Sad story: Cheating rampant at big races...
07-25-2014, 08:26 AM
#316
I do agree that motors should be "pre" checked and marked. That would have eliminated the issue for the 3 that bought illegal motors. Other may have not known that a 13mm HT rotor was illegal because everyone at their club track runs them. So they just brought along their club motor to the race. A pre inspection would have let them know, they need a different rotor. Then later when they do post main tear downs, you have no excuse. you motor was either pre approved or not. And if you were approved, then later modified the config, you can only blame yourself.
07-25-2014, 08:28 AM
#318
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and shake my head.Wildcat has point, it is easy to cheat, if your moral compass points that way. All the parts are there, you just pull 3 screws and put them in.
07-25-2014, 08:32 AM
#319
Check what you put on the track and take responsibility or roll the dice and pay the price.
07-25-2014, 10:35 AM
#321
With any spec class on any level, motorsports included, guys are going to push the limits. Tweak it but be able to pass inspection. The reason we have blatant cheaters is that it's not feasible to setup consistent tech for events. Most of the tech's I've seen are minimal and sort of just going through the motions anyways.
Matt Murphy puts the onus on the track owners but it's really not fair to ask them to setup a process that will take extra time just for the sake of fairness. This is a hobby and 99% of racers make no income from it. Unless it's a big race, it's just not worth teching. Does it make it any better if cheating only happens on a club night? It starts with and should end with the racers. Until the big TV money and sponsorship checks start rolling in
, any RC spec class is mostly going to be self-policed.
I've never cheated and don't plan to. I'd love to run in a clean class but there isn't an easy way to do it without disrupting the system. I do wonder though, if sponsorships play a part in making drivers feeling that they need to be at their best all the time.
Matt Murphy puts the onus on the track owners but it's really not fair to ask them to setup a process that will take extra time just for the sake of fairness. This is a hobby and 99% of racers make no income from it. Unless it's a big race, it's just not worth teching. Does it make it any better if cheating only happens on a club night? It starts with and should end with the racers. Until the big TV money and sponsorship checks start rolling in
, any RC spec class is mostly going to be self-policed.I've never cheated and don't plan to. I'd love to run in a clean class but there isn't an easy way to do it without disrupting the system. I do wonder though, if sponsorships play a part in making drivers feeling that they need to be at their best all the time.
07-25-2014, 11:24 AM
#322
Tech Addict
iTrader: (16)
I will say this I really do appreciate nitro classes more and more.
It makes more sense to line up classes based on skill level, and leave the motor open. I liked it better when you had boost simply because you did not have to buy the 'right' %.05 motor. If 17.5 is supposed to be the slower class designed for novice, it sure does not look like that at any race I have ever attended.
I am not hating on stock, but clearly it means different things to different people. Personally I run mod because I don't need to buy all the light weight crap just to clear the short run up double. That more than anything else is why I hate racing stock. Track designers are in love with those short run-up's and if you have the .05% motor, cut gears, pucks etc not so hard to clear. Try doing that in a normal car and it does not work.
To be honest if you want to really see the cheating stop . . more people need to run tech like HRH, and put up with less excuses. manufacturers need to stop making cheater gear . . I mean outlaw 17.5 wtf?! I also think manufacturer's should just make 17.5's with high torque rotor's and be done with it . . . see Reedy or Schuur Speed. They are always fast and dang pretty simple. No multiple rotors and stators . . make a spec motor and be done with it.
For all the people claiming it's driving then ya'll should jump on the locked timing, sealed endbell, spec batteries, spec tires, and the rest of it. Until you have a spec for all of it someone is going to invent a new way to tweak things . . .
my vote if you want to really even it out . . .
spec 17.5
* 1/10 buggy chassis - no mod's allowed - box stock no team kit, no pucks, no cut gears, no chassis milling, no aluminum top shaft . . nothing (open kit build kit . . then race).
* 4000 mah spec battery (60c . . only xyz batteries approved)
* SP citrix esc/motor combo
* spec tire for each track
anything short of that and it's no longer a spec class and if we are going to allow one thing why not another. Why not bring back boost, evens out people poping in a mod stator.
It makes more sense to line up classes based on skill level, and leave the motor open. I liked it better when you had boost simply because you did not have to buy the 'right' %.05 motor. If 17.5 is supposed to be the slower class designed for novice, it sure does not look like that at any race I have ever attended.
I am not hating on stock, but clearly it means different things to different people. Personally I run mod because I don't need to buy all the light weight crap just to clear the short run up double. That more than anything else is why I hate racing stock. Track designers are in love with those short run-up's and if you have the .05% motor, cut gears, pucks etc not so hard to clear. Try doing that in a normal car and it does not work.
To be honest if you want to really see the cheating stop . . more people need to run tech like HRH, and put up with less excuses. manufacturers need to stop making cheater gear . . I mean outlaw 17.5 wtf?! I also think manufacturer's should just make 17.5's with high torque rotor's and be done with it . . . see Reedy or Schuur Speed. They are always fast and dang pretty simple. No multiple rotors and stators . . make a spec motor and be done with it.
For all the people claiming it's driving then ya'll should jump on the locked timing, sealed endbell, spec batteries, spec tires, and the rest of it. Until you have a spec for all of it someone is going to invent a new way to tweak things . . .
my vote if you want to really even it out . . .
spec 17.5
* 1/10 buggy chassis - no mod's allowed - box stock no team kit, no pucks, no cut gears, no chassis milling, no aluminum top shaft . . nothing (open kit build kit . . then race).
* 4000 mah spec battery (60c . . only xyz batteries approved)
* SP citrix esc/motor combo
* spec tire for each track
anything short of that and it's no longer a spec class and if we are going to allow one thing why not another. Why not bring back boost, evens out people poping in a mod stator.
07-25-2014, 11:25 AM
#323
With any spec class on any level, motorsports included, guys are going to push the limits. Tweak it but be able to pass inspection. The reason we have blatant cheaters is that it's not feasible to setup consistent tech for events. Most of the tech's I've seen are minimal and sort of just going through the motions anyways.
Matt Murphy puts the onus on the track owners but it's really not fair to ask them to setup a process that will take extra time just for the sake of fairness. This is a hobby and 99% of racers make no income from it. Unless it's a big race, it's just not worth teching. Does it make it any better if cheating only happens on a club night? It starts with and should end with the racers. Until the big TV money and sponsorship checks start rolling in, any RC spec class is mostly going to be self-policed.
I've never cheated and don't plan to. I'd love to run in a clean class but there isn't an easy way to do it without disrupting the system. I do wonder though, if sponsorships play a part in making drivers feeling that they need to be at their best all the time.
Matt Murphy puts the onus on the track owners but it's really not fair to ask them to setup a process that will take extra time just for the sake of fairness. This is a hobby and 99% of racers make no income from it. Unless it's a big race, it's just not worth teching. Does it make it any better if cheating only happens on a club night? It starts with and should end with the racers. Until the big TV money and sponsorship checks start rolling in
, any RC spec class is mostly going to be self-policed.I've never cheated and don't plan to. I'd love to run in a clean class but there isn't an easy way to do it without disrupting the system. I do wonder though, if sponsorships play a part in making drivers feeling that they need to be at their best all the time.
Muphy is calling a spade a spade. We should do the same.
Tech yourself and be prepared to be teched.
Them's the rules.
07-25-2014, 11:47 AM
#325
What's not fair is advertising and taking money for a spec that isnt absolutly made sure to be followed. Open is open, spec is spec. No if, ans or buts.
Muphy is calling a spade a spade. We should do the same.
Tech yourself and be prepared to be teched.
Them's the rules.
Muphy is calling a spade a spade. We should do the same.
Tech yourself and be prepared to be teched.
Them's the rules.
07-25-2014, 01:23 PM
#326
Tech Master
Seven drivers in 17.5 divisions, and two more in 13.5 classes, were DQ’d for various motor rule violations.
- Three drivers were caught with illegal motors that were purchased from the hobby shop without being tampered with. One of them was marked as “ROAR-legal” but contained an illegal rotor. - Not Cheaters, assuming they really didn't "know".
- Two drivers were caught with 13.5-turn stators installed in 17.5-turn cans. - CHEATERS! One driver insisted he had purchased his motor this way. - May not be a cheater?
- At least one driver installed a non-ROAR legal stator into a ROAR-legal motor - CHEATER!
- At least one driver installed a ROAR-legal modified-class rotor into a ROAR-legal spec motor - CHEATER!
- At least one driver installed a larger-than-legal rotor into a spec motor. - CHEATER!
- One driver that was called to tech inspection had a motor that had been glued together and could not be torn down for inspection. After being told that his run would be disqualified, the racer cut off the can with a Dremel - and the internals were found to be legal. - Not Cheating?
Last edited by JiuHaWong; 07-25-2014 at 03:45 PM.
07-25-2014, 01:29 PM
#327
I will say this I really do appreciate nitro classes more and more.
It makes more sense to line up classes based on skill level, and leave the motor open. I liked it better when you had boost simply because you did not have to buy the 'right' %.05 motor. If 17.5 is supposed to be the slower class designed for novice, it sure does not look like that at any race I have ever attended.
I am not hating on stock, but clearly it means different things to different people. Personally I run mod because I don't need to buy all the light weight crap just to clear the short run up double. That more than anything else is why I hate racing stock. Track designers are in love with those short run-up's and if you have the .05% motor, cut gears, pucks etc not so hard to clear. Try doing that in a normal car and it does not work.
To be honest if you want to really see the cheating stop . . more people need to run tech like HRH, and put up with less excuses. manufacturers need to stop making cheater gear . . I mean outlaw 17.5 wtf?! I also think manufacturer's should just make 17.5's with high torque rotor's and be done with it . . . see Reedy or Schuur Speed. They are always fast and dang pretty simple. No multiple rotors and stators . . make a spec motor and be done with it.
For all the people claiming it's driving then ya'll should jump on the locked timing, sealed endbell, spec batteries, spec tires, and the rest of it. Until you have a spec for all of it someone is going to invent a new way to tweak things . . .
my vote if you want to really even it out . . .
spec 17.5
* 1/10 buggy chassis - no mod's allowed - box stock no team kit, no pucks, no cut gears, no chassis milling, no aluminum top shaft . . nothing (open kit build kit . . then race).
* 4000 mah spec battery (60c . . only xyz batteries approved)
* SP citrix esc/motor combo
* spec tire for each track
anything short of that and it's no longer a spec class and if we are going to allow one thing why not another. Why not bring back boost, evens out people poping in a mod stator.
It makes more sense to line up classes based on skill level, and leave the motor open. I liked it better when you had boost simply because you did not have to buy the 'right' %.05 motor. If 17.5 is supposed to be the slower class designed for novice, it sure does not look like that at any race I have ever attended.
I am not hating on stock, but clearly it means different things to different people. Personally I run mod because I don't need to buy all the light weight crap just to clear the short run up double. That more than anything else is why I hate racing stock. Track designers are in love with those short run-up's and if you have the .05% motor, cut gears, pucks etc not so hard to clear. Try doing that in a normal car and it does not work.
To be honest if you want to really see the cheating stop . . more people need to run tech like HRH, and put up with less excuses. manufacturers need to stop making cheater gear . . I mean outlaw 17.5 wtf?! I also think manufacturer's should just make 17.5's with high torque rotor's and be done with it . . . see Reedy or Schuur Speed. They are always fast and dang pretty simple. No multiple rotors and stators . . make a spec motor and be done with it.
For all the people claiming it's driving then ya'll should jump on the locked timing, sealed endbell, spec batteries, spec tires, and the rest of it. Until you have a spec for all of it someone is going to invent a new way to tweak things . . .
my vote if you want to really even it out . . .
spec 17.5
* 1/10 buggy chassis - no mod's allowed - box stock no team kit, no pucks, no cut gears, no chassis milling, no aluminum top shaft . . nothing (open kit build kit . . then race).
* 4000 mah spec battery (60c . . only xyz batteries approved)
* SP citrix esc/motor combo
* spec tire for each track
anything short of that and it's no longer a spec class and if we are going to allow one thing why not another. Why not bring back boost, evens out people poping in a mod stator.
yeah, cause no one is heating up tanks and expanding them in nitro :P whats the difference?
07-25-2014, 01:36 PM
#329
07-25-2014, 01:41 PM
#330
Races like Cactus and shootout are always going to have tech, and you can protest motors as well if you are convinced someone is cheating.
the only reason this race is making headlines is because they teched EVERYONE. Usually the people that are cheating arent good enough for it to matter.. so their motors never make it to tech. People that are good enough to win stock at a Major event know they are going to face tech so they dont cheat.