22LikesTekno RC EB48.3 Thread
03-13-2017, 12:03 AM - Wikipost
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12-16-2015, 09:11 PM
#946
Tech Regular
Too funny, some times the simplest solution is the correct one. It didn't dawn on me that you didn't understand the difference in measuring ride height and droop. Ride height you adjust with collars on the shock bodies while the car is sitting on it's wheels carrying the full weight of the buggy. Droop is measured with the chassis suspended and the wheels hanging down unladen, the droop screws in the a-arms adjust the actual droop.
12-16-2015, 10:31 PM
#947
Too funny, some times the simplest solution is the correct one. It didn't dawn on me that you didn't understand the difference in measuring ride height and droop. Ride height you adjust with collars on the shock bodies while the car is sitting on it's wheels carrying the full weight of the buggy. Droop is measured with the chassis suspended and the wheels hanging down unladen, the droop screws in the a-arms adjust the actual droop.
I appreciate everyones help.
Last edited by jason07; 12-16-2015 at 10:41 PM.
12-16-2015, 11:28 PM
#948
Tech Regular
What was throwing me off is the Hudy setup station I have. It tells you to check droop with the wheels off and measure under the threaded portion of the wheel hub. You can't do this and get the proper droop settings (shock length) so I will just eliminate that extra step.
I appreciate everyones help.
I appreciate everyones help.
The actual droop reading would be a measurement of suspension travel past the point it has at ride height (fully laden suspension). I forget exactly what mine was with the Lutz setup but it was something like 24mm and 26mm.
12-16-2015, 11:37 PM
#949
It all takes some time to get your head wrapped around and there is definitely a learning curve to this whole thing. I still consider myself a novice even after several decades doing this. The Hudy setup for droop uses two aluminum 30mm blocks you place under the front and rear of the chassis and some special blocks that read the droop. It is just easier to read the eye-to-eye measurement with the chassis sitting on something to keep the arms off the ground and completely unladened. I do have the blocks and the sliding scale and it is just way easier to use calipers and measure that way. Plus, all the setup sheets on the Tekno site will use the eye-to-eye measure opposed to the actual droop reading.
The actual droop reading would be a measurement of suspension travel past the point it has at ride height (fully laden suspension). I forget exactly what mine was with the Lutz setup but it was something like 24mm and 26mm.
The actual droop reading would be a measurement of suspension travel past the point it has at ride height (fully laden suspension). I forget exactly what mine was with the Lutz setup but it was something like 24mm and 26mm.
I was heavy into 1/8 scale 5 years ago and this is all a refresher for me. I'm picking it back up slowly. Now....if I can just learn how to drive this damn thing!!
12-17-2015, 03:30 AM
#950
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
What was throwing me off is the Hudy setup station I have. It tells you to check droop with the wheels off and measure under the threaded portion of the wheel hub. You can't do this and get the proper droop settings (shock length) so I will just eliminate that extra step.
I appreciate everyones help.
I appreciate everyones help.
12-17-2015, 10:53 AM
#951
No problem. This initially confused me too. I used the hudy method for touring car because that's what the setup sheets called for and initially tried using it for offroad too, but none of the setup sheets referenced droop - they all referenced shock length. I even tried setting the shock length and then measure droop so I could make sure my droop was consistent as I made setup changes. I guess shock length is easier to measure, but if I make a setup change on shock positions, I have no idea what shock length needs to be to retain the same droop. Oh well, glad we can help.
That being said, your scenario of changing shock positions won't actually change droop, as the droop screws do that, so you're already at the same correct position once you put the shocks back on. They are different length that you can measure, but the droop of the arm is still the same.
12-17-2015, 04:35 PM
#952
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
I agree, which is why I measure mine as another ride height.
That being said, your scenario of changing shock positions won't actually change droop, as the droop screws do that, so you're already at the same correct position once you put the shocks back on. They are different length that you can measure, but the droop of the arm is still the same.
That being said, your scenario of changing shock positions won't actually change droop, as the droop screws do that, so you're already at the same correct position once you put the shocks back on. They are different length that you can measure, but the droop of the arm is still the same.
:
12-18-2015, 12:09 AM
#954
I've seen a few comments about lack of off power steering. Is that with using Joe Bornhorst Wicked NB48 setup? I never had the previous version of the EB so I can't compare to that. For me, off power wise, it was on par with my serpent. I did get some push on-power. I think it might be because I used Associated 7K in front and center diffs. It seems a little thicker than ptrc. In the process of changing that out. Anyway, I was able to go to a 2.5 sway bar in rear and that helped with the on power push. Once I get all the diff oil changed out, I will be curious to see how the .3 turns. I was just curious as to if the lack of off-power steering was occuring with Joe's setup and, if so, had anyone found a fix other than going to the .2 hubs and spindles or using 10 deg hubs?
I am still running something that is very close to the Wicked Weekend NB setup, but now that the team has figured out a couple more things with the vehicle setup there have been some key changes I've made. The changes I can remember off the top of my head are:
- 2.3mm front sway bar instead of 2.4mm, helps a lot with mid corner push
- 4 steering limiters instead of 2, for consistency and stability
- Less droop, Usually around 120/135 but varies depending on driver and track. Less droop=less weight transfer
- Thicker diffs, such as 997. Helps a lot with stability and reducing the twitchy feeling the cars can have sometimes. Also improves forward drive and can help the car pull over small bumps better
- Camber/Ride height. I personally prefer cars with a bit less camber and a lower ride height, which reduces side to side weight transfer while maintaining grip because the car has to roll over a shorter distance to get the ideal contact patch. On the opposite end of this, drivers that drive aggressively or with a lot of throttle may like more droop, more ride height, and more camber because the car will transfer more weight in corners and under acceleration which can produce more grip
Hopefully this helps!
12-18-2015, 03:22 AM
#955
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
It just occurred to me that no one has actually answered your questions yet. I have not had issues with finding steering, but I was with Tekno when the .2 cars were current so I know how they react to certain changes pretty well.
I am still running something that is very close to the Wicked Weekend NB setup, but now that the team has figured out a couple more things with the vehicle setup there have been some key changes I've made. The changes I can remember off the top of my head are:
- 2.3mm front sway bar instead of 2.4mm, helps a lot with mid corner push
- 4 steering limiters instead of 2, for consistency and stability
- Less droop, Usually around 120/135 but varies depending on driver and track. Less droop=less weight transfer
- Thicker diffs, such as 997. Helps a lot with stability and reducing the twitchy feeling the cars can have sometimes. Also improves forward drive and can help the car pull over small bumps better
- Camber/Ride height. I personally prefer cars with a bit less camber and a lower ride height, which reduces side to side weight transfer while maintaining grip because the car has to roll over a shorter distance to get the ideal contact patch. On the opposite end of this, drivers that drive aggressively or with a lot of throttle may like more droop, more ride height, and more camber because the car will transfer more weight in corners and under acceleration which can produce more grip
Hopefully this helps!
I am still running something that is very close to the Wicked Weekend NB setup, but now that the team has figured out a couple more things with the vehicle setup there have been some key changes I've made. The changes I can remember off the top of my head are:
- 2.3mm front sway bar instead of 2.4mm, helps a lot with mid corner push
- 4 steering limiters instead of 2, for consistency and stability
- Less droop, Usually around 120/135 but varies depending on driver and track. Less droop=less weight transfer
- Thicker diffs, such as 997. Helps a lot with stability and reducing the twitchy feeling the cars can have sometimes. Also improves forward drive and can help the car pull over small bumps better
- Camber/Ride height. I personally prefer cars with a bit less camber and a lower ride height, which reduces side to side weight transfer while maintaining grip because the car has to roll over a shorter distance to get the ideal contact patch. On the opposite end of this, drivers that drive aggressively or with a lot of throttle may like more droop, more ride height, and more camber because the car will transfer more weight in corners and under acceleration which can produce more grip
Hopefully this helps!
Last edited by qstorm777; 12-18-2015 at 05:41 AM.
12-18-2015, 06:17 AM
#956
Tech Regular
This being my first 1/8th scale it was all pretty new to me and very different than any of the 2WD buggies I have played with in the past. I originally purchased all of the swaybars up to the 3.0mm. I went through them in testing and found, at least for our fairly smooth clay track, the 2.4mm was as stiff as could be used and keep the tires in good contact with out inducing lift and scrub at either end of the buggy. I settled on the 2.3mm front and 2.4mm rear.
Since it was in the manual on initial build, never tried removing them.
I did add the .2's 10* caster blocks and that gave me a ton of initial turn in which is needed running this big buggy on an 1/10th scale track with quite a few 180* turns.
I found the same thing having played quite a bit with diff fluids, bought almost all of them from 3K up to 20K. It took me a while to get a good feel of how the power distribution in this buggy locks or unlocks how the buggy tracks on or off throttle in a corner. I settled with 7K-F 10K-M and 4K-R. I found, for my driving style, anything above 4K in the rear added too much on power push for the small track I run on. I can get on the throttle harder and quicker with the diff setup I have now. My buggy is finally getting to that point of being pretty locked in, the times on the track are slowly going down as my refinement of it's setup improves. Two months ago I was happy to be nibbling at the backside of high 15 second lap times, this last weekend I was nibbling at the high 13's.
- Camber/Ride height. I personally prefer cars with a bit less camber and a lower ride height, which reduces side to side weight transfer while maintaining grip because the car has to roll over a shorter distance to get the ideal contact patch. On the opposite end of this, drivers that drive aggressively or with a lot of throttle may like more droop, more ride height, and more camber because the car will transfer more weight in corners and under acceleration which can produce more grip
Hopefully this helps!
Hopefully this helps!
12-19-2015, 12:33 AM
#957
Thanks!!! My next move was to go to 2.3 swaybar up front. I hadn't thought about droop and camber. Did think about lowering front ride height and going to 1 or 1.5 deg toe out. I had assoc 7K in front and center diffs and kit 5K in rear diff. Just got done changing eb diffs to ptrc 7K front and center. My understanding was that Assoc diff oil is thicker than ptrc and the kit diff oils so I thought that may be causing some problems. Im going to try that out and, if it that doesn't feel right, go up to 997. Is Assoc diff oil really like 2K stiffer than the kit diff oil?
You are correct in thinking AE oils are thicker, I found this also when I was switching over to PTRC. I'm not positive how much thicker they are, but I would agree that are about 2k thicker. You're right again with the thicker diff fluids, this is one of the more recent changes the team has been playing with in order to get more stability out of the car so it can be driven harder and more aggressively. The idea is that the .3 diffs have been designed to be freer than the .2 diffs, so in order to get the same feel from your diffs when switching to the newer car you'd go up 2k on diff oils.
In general, for those using PTRC fluids 775 is still a good starting point, but is on the light side for this car and that brand of oil. In the future 997/10 10 7 will likely become more often used for the reasons I stated above. Give it a try and let us know what you think!
12-19-2015, 12:37 AM
#958
This being my first 1/8th scale it was all pretty new to me and very different than any of the 2WD buggies I have played with in the past. I originally purchased all of the swaybars up to the 3.0mm. I went through them in testing and found, at least for our fairly smooth clay track, the 2.4mm was as stiff as could be used and keep the tires in good contact with out inducing lift and scrub at either end of the buggy. I settled on the 2.3mm front and 2.4mm rear.
Since it was in the manual on initial build, never tried removing them.
I have played with droop and ride height quite a bit along with most of the settings and have found for my driving style, pretty aggressive all the way around, reduced droop and ride height. Ride height is currently at 26mm front and 27mm rear. Droop is sitting at 116 front and 132 rear.
I did add the .2's 10* caster blocks and that gave me a ton of initial turn in which is needed running this big buggy on an 1/10th scale track with quite a few 180* turns.
I found the same thing having played quite a bit with diff fluids, bought almost all of them from 3K up to 20K. It took me a while to get a good feel of how the power distribution in this buggy locks or unlocks how the buggy tracks on or off throttle in a corner. I settled with 7K-F 10K-M and 4K-R. I found, for my driving style, anything above 4K in the rear added too much on power push for the small track I run on. I can get on the throttle harder and quicker with the diff setup I have now. My buggy is finally getting to that point of being pretty locked in, the times on the track are slowly going down as my refinement of it's setup improves. Two months ago I was happy to be nibbling at the backside of high 15 second lap times, this last weekend I was nibbling at the high 13's.
I am still tweaking my camber links and have a fairly short front setup (#5-A) with a fairly long rear (#3-C). I think as I get smoother with my aggressive driving, I might be moving towards reducing the amount of movement the links provide.
Since it was in the manual on initial build, never tried removing them.
I have played with droop and ride height quite a bit along with most of the settings and have found for my driving style, pretty aggressive all the way around, reduced droop and ride height. Ride height is currently at 26mm front and 27mm rear. Droop is sitting at 116 front and 132 rear.
I did add the .2's 10* caster blocks and that gave me a ton of initial turn in which is needed running this big buggy on an 1/10th scale track with quite a few 180* turns.
I found the same thing having played quite a bit with diff fluids, bought almost all of them from 3K up to 20K. It took me a while to get a good feel of how the power distribution in this buggy locks or unlocks how the buggy tracks on or off throttle in a corner. I settled with 7K-F 10K-M and 4K-R. I found, for my driving style, anything above 4K in the rear added too much on power push for the small track I run on. I can get on the throttle harder and quicker with the diff setup I have now. My buggy is finally getting to that point of being pretty locked in, the times on the track are slowly going down as my refinement of it's setup improves. Two months ago I was happy to be nibbling at the backside of high 15 second lap times, this last weekend I was nibbling at the high 13's.
I am still tweaking my camber links and have a fairly short front setup (#5-A) with a fairly long rear (#3-C). I think as I get smoother with my aggressive driving, I might be moving towards reducing the amount of movement the links provide.
The only thing is, I would try running the shortest possible link in the front and see how that works for you. You may find you can now put back on the trailing 15* caster block setup which will improve the stability of the car and you will still have the steering you are looking for. Let me know if you get a chance to try this!
12-19-2015, 07:44 AM
#959
[QUOTE=Carter Flotron;14312349]
" The idea is that the .3 diffs have been designed to be freer than the .2 diffs, so in order to get the same feel from your diffs when switching to the newer car you'd go up 2k on diff oils. "
Thanks for your recent posts. Great information.
I have a question on the difference between the .2 and .3 diffs.
By looking at the part numbers the only difference I see is the diff shim TKR5145 changed to TKR5145B in the .3. Do you know if there were other running changes without a part number change?
The reason I ask is that I am building a .3 for next season and have a few back up .2 diffs that I would like to set up with different weight oils for easy set changes but want to make sure the diffs are the same (except for oil weight) for consistency.
Thanks
" The idea is that the .3 diffs have been designed to be freer than the .2 diffs, so in order to get the same feel from your diffs when switching to the newer car you'd go up 2k on diff oils. "
Thanks for your recent posts. Great information.
I have a question on the difference between the .2 and .3 diffs.
By looking at the part numbers the only difference I see is the diff shim TKR5145 changed to TKR5145B in the .3. Do you know if there were other running changes without a part number change?
The reason I ask is that I am building a .3 for next season and have a few back up .2 diffs that I would like to set up with different weight oils for easy set changes but want to make sure the diffs are the same (except for oil weight) for consistency.
Thanks