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Old 12-15-2014, 01:19 PM   #9691
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Default B5m setup

What effect will going from 5 degrees to 0 degrees of caster have on the car?I'm looking for more mid-to-exit steering..
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Old 12-15-2014, 01:26 PM   #9692
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Originally Posted by Razathorn View Post
Man, I'm really not liking my B5M that much right now. Something in the rear end is really wonky on all the setups I've tried and those I've come up with on my own. I'm really of the opinion that the team setups are kinda just on the edge of working right and my experience has been that if you change them much, the whole car just comes unglued. This is a rather different experience than when I had my RB6 MM which was kinda polar opposite in the fact that you could really hork the setup and it was hard to get the thing to drive horribly. The B5M just seems like all ducks have to be in a row for the thing to not be just an absolute hand full on the track. Try and change the setup even in small amounts and rear gets affected like you just threw a dart at the wall or rolled the dice.

Now, I don't want to speak bad of the platform, I'm sure I can figure it out, but I guess I'm just registering my opinion now that the team setups are just kinda far out there and going the wrong direction in my opinion. I could be wrong, I'm ready to admit that is a definite possibility, but I feel the rear end of the car is really struggling from a design perspective with the correct balance between high speed and low speed chassis roll. To me, it feels like the rear end's progression is wrong, like the thing has too much chassis roll initially, but wants it deeper in the corner. The fact that any time I put green springs on, the thing feels like instant poop instead of just a little off leads me to believe it's just sitting on the edge of the rear end working. It reminds me of when we went to the big bores on the b4 platform and the rear was just so different and broken initially until we figured it out.

I'm going to spend some serious time with geometry, rear roll center, perhaps sway bars, and shock angles. Something's funny with the platform in general IMHO.

Take it or leave it.

Wayne
Since I've seen you post a lot good info I'm going to go with that it's not built wrong, and you've verified all the ball cups are free, I think this catches a lot of people out, included the guy I bought my 2nd car from, they were not good, no wonder I got a great deal I went from 2 rb6s to 2 B5m with a b5R first, I run on med grip clay mix with SS style tires and car has more overall grip than the RB6 and better steering. I never tried the gullwing front arms, but it sounds like they might be a factor, if you want I can send you my current setup which came from a local AE team guy.
Inline battery may also help, for me it carves a better steering arc, with sideways the rear is less predictable when breaking free.
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Old 12-15-2014, 01:31 PM   #9693
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Post up the setup you have Mike. Always good to see what other people are doing.
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Old 12-15-2014, 05:05 PM   #9694
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Yea Raza, would like to see where you are at and maybe head you back in the right direction. My car is about on rails right now. Just gonna try a few more things before the sway bars come out.
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Old 12-15-2014, 05:09 PM   #9695
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Originally Posted by sheeldzy View Post
What effect will going from 5 degrees to 0 degrees of caster have on the car?I'm looking for more mid-to-exit steering..
Less caster means more turn in.
More caster means more exit steering.
Now if you adjust it solely through kick up you will be affecting weight transfer noticibly and also a little bit of jumping.
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Old 12-15-2014, 05:23 PM   #9696
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will increasing kickup add or subtract exit steering? thanks
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Old 12-15-2014, 05:29 PM   #9697
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Inline battery up against the servo with the reciever behind it next to the motor? Just wondering going to try that next but looking for some input before I cut up the plastic.

Thanks Chris
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Old 12-15-2014, 05:34 PM   #9698
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Originally Posted by sheeldzy View Post
will increasing kickup add or subtract exit steering? thanks
I answered this already. Kick up affects caster unless you adjust the front hubs independently of the kick up.
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Old 12-15-2014, 05:38 PM   #9699
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Originally Posted by Razathorn View Post
Man, I'm really not liking my B5M that much right now. Something in the rear end is really wonky on all the setups I've tried and those I've come up with on my own. I'm really of the opinion that the team setups are kinda just on the edge of working right and my experience has been that if you change them much, the whole car just comes unglued. This is a rather different experience than when I had my RB6 MM which was kinda polar opposite in the fact that you could really hork the setup and it was hard to get the thing to drive horribly. The B5M just seems like all ducks have to be in a row for the thing to not be just an absolute hand full on the track. Try and change the setup even in small amounts and rear gets affected like you just threw a dart at the wall or rolled the dice.

Now, I don't want to speak bad of the platform, I'm sure I can figure it out, but I guess I'm just registering my opinion now that the team setups are just kinda far out there and going the wrong direction in my opinion. I could be wrong, I'm ready to admit that is a definite possibility, but I feel the rear end of the car is really struggling from a design perspective with the correct balance between high speed and low speed chassis roll. To me, it feels like the rear end's progression is wrong, like the thing has too much chassis roll initially, but wants it deeper in the corner. The fact that any time I put green springs on, the thing feels like instant poop instead of just a little off leads me to believe it's just sitting on the edge of the rear end working. It reminds me of when we went to the big bores on the b4 platform and the rear was just so different and broken initially until we figured it out.

I'm going to spend some serious time with geometry, rear roll center, perhaps sway bars, and shock angles. Something's funny with the platform in general IMHO.

Take it or leave it.

Wayne

I was having pretty much the same issues you explained here, it seems like most setups around the Web are just at the edge of being out of control when pushing them hard. I had to create my own setup to fit my driving style. My car has a ton of rear traction and it's extremely predictable all the time. It still had a bunch of steering g as well. I'm not saying this will solve your problems but I know this setup has worked extremely well for me and my driving style and track conditions. It's even pretty different from what other people are using at my track. I've ran this setup in both mod and stock with great success. Only difference in mod is I ran all the stock drive train components (no lightweight stuff)

Last edited by mjbtaco; 12-16-2014 at 01:59 AM.
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Old 12-15-2014, 05:57 PM   #9700
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Originally Posted by Mason View Post
I answered this already. Kick up affects caster unless you adjust the front hubs independently of the kick up.
Sorry if I don't understand the adjustments fully.If I change the inserts in the front hubs from 5 to 0 and leave the kickup at manual setting,what should I expect for a change?thanks for the help
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Old 12-15-2014, 06:29 PM   #9701
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Originally Posted by bigcracing View Post
Inline battery up against the servo with the reciever behind it next to the motor? Just wondering going to try that next but looking for some input before I cut up the plastic.

Thanks Chris

Best bet is just to try it to see if it works for you, or your set up. I cut mine apart and drilled through the bottom of the chassis, then counter sunk the holes. You can run screws into the bottom of the webbing.....into the same bosses where the battery hold down posts go, this helps make the webbing more ridged.

In any case after you do this it is still possible to re position all the electronics so you can run the battery back cross ways it you don't like it. Even with the webbing cut out.

I just switched mine back to the cross position to try it with my current set up just to see how it works.
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Old 12-15-2014, 06:56 PM   #9702
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Originally Posted by mjbtaco View Post
I was having pretty much the same issues you explained here, it seems like most setups around the Web are just at the edge of being out of control when pushing them hard. I had to create my own setup to fit my driving style. My car has a ton of rear traction and it's extremely predictable all the time. It still had a bunch of steering g as well. I'm not saying this will solve your problems but I know this setup has worked extremely well for me and my driving style and track conditions. It's even pretty different from what other people are using at my track. I've ran this setup in both mod and stock with great success. Only difference in mod is I ran all the stock drive train components (no lightweight stuff)
Omg. That set up sheet is very tight 180 from what I'm running and I'm really curious so i just might try it lol. Why did you decide to do 1 degree in board toe and 3 degrees of anti squat?
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Old 12-15-2014, 07:15 PM   #9703
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Omg. That set up sheet is very tight 180 from what I'm running and I'm really curious so i just might try it lol. Why did you decide to do 1 degree in board toe and 3 degrees of anti squat?
I'm pretty sure 3+1 is the standard setup if I'm not mistaken. I try not to change kick up and inboard toe too much because you can easily get lost in setups when changing those things. If I want to ad more toe I usually do it via the hubs but you can't adjust toe with the aluminum rear hubs. I've had good luck with the stock setup in that regard but everything else is pretty different.

Forgot to mention I use rear motor arms on the car as well.

Last edited by mjbtaco; 12-16-2014 at 01:58 AM.
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Old 12-15-2014, 07:21 PM   #9704
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3-1 is 3 toe and 1 squat
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Old 12-15-2014, 07:32 PM   #9705
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3-1 is 3 toe and 1 squat
There ya go lol didn't even notice I had em switched in the sheet lol sorry about that, that's what happens when you make your sheets on your phone lol. here it is fixed in the sheet.
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