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Old 01-14-2015, 04:22 AM   #10486
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Help please! When running Aluminum Rear Hubs on B5M with B5 rear arms, what way should the 0 degree etch face? front or rear?

Thanks
0 degree etching faces the shock. Mid it faces rear rear motor it faces front
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Old 01-14-2015, 04:58 AM   #10487
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Most recent setup from doing droop tuning at Fastlane tonight. I found that 37.5 made my car feel really good in the front over the weekend, so today I watered the track, and found that it was better than 35 when the track was tacky, but the car still felt too twitchy. I noticed that nobody on the team has really ever ran 37.5 oil in the front, so I decided it must be front droop that was to blame. That it was. I ended up back at 20mm, really liked it, then went back to 35wt and the steering came back and was predictable and not twitchy. I also tried more and less rear droop and found that I preferred 26.75 in rear. Believe it or not, the difference between 26.5 and 26.75 in the rear was pretty apparent. It wasn't make or break, but you could tell, and one was definitely better than the other at our track.

I also have been doing some tire testing and returned to running ions instead of electron fronts because the ions are far more stable and predictable due to having denser tread at the edges and the nice stability rib on the sides.

I have given up completely on closed cell front foams on 2wd. They just don't fill up the tires or last. They fill up the tires when the tires are new, but after a few club races of traction compound, the tires expand enough that even new closed cell foam doesn't fill them up completely and they slide around. I've gone back to 2/3 - 3/4 of a rear open cell foam cut down and profiled by hand. Slightly softer than a closed cell front, but the entire tire fills up firm. Seriously feels so much better on the track and makes re-foaming fronts a breeze. They also last about the same as a closed cell for me. I've compared AKA and blue PL.
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Old 01-14-2015, 07:03 AM   #10488
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Most recent setup from doing droop tuning at Fastlane tonight. I found that 37.5 made my car feel really good in the front over the weekend, so today I watered the track, and found that it was better than 35 when the track was tacky, but the car still felt too twitchy. I noticed that nobody on the team has really ever ran 37.5 oil in the front, so I decided it must be front droop that was to blame. That it was. I ended up back at 20mm, really liked it, then went back to 35wt and the steering came back and was predictable and not twitchy. I also tried more and less rear droop and found that I preferred 26.75 in rear. Believe it or not, the difference between 26.5 and 26.75 in the rear was pretty apparent. It wasn't make or break, but you could tell, and one was definitely better than the other at our track.

I also have been doing some tire testing and returned to running ions instead of electron fronts because the ions are far more stable and predictable due to having denser tread at the edges and the nice stability rib on the sides.

I have given up completely on closed cell front foams on 2wd. They just don't fill up the tires or last. They fill up the tires when the tires are new, but after a few club races of traction compound, the tires expand enough that even new closed cell foam doesn't fill them up completely and they slide around. I've gone back to 2/3 - 3/4 of a rear open cell foam cut down and profiled by hand. Slightly softer than a closed cell front, but the entire tire fills up firm. Seriously feels so much better on the track and makes re-foaming fronts a breeze. They also last about the same as a closed cell for me. I've compared AKA and blue PL.
Interesting that the car is that sensitive to droop. On your front tires, your using the foams that come with JC tires? even at 3/4 rear they are much softer for me than a closed cell, we've been known to put a 4wd closed in the front when the tire stretches.
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Old 01-14-2015, 07:30 AM   #10489
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Originally Posted by Razathorn View Post
Most recent setup from doing droop tuning at Fastlane tonight. I found that 37.5 made my car feel really good in the front over the weekend, so today I watered the track, and found that it was better than 35 when the track was tacky, but the car still felt too twitchy. I noticed that nobody on the team has really ever ran 37.5 oil in the front, so I decided it must be front droop that was to blame. That it was. I ended up back at 20mm, really liked it, then went back to 35wt and the steering came back and was predictable and not twitchy. I also tried more and less rear droop and found that I preferred 26.75 in rear. Believe it or not, the difference between 26.5 and 26.75 in the rear was pretty apparent. It wasn't make or break, but you could tell, and one was definitely better than the other at our track.
Similar experience to what I have had. Ive found the rear of our 2wds (B5 and B4) to be very sensitive to droop, especially if the track is a little bumpy. Too much droop on the front and the car loses precision from the front end. As a track gets rougher, adding rear droop really helps stability on turn-in.

I generally build my shocks with 1 extra limiter than what I show on the setup sheets, and wind the shocks out 1.5 turns (0.7mm, the same as 1 limiter) to match the desired length. If it gets really grippy, its easy to wind the shock in. If its very rough, you can wind it out another 1,5 turns (any more and you risk puling the shock end off the rod). You can definitely feel a half turn increment.

Ive also found I like the 1.7 rear pistons on our tracks (which tend to be bumpy). I feel they give better mechanical grip feel. I use 32.5wt in the cool, 35wt if its hot or grippy. I personally like the feel of 27.0mm.

This setup was really nice to drive on an outdoor track with good grip and some bumps on the surface:
http://keilorrc.org.au/setups/2014_B...Vic_Titles.pdf

Ray
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Old 01-14-2015, 07:57 AM   #10490
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I have given up completely on closed cell front foams on 2wd. They just don't fill up the tires or last. They fill up the tires when the tires are new, but after a few club races of traction compound, the tires expand enough that even new closed cell foam doesn't fill them up completely and they slide around. I've gone back to 2/3 - 3/4 of a rear open cell foam cut down and profiled by hand. Slightly softer than a closed cell front, but the entire tire fills up firm. Seriously feels so much better on the track and makes re-foaming fronts a breeze. They also last about the same as a closed cell for me. I've compared AKA and blue PL.
You might consider JConcept's Dirt techs. This last set I have even duct tape the foam to help make them last longer. Which in my experience so far the duration comparison goes like this. DirtTechs > AKA > Proline (blue dusters). Haven't tried the newer Proline's yet.
Much of the problem is tire stretching so its time to start finding some other traction compound ideas that condition the rubber more instead or you could just cut a section out and snug them back up... I haven't gone that route yet.
If you're bent on sticking with open cells for now you will be far better off taping the foams. I wouldn't even consider running open cells without doing it, in any condition, period. Just so much more consistent with profile.
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:00 AM   #10491
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What is the consensus on the Xfactory chassis? I've yet to really hear anything good about it.
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:25 AM   #10492
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What is the consensus on the Xfactory chassis? I've yet to really hear anything good about it.
Go to their thread and they will tell you until they're blue in the face that its the best thing since sliced bread and they invented midmotor design.
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:37 AM   #10493
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lol, yeah. I saw their new thread title...it made me laugh
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:39 AM   #10494
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Originally Posted by MikeXray View Post
Interesting that the car is that sensitive to droop. On your front tires, your using the foams that come with JC tires? even at 3/4 rear they are much softer for me than a closed cell, we've been known to put a 4wd closed in the front when the tire stretches.
I have taken a closed cell for the 2.2 inch wheel and used that for the 2.4 inch wheels/tires. I don't seem to have the gap, at least not as bad as a purpose cut 2.4 closed cell insert, and it seems to not break down as fast as the 2.4 inserts. I imagine track conditions and traction compounds used will have an effect too. Anyway, just thought I would share.
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Old 01-14-2015, 09:49 AM   #10495
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Go to their thread and they will tell you until they're blue in the face that its the best thing since sliced bread and they invented midmotor design.
That thread title is classic I would love to say more, but I'm not going to.
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Old 01-14-2015, 09:58 AM   #10496
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I've got some tires that vary in diameter. Just by changing tires it affects ride height by 2mm. What do you guys feel is more important. Keeping the ride height the same so CG is not changed or leaving the shock collars in the same position so the arm angles stay the same? Thoughts and theories please...
Anyone??
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Old 01-14-2015, 10:03 AM   #10497
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Anyone??
IMO the correct ride high is needed. So that is what I would go for
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Old 01-14-2015, 10:14 AM   #10498
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I've got some tires that vary in diameter. Just by changing tires it affects ride height by 2mm. What do you guys feel is more important. Keeping the ride height the same so CG is not changed or leaving the shock collars in the same position so the arm angles stay the same? Thoughts and theories please...
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Anyone??
At first I was going to come in here and give you the speal about ride height.. buuuttt.... now that I am putting some thought to this.. I am not so sure. Not only does your ride height increase, your CG raises, and your RC raises. Going with a tire that is bigger and bigger, eventually it just won't work any more.

I think in this case... You may want to split the difference? (guessing). I would try it in all 3 positions and see what feels best on the track (1-same arm angles, 2-corrected ride height, 3-split the difference)
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Old 01-14-2015, 11:17 AM   #10499
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You might consider JConcept's Dirt techs. This last set I have even duct tape the foam to help make them last longer. Which in my experience so far the duration comparison goes like this. DirtTechs > AKA > Proline (blue dusters). Haven't tried the newer Proline's yet.
Much of the problem is tire stretching so its time to start finding some other traction compound ideas that condition the rubber more instead or you could just cut a section out and snug them back up... I haven't gone that route yet.
If you're bent on sticking with open cells for now you will be far better off taping the foams. I wouldn't even consider running open cells without doing it, in any condition, period. Just so much more consistent with profile.
On the traction compound front, I have made strides in using less to prevent the stretching--like each application is far less... just enough to make the tires look blacker, not wet looking. Seems to be working.

On the front foam front, I actually prefer the open cell feel in the front of 2wd. Our track can get pretty dry, and closed cell pushes like a mug until it's just about worn out and useless when the track is dry. The trick is getting the foam stiff enough to not be dumb when the traction is high. I've got refoaming tires down pat, and my open cells last pretty long—especially since I use my own washing rig and really the foams never get wet. I've gone through two closed cells and am now on foam #3 (open cell) in the current set of tires, and I haven't even touched the outside bead. I'm seriously good at refoaming like an art form and am getting good life from the open cells in the front. I'm afraid if I taped them I wouldn't get the profile right. As it is right now, they fill up the tire and are amazing. Most people who feel my fronts are surprised when I tell them they're open cell. To each his own I guess. I'm very happy with the results so far. Closed cell won't ever just expand like stuffing an oversized open cell in there and letting it go, and if it did, it would be too hard to be useful in the front tire. Closed cell in the rear and 4wd front for sure, but I'm pretty sold on continuing to do my own open cell 2wd front thing since it took a while to develop the method and perfect it.

FWIW, the blue pl inserts that come in electrons last really well. I don't know if they changed something, they're still dusty, but they last longer than the tire, which didn't used to be the case for those foams. I'm not saying the tire life is all that short either. It's shorter than say a bar code, but not much. They also continue to work when damn near bald! I've never cut out a blue foam to re-use it, because I seriously doubt it would last much after the tire, but here lately, the blue pl foam has been really out performing it's previous years performance when I tried it last, and they really fit well with the new PL tires, and are starting to come with the tires instead of open cell. Really pleased with the PL package lately, and I'm not sponsored by them, so it's pure choice.

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Old 01-14-2015, 11:23 AM   #10500
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Interesting that the car is that sensitive to droop. On your front tires, your using the foams that come with JC tires? even at 3/4 rear they are much softer for me than a closed cell, we've been known to put a 4wd closed in the front when the tire stretches.
It's not that it's that sensitive, it's that its observable. If you would have asked if I could feel .25mm of droop, I would have said no. I would have been wrong. It was good either way, just one was definitely better. Just a little more droop had me not using as much brake to get the car to turn in a few places, but with no loss of grip that comes from risking using that much brake.

On the foams, I honestly don't know what white foam is in there. It was most likely PL foams since I haven't ran JC in a long time.
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