problem. I'm looking for suggestions. What i plan to try, get the 0deg caster blocks, stiffer rear Springs, more anti squat, longer front links, Add a shim in the front shocks to get less droop, less toe in on the rear lengthen car length. Any other ideas?
Yes, cut the list down to 3 things and try them one at a time.

I'd try front or rear links, rear toe/anti squat.
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Old 01-09-2016, 12:27 PM   #1488
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B5 wheels will NOT work, they will bind up and not turn.
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Old 01-09-2016, 01:24 PM   #1489
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I'm trying to figure out my on power push problem. I'm looking for suggestions. What i plan to try, get the 0deg caster blocks, stiffer rear Springs, more anti squat, longer front links, Add a shim in the front shocks to get less droop, less toe in on the rear lengthen car length. Any other ideas?
Start with stiffening the rear suspension (springs and shock location) and move the rear hubs to the rear (4mm spacers in front of hub). Fine tune with battery placement.
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Old 01-09-2016, 06:21 PM   #1490
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I just have to give this buggy HUGE props on being awesome right out of the box. Buggy was built box stock with no upgrades other then pink springs in the rear and was ran with box setup. With very little practice on a brand new buggy ( not broken in and on new non broken in tires) I qualified 5th out of 20 for stock 17.5 buggy and finished 2nd today. Could not be happier and highly recommend this buggy.
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Old 01-09-2016, 07:13 PM   #1491
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Cost aside, is there any benefit/difference to running the Spektrum 6270 over the 6240?
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Old 01-09-2016, 10:11 PM   #1492
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Cost aside, is there any benefit/difference to running the Spektrum 6270 over the 6240?
6240 =. 208 oz at 6.0 volts .08 speed, medium length
6270 = Short servo, HV so it will run at 6 volts/7.4 volts/ and 8.4 volts.
The higher the voltage, the faster it is. 124 oz at 6 volts, 152 oz at 7.4/
174 oz at 8.4 volts.
I run the 6240 in my 3.0 and I'm very impressed with it.
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Old 01-10-2016, 03:37 PM   #1493
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Had my first official race with the 3.0 yesterday.

About the track. Our track is an outdoor carpet track. The lay out was changed over the holidays and had some new carpet with some mixture of the old carpet. Also not all the carpet is of the same type (and color) but is pretty much all short shag like you would find in an office or commercial building. The older carpet has some mold growing in it, so when it it dry and hard that carpet is coarse and provides really good traction . But if it rains, it can be like black ice.

With that being said, we had a great start of the race with dry weather and lots of sun, but by the second qualifier, we had a good 5 minute down poor that pretty much soaked the track. (this is why we have carpet) Though the carpet did its job of soaking up the water, it still left the track fairly damp and slippery in some areas, mainly where the old carpet is still at.

On to the race. In the first Qualifier the 3.0 was planted and felt great. I had the TQ. Well that was until the next heat and an AE took it away. 2nd Qualifier for the 17t stock went the same as we were just ahead of the rain. Once again the buggy felt great and was able to improve on my time, but still shy of the TQ.

The Main event. Well that AE guy that took the TQ wasn't able to make it to the line. Don't know if there was a mechanical issue or if they were just worried about having to drive on the damp track and was worried about being to slippery. I do know that when I placed my car on the line I realized that I never adjusted my slipper to accommodate for the slippery conditions. I punched it a couple of times and thought to myself that this was not going to be fun. At the sound of the tone I just gently squeezed the throttle only going to half throttle and watch the rest of the pack behind me punch it and getting all loose. Going through turn one the back end was wanting to back out but with throttle finesse I was able to keep it in check. From that point on the race was mine. From sound of the tone to finish your lap, I was never contested. I was nearly a full lap ahead. Though the buggy was getting loose in some areas it was very predictable and so drive-able.

I guess all I am trying to say is, the car drove better then me. If I had been using my prior buggy, this story would have been more about drowning my sorrows with a 6 pack. This buggy is amazing. I just hope that TQ guy doesn't decide to abandon ship and get one too.

Also for those weight watchers, my buggy weighed in at 1529 grams. Things I added where, titanium ball studs / shock mounts, aluminum front axles / rear drive shafts / front pivot support / front camber block, Schelle slipper and a front wing. I run a Tekin RS GENII with a GEN III motor. Servo is a Hitec HS5685 . Futaba R204GF-E receiver. Battery SMC shorty.

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Old 01-10-2016, 05:33 PM   #1494
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I'm trying to figure out my on power push problem. I'm looking for suggestions. What i plan to try, get the 0deg caster blocks, stiffer rear Springs, more anti squat, longer front links, Add a shim in the front shocks to get less droop, less toe in on the rear lengthen car length. Any other ideas?
What shock package you running ? I'm running 2mm shock limiters in front 1.6 pistons all around , red fr spring , pink rear spring , shock oil is 32.5 fr, 30 rear, rear hub toward 3mm (1mm will be in front) camberlinks stock set up , but front I'm running 3.5mm , antisquat kit set up , rear toe kit set up. The biggest change was moving hubs forward, my car is set up for med traction track with two sweepers and three 180 turns. It's awesome and I think losi nailed it with this car hope it helps
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Old 01-10-2016, 06:29 PM   #1495
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Thanks for the help guys I got one coming just to do some testing .
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Old 01-10-2016, 08:33 PM   #1496
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I'm trying to figure out my on power push problem. I'm looking for suggestions. What i plan to try, get the 0deg caster blocks, stiffer rear Springs, more anti squat, longer front links, Add a shim in the front shocks to get less droop, less toe in on the rear lengthen car length. Any other ideas?
What we found at our local track (med/high grip clay) is that moving the rear camber block to the +1 position with 1-2mm under the stud really helped along with moving to long VLA.
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Old 01-11-2016, 06:35 AM   #1497
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OK guys, another question. I apologize if this has already been covered but as these threads get longer my memory gets shorter, haha! We've always been pretty decent at building shocks and I know I have read about this somewhere before but didn't really pay a lot of attention to it as it hadn't been a problem in the past but we have been building our shocks with little to no rebound but at the moment we are having a lot of negative rebound in them. As soon as we cycle the shock and check rebound when we pull the shaft out it sucks back into the shock. Not all the way but about halfish or so. I don't think that this is supposed to happen is it, and if not what are we doing wrong? The shocks are about a month old.
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Old 01-11-2016, 06:48 AM   #1498
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What we found at our local track (med/high grip clay) is that moving the rear camber block to the +1 position with 1-2mm under the stud really helped along with moving to long VLA.
Wow. That's as much as 4mm higher than kit position (& what most are running south of you @ Trackside). You're still getting good sidebite with that?
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Old 01-11-2016, 06:52 AM   #1499
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OK guys, another question. I apologize if this has already been covered but as these threads get longer my memory gets shorter, haha! We've always been pretty decent at building shocks and I know I have read about this somewhere before but didn't really pay a lot of attention to it as it hadn't been a problem in the past but we have been building our shocks with little to no rebound but at the moment we are having a lot of negative rebound in them. As soon as we cycle the shock and check rebound when we pull the shaft out it sucks back into the shock. Not all the way but about halfish or so. I don't think that this is supposed to happen is it, and if not what are we doing wrong? The shocks are about a month old.
That's normal when building emulsion shocks.
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Old 01-11-2016, 06:54 AM   #1500
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As soon as we cycle the shock and check rebound when we pull the shaft out it sucks back into the shock. Not all the way but about halfish or so. I don't think that this is supposed to happen is it, and if not what are we doing wrong? The shocks are about a month old.
I don't think you're doing anything wrong. The seal package has such low friction that any amount of pressure will move the shaft. Zero pressure in the shock is almost impossible since there has to be some amount of air to compensate for volume change (shaft). You may find that if you build with negative rebound, the shock will eventually take on a little more air to make up for it.

The only way I can see to "fix" it is to use a bladder and ventilate the cap so that the air behind it can normalize with movement.
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