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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Team Associated RC10 B5m Mid-Motor Thread
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:13 AM   #14041
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Many say the mid motor car is a little harder to drive but from my experience it's massively easier to drive. Our local indoor track is medium bite clay but I find the MM very forgiving and easy to catch. You don't have the massive pendulum affect of the rear motor pulling you around corner exits. Just a different feel but much easier once you're use to it. Stick with MM in almost any aspect unless it's just a silty, dusty mess of a track...even then I'd still give the MM a go and let it drift a little.
I dont know how you setup your rear motor car, but atleast how I setup RM car you don't have any pendulum effect (it is generally front wheels that lose traction first)?

Generally agree what Socket said, but IMO for most people it is irrelevant what car you have. It is all about how it is setup. IE RM can be very agile (COG moved forward) if setup so and MM car can have massive rear wheel traction (If COG moved backwards). It is about extremes where other types car cannot do, but making setups like that is very rare.
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:16 AM   #14042
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I'd be interested in knowing what it would take, out of curiosity if nothing else.
The biggest thing is a small lipo. That by itself will get you almost there. After that a set of AKA evo wheels/tires would be worth another 40g. When the B5 series came out I weighed everything. Aluminum wheel nuts save 6, turnbuckles save a bit, aluminum screws were worth 20 or so I think, a slipper eliminator is worth 8-10. On top of all that there is some plastic that you could trim off the car without a negative impact to the way the car handles. The bottom line is the lipo and wheels/tires can get you there for around $100.
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:28 AM   #14043
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Lets put this RM vs mm into perspective. Cav can beat all of you with a RM car, thus you have not yet maximized the potential of the RM car.
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:30 AM   #14044
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Socket is mostly correct about his opinions It seems that AE has chosen the RM car for some outdoor racing in the US. Nick Wautlet recently posted his setup sheet. Socket is correct, the RM car is "easier" to setup. I run on med-high and high bite tracks and prefer the MM car. Mostly for their flat jumping and lower rear bite.
You named dropped walnuts and didn't tell the full truth here.

Yes he ran a rear motor car at hot rod, yes he was hauling ass.

And yes he got beat by a mid motor car.
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:30 AM   #14045
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Haha, no point in the MM vs RM debate. Most people who say MM works everywhere dont run on they types of track that RM shines. I have seen a local make the A main in stock and do very well with a clapped out B5RM. In the end, it is all about the driver
We all go round N round about this but I know that we experimented for a year and did all sorts of testing and found that the B5M out performs the B5R from wet dirt to sugared blue groove. We also did this with the RB6....same thing. We used about 6 cars and the drivers ranged from Sponsored drivers to me (not fast, not sponsored). We compared feel, lap times, race wins, series wins etc. I'm the first to admit that it wasn't very scientific and there was no way to prove the setups were all equal. All I will say is that there are no more RM cars on our track. I'll also agree that the fast guys still won all the time and when we got the cars all dialed in the lap times were still close except for the fastest guys. They really had significantly faster laps with MM when the track was wet. When traction is high I think its more about driver preference and style. If I give my sponsored buddy a clapped out rear motor car that has an ok set up on it he's still going to lap me at least once unless he's pounded a six pack first (which i do not condone at the track).
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:37 AM   #14046
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We all go round N round about this but I know that we experimented for a year and did all sorts of testing and found that the B5M out performs the B5R from wet dirt to sugared blue groove. We also did this with the RB6....same thing. We used about 6 cars and the drivers ranged from Sponsored drivers to me (not fast, not sponsored). We compared feel, lap times, race wins, series wins etc. I'm the first to admit that it wasn't very scientific and there was no way to prove the setups were all equal. All I will say is that there are no more RM cars on our track. I'll also agree that the fast guys still won all the time and when we got the cars all dialed in the lap times were still close except for the fastest guys. They really had significantly faster laps with MM when the track was wet. When traction is high I think its more about driver preference and style. If I give my sponsored buddy a clapped out rear motor car that has an ok set up on it he's still going to lap me at least once unless he's pounded a six pack first (which i do not condone at the track).
I didnt gain any time or consistency with B5M. But, I like how it feels on indoor clay tracks. Plus, I hate tearing up motors in RM configurations. But, if i start racing on outdoor tracks that are poorly maintained with inconsistent traction, I would run a B5 RM. Just because it is easier and less tire work. The tuning window for the MM is smaller and when the traction greatly changes throughout the day, the MM sufferers unless you are really on top of tires. The casual show up and race and go home guy will be better off with an RM car, imo.
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:39 AM   #14047
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I didnt gain any time or consistency with B5M. But, I like how it feels on indoor clay tracks. Plus, I hate tearing up motors in RM configurations. But, if i start racing on outdoor tracks that are poorly maintained with inconsistent traction, I would run a B5 RM. Just because it is easier and less tire work. The tuning window for the MM is smaller and when the traction greatly changes throughout the day, the MM sufferers unless you are really on top of tires. The casual show up and race and go home guy will be better off with an RM car, imo.
When was the last time your ran low traction with your mid motor car?

Come down south for some outdoor racing, I'll run my b5m and you bring a rear motor car.

I'll still lap you
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:44 AM   #14048
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When was the last time your ran low traction with your mid motor car?

Come down south for some outdoor racing, I'll run my b5m and you bring a rear motor car.

I'll still lap you
lo, did you miss the part where i said fast drivers are still fast with either car, lol. And no way I would run MM on that track. I am also sure Rivkin would crush you with an RM car. MM is not a magic fast pill. And last I saw, that kid from ASU was still crushing you with his RM car on high bite
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:56 AM   #14049
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lo, did you miss the part where i said fast drivers are still fast with either car, lol. And no way I would run MM on that track. I am also sure Rivkin would crush you with an RM car. MM is not a magic fast pill. And last I saw, that kid from ASU was still crushing you with his RM car on high bite
Without sarcasm I want to pose a simple question. If RM is still a viable platform why is AE moving away from it altogether? Since this is the B5M thread I'll keep the conversation AE specific. I'm not sure why I used that quote. It doesn't matter. My point is that the B5R hardly sells and and the ST and SC are MM only. I'm just saying. Either AE is a marketing juggernaut and riding out the MM fad or their engineers know something that others haven't figured out yet.
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:59 AM   #14050
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lo, did you miss the part where i said fast drivers are still fast with either car, lol. And no way I would run MM on that track. I am also sure Rivkin would crush you with an RM car. MM is not a magic fast pill. And last I saw, that kid from ASU was still crushing you with his RM car on high bite
I was once out qualified on a bad day by a rear motor car on high bite.

I then put it together in the main, beat him, and an Arizona wildcat continues to reign supreme.
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Old 06-05-2015, 11:04 AM   #14051
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Without sarcasm I want to pose a simple question. If RM is still a viable platform why is AE moving away from it altogether? Since this is the B5M thread I'll keep the conversation AE specific.
Because it is trend nowdays and sells better. IOW it is not "better" (it is always tradeoff) but it sell better. MM cars have been many years (and MM cars didnt dominate, but they were competiteve), but only now those have become trend (and no there is no magic thing than made them suddenly better).
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Old 06-05-2015, 11:04 AM   #14052
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Without sarcasm I want to pose a simple question. If RM is still a viable platform why is AE moving away from it altogether? Since this is the B5M thread I'll keep the conversation AE specific. I'm not sure why I used that quote. It doesn't matter. My point is that the B5R hardly sells and and the ST and SC are MM only. I'm just saying. Either AE is a marketing juggernaut and riding out the MM fad or their engineers know something that others haven't figured out yet.
good question. Especially with the SC5M coming out. That is a SC truck, which are run outside more than not.
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Old 06-05-2015, 11:07 AM   #14053
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Without sarcasm I want to pose a simple question. If RM is still a viable platform why is AE moving away from it altogether? Since this is the B5M thread I'll keep the conversation AE specific. I'm not sure why I used that quote. It doesn't matter. My point is that the B5R hardly sells and and the ST and SC are MM only. I'm just saying. Either AE is a marketing juggernaut and riding out the MM fad or their engineers know something that others haven't figured out yet.
oh, I am sure it is tenths faster, and that is all it takes for the pros to run them. My point is, most people here need more than a 1/10th second to be on par with the pros, so better time spend practicing. They also are much better at tuning and have engr support that club racers dont. Lee Martin commented at cactus how he was at a disadvantage because his "tuning guy" could not get a VISA in time. And tuning over the phone is hard. But, I run MM because I like the feel, but it does not make me any faster. Maybe a couple 10ths faster, but I need more than that to win around here, lol. WTB 2 seconds per lap. Anyone know the part number?
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Old 06-05-2015, 11:09 AM   #14054
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Because it is trend nowdays and sells better. IOW it is not "better" (it is always tradeoff) but it sell better. MM cars have been many years (and MM cars didnt dominate, but they were competiteve), but only now those have become trend (and no there is no magic thing than made them suddenly better).
I couldn't disagree more.

The setup and style for the mid motor car has been figured out. Rear motor cars had 20 years of development, mid motor is only scraping the surface with the current platforms.
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Old 06-05-2015, 11:13 AM   #14055
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good question. Especially with the SC5M coming out. That is a SC truck, which are run outside more than not.
I dont know about the Sc5m, but the T4 always had WAY too much rear bite. Those fat tires are probably the cause. So I can see MM ST running on more surfaces. SC are weird. Higher CG, skinny tall tires. I have no idea how that will shack out. But I dont think AE wants to make convertible trucks and since MM is very popular, MM probably the best to make and sell. The AE team drivers race indoors on well groomed tracks. So MM makes more sense for them.


@Socket The kid has been getting faster. I actually dont know if he is still running MM, as I rarely go to W3. But i have seen his race results and he has been doing much better. Maybe he went MM.

Anyway, this argument is old and pointless. If the trend holds, we will be on turf tracks in the next 2 years and we will run low profile tranny cars and funky looking tires.
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