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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: New Schumacher KF2
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Welcome to the KF2 Wiki!

Please feel free to add any Tips, Tricks, or anything that would be beneficial to the KF2 Family

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17.5 I ran 69/31 at SRS Scottsdale Arizona and 72/30 at MHOR Aurora Co and Full Throttle ALB, NM RCM lockout worked excellent!


MIP pucks excellent upgrade! The new RCM lockout is an excellent piece as well! These options will greatly reduce weight throughout the drive line!

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Old 08-08-2015, 06:02 PM   #436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Newland View Post
run a straight edge across the rear of the wheels and measure the hex depth with calipers.... the offset is different, not by much...
Attached are some photos showing the measurements with this method. The black wheel is the kit Schumacher wheel (U4365). The white wheel is an Associated #9695. Both are 2.2" rears.

They measure negligibly different. Minus the 2.15mm thickness of the ruler they both are 26.75mm offset, which is close to exactly one inch.

I have never measured Avid, DE or any other brands. But these AE wheels should bolt up just fine without spacers.
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New Schumacher KF2-img_0439.jpg   New Schumacher KF2-img_0441.jpg   New Schumacher KF2-img_0442.jpg  
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Old 08-08-2015, 06:10 PM   #437
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Orlowski / Schumacher FTW!!!

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Old 08-08-2015, 06:36 PM   #438
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Originally Posted by MelKF2 View Post
Read a article on the new LCG on-line (LiveRC) that the LCG's do not provide enough power for stock racing, but are excellent for mod!....
I cannot speak for the actual LCG packs from LRP but the super shorty packs I have from them definitely have a higher internal resistance than some of my other standard shorties.

Here is a great pack for those wanting to try out the LCG shorty with the MM conversion:

http://www.promatchracing.com/prodde...rod=2S3500100C

Only 2.4 milliohm per cell and at $35 I think it is a great value. It is also a great way to shave 50-60g off your total mass too. Stock guys will love that

I am actually going to start using these as my default battery because they have more than enough capacity for 5 minutes with any motor in probably any situation, they keep the weight down low (I'll tune chassis roll elsewhere) and they let me put the extra weight saved where I want it. If that area happens to be under the battery they have 50g under lipo weights that are roughly 1mm thin. And never mind that for the price of about 1 of the big name brand's packs I could get three of these....

I am sure there are people here who will challenge this but I am willing to bet that there are very few people (if any) who could "feel" the difference between a pack with cells having IRs in the teens (millohms) vs cells having less than 5. I think its just part of the "religion" of stock racing. Disclosure: I am a stock racer most of the time. I will continue to be until my times are generally faster with more than a 17.5 / 13.5, which they are not.

A whole other discussion about internal resistance can be had about the method and the manner by which you actually measure it. It can be thorny. But this is the KF2 thread so I digress....
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Old 08-08-2015, 07:15 PM   #439
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Originally Posted by motorcitymatt View Post
I cannot speak for the actual LCG packs from LRP but the super shorty packs I have from them definitely have a higher internal resistance than some of my other standard shorties.

Here is a great pack for those wanting to try out the LCG shorty with the MM conversion:

http://www.promatchracing.com/prodde...rod=2S3500100C

Only 2.4 milliohm per cell and at $35 I think it is a great value. It is also a great way to shave 50-60g off your total mass too. Stock guys will love that

I am actually going to start using these as my default battery because they have more than enough capacity for 5 minutes with any motor in probably any situation, they keep the weight down low (I'll tune chassis roll elsewhere) and they let me put the extra weight saved where I want it. If that area happens to be under the battery they have 50g under lipo weights that are roughly 1mm thin. And never mind that for the price of about 1 of the big name brand's packs I could get three of these....

I am sure there are people here who will challenge this but I am willing to bet that there are very few people (if any) who could "feel" the difference between a pack with cells having IRs in the teens (millohms) vs cells having less than 5. I think its just part of the "religion" of stock racing. Disclosure: I am a stock racer most of the time. I will continue to be until my times are generally faster with more than a 17.5 / 13.5, which they are not.

A whole other discussion about internal resistance can be had about the method and the manner by which you actually measure it. It can be thorny. But this is the KF2 thread so I digress....
Thanks Matt, will buy the Promatch! There is a pic of Parnot's MM on (petitrc.com) showing a single battery hold down (Vertical). Is that an option part?
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Old 08-08-2015, 08:48 PM   #440
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I had some track time today with the new MM conversion. I have to say I am disappointed with the results so far.

I had a experience very similar to Matt's. I started with the MM conversion with the low grip setup we were using before. I was surprised to see the amount of forward traction had increased substantially, but I had zero lateral on power grip in the turns and would spin out at the slightest turn.

I flipped the rear arms for a wider wheelbase, removed the front brace, added 56g of weight behind the motor assembly, 1' anti squat, and added slicks to the front. It would still break loose off power entering the turn or oversteer on power exiting and I would end up in the next lane over.

Should I have not flipped the rear arms and left them forward? Did removing the front brace introduce too much flex aiding in the oversteer?

Ultimately, I got frustrated. It got to a point that the small changes didn't seem to have a discernible effect. It was either loose off power or over steering on power. In between battery charges I would drive my Rb6 which wasn't helping my frustration. I have similar equipment in each running blinky. The Kf2 doesn't come close to how responsive and nimble my Rb6 is. The Kf2 was such a joy to assembly, simple to work on, and easy to adjust that I so desperately want my Kf2 to work for me.
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Old 08-08-2015, 08:56 PM   #441
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I still am convinced that Maizer's personal mod is what this MM conversion should have been.
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Old 08-09-2015, 07:08 AM   #442
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Originally Posted by Jpdanger View Post
I had some track time today with the new MM conversion. I have to say I am disappointed with the results so far.

I had a experience very similar to Matt's. I started with the MM conversion with the low grip setup we were using before. I was surprised to see the amount of forward traction had increased substantially, but I had zero lateral on power grip in the turns and would spin out at the slightest turn.

I flipped the rear arms for a wider wheelbase, removed the front brace, added 56g of weight behind the motor assembly, 1' anti squat, and added slicks to the front. It would still break loose off power entering the turn or oversteer on power exiting and I would end up in the next lane over.

Should I have not flipped the rear arms and left them forward? Did removing the front brace introduce too much flex aiding in the oversteer?

Ultimately, I got frustrated. It got to a point that the small changes didn't seem to have a discernible effect. It was either loose off power or over steering on power. In between battery charges I would drive my Rb6 which wasn't helping my frustration. I have similar equipment in each running blinky. The Kf2 doesn't come close to how responsive and nimble my Rb6 is. The Kf2 was such a joy to assembly, simple to work on, and easy to adjust that I so desperately want my Kf2 to work for me.
It is going to be interesting to see the set ups from the Euros (RHR) and see what then did. From what I can see from some of the photos it looks like they added a lot of weight to the rear mainly the sides.I
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Old 08-09-2015, 07:25 AM   #443
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its interesting to see folks w/ trouble after the MM conversion. hopefully everyone is trying actual setup changes too-- and not just hoping that throwing on parts will fix everything

i ran my 38/62% weight KF2 on a newly redesigned layout last wednesday with pin tires. i didn't have any traction issues.
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Old 08-09-2015, 07:59 AM   #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorcitymatt View Post
Attached are some photos showing the measurements with this method. The black wheel is the kit Schumacher wheel (U4365). The white wheel is an Associated #9695. Both are 2.2" rears.

They measure negligibly different. Minus the 2.15mm thickness of the ruler they both are 26.75mm offset, which is close to exactly one inch.

I have never measured Avid, DE or any other brands. But these AE wheels should bolt up just fine without spacers.
Interesting... Ill check my wheels if I get a chance today

note: 25.4mm = 1 inch
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Old 08-09-2015, 08:34 AM   #445
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i ran my 38/62% weight KF2 on a newly redesigned layout last wednesday with pin tires. i didn't have any traction issues.
What was your setup? How much weight did you have to add to get to 62%?
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Old 08-09-2015, 11:10 AM   #446
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its interesting to see folks w/ trouble after the MM conversion. hopefully everyone is trying actual setup changes too-- and not just hoping that throwing on parts will fix everything....
My sentiments exactly. The conversion is a pretty dramatic change and the base setup needs to change with it. It would have been nice for Schumacher to include a base setup in the instructions in the conversion kit but oh well. I had it pretty close after my first outing on some pretty low traction conditions. I am heading out this afternoon to try some more things. After further reflection on how the car was behaving I think I know what the key change is going to be that really will get things right. I will share the results with you all of course.

@JP - I think this conversion really does solve the biggest problem the car had before, which was the forward bite. I feel that dealing with that is mostly outside of the realm of reasonable tuning efforts and more of a design limitation. I think the problems the car has now with the MM conversion (and a needed setup freshening) are within the realm of tuning and that we should be able to get there. Keep heart!
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Old 08-09-2015, 06:19 PM   #447
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a jpg of my setup attached.
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New Schumacher KF2-150809-kf2-hanulm-17.5.jpg  
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Old 08-09-2015, 08:29 PM   #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorcitymatt View Post
Attached are some photos showing the measurements with this method. The black wheel is the kit Schumacher wheel (U4365). The white wheel is an Associated #9695. Both are 2.2" rears.

They measure negligibly different. Minus the 2.15mm thickness of the ruler they both are 26.75mm offset, which is close to exactly one inch.

I have never measured Avid, DE or any other brands. But these AE wheels should bolt up just fine without spacers.
Ok Ive measure all my wheels... I had it backwards, been a while since Ive ran my electric stuff

rear wheels backspacing:

stock: 26.62mm
avid: 27.00mm

front wheels backspacing:

stock: 16.67mm
avid: 18.17mm


roughly .4mm difference rear and 1.5mm front per side...(measuring them isnt really a science on my end either, there is some flex to average in there)

Ive been running 1mm avid spacers up front and none in the rear....

Also the overall width is different... (inside bead to inside bead, as outer width could change due to design and/or appearance)

rear width:

stock: 35.10mm
avid: 35.90mm

front width:

stock: 22.10mm
avid: 23.15mm

pretty significant differences there imo....
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Old 08-09-2015, 08:39 PM   #449
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Thanks for measuring those Avid wheels. I have been wanting to try them for awhile and I was wondering about the spacing details. I think those are significant differences too.

So what are you running these days? 1/8th scale nitro? When are you going to dust off the Schumachers?????
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Old 08-09-2015, 08:45 PM   #450
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Ya I like them... they stay true longer. Theyre alot thicker in the center

Ya Ive been racing alot of nitro lately, traveling for a few new brands/distributor promoting. Our local tracks have been going through alot of changes so no big deal really. Im thinking about going out saturday and running some flashlights

I pulled everything out and dusted it off tonight, change shock orings and throw it down
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