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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Team Associated RC10 B5m Mid-Motor Thread
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:53 AM   #2101
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Originally Posted by PHIL700XCSP View Post
Mine was doing the same thing. We have a hairpin at the end of our straightaway. I moved the rear hubs forward and it removed the hooking all together. Running the base setup besides that change and the car is leaps and bounds better, hope this helps.
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Hey guys,

First off, thanks to all of you who chimed in this morning mostly on page 102 of this thread, asking questions and wanting to try to help me out. I appreciate it.

First off, yes, I live in Orange County and am more or less in the heart / hub of RC racing land. I see and talk to Steven Hartson when I am out at OCRC; he's a way cool guy, and totally friendly. He answers my questions, comes to say what's up, etc. Kody, Wallnuts, and the other guys are around as well, but I don't see or talk to them as often. Unfortunately most of the AE team left earlier this week for the Cactus Classic race, so I'll have to wait until next week or so to get some more direct in person help.

To be clear: I have plenty of normal traction under all circumstances except the 180's.

Yes... tried my buddy's tires from his Serpent. Front. Rear. Both. His tires were a bit better, but it wasn't a huge difference in the hooking issue.

I'm running no drag brake at the moment, so the rear over rotating isn't from that setting. Good thinking though.

I unexpectedly ended up at OCRC today with my buddy to get some wrenching done on some of my older cars. Lead B5 engineer Bob Stellflue showed up, and we hit him up a bit for some ideas after trying to dial the car in more yesterday at LRH. Even at LRH with their high grip, the car still suffered the same same hooking issue on hairpins / 180's. Although we did make some progress by going to an even softer rear spring, and removing the 2mm washer from the rear inner ball studs.

Also spoke to another AE team driver, and it sounds like moving to a 78 spur so the motor can be pushed further back is what a lot of the guys are already doing, so I'll be trying that when I drive the car again Friday. It was also mentioned to be running oils 32/30 with a saddle, but 30/27 with a shorty.

As suggested, I think I might try laying the rear shocks down a little more to see if that helps as well.

Tropmonkey: I might be @ OCRC Friday. I'll find you to say hi. I usually hang with Kellen.

I'll report back this weekend to see if I got this hooking issue cleared up. That is my only issue with the car.

Thanks,
Jesse

Reading about roll center and wheelbase changes from different sources always confuses me. I thought shortening the wheelbase/moving rear hubs forward and removing the rear inner ballstud washers causes the rear end to rotate or slide more and decrease side bite.
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:54 AM   #2102
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The problems that you guys are talking about with the rear end siding out are going to be very difficult to fix with any setup. It is a byproduct of mid motor. You need more weight on the drive wheels. Definitely don't run a shorty if you have this issue. Your tires need a certain amount of pressure on them to effectively work. It doesn't matter where the weight is in that regards.
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:56 AM   #2103
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Balisario you are correct. You are making it worse by shortening wheel width and having a high roll center. A quick way to check if your going in the right direction would be to widen the link lenght to the outside hole on the rear hub.
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:57 AM   #2104
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What inserts for the AKA Typos? I was thinking Ions up front
AKA red inserts. I think they come with them.

Ions are good up front, I run them and like them.

Last edited by FlyByWire; 03-13-2014 at 11:28 AM. Reason: "good" not "god"
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:58 AM   #2105
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It's always hard to say exactly without comparing how much the car is rolling front to back.

1st thing I'd try is going less droop in the front, more in the rear (I usually do this just by tightening the shock eyelet and measuring the exposed shaft. A lot easier than ripping open shocks all the time to add or remove limiters). I've learned that shock length has a profound effect on handling and steering under severe braking.

More washers under the ball stud will make the front end roll more which "should" make it less aggressive. I say should because if it's rolling too much then it could just make it worse.

I ascribe to Fredwain's tuning methodology that I use springs and oil in concert to handle bumps and more roll center changes and such for handling itself.

More caster will also help tone things down.

Someone at the track last night was running a basically box setup B5M from what he'd said and it looked like it was rolling wayyy too much to me. So if you want to play with roll in the front do some extremes. Add a 2mm washer or drop it to no washers to expirement. Make the link as short as possible then as long as possible.

I'd say that Charlie Perez Setup Hints is also a good reference. I reference it regularly as well as this thread
Understanding Roll center
and this thread
Tune with Camber Links
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:01 AM   #2106
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Balisario you are correct. You are making it worse by shortening wheel width and having a high roll center. A quick way to check if your going in the right direction would be to widen the link lenght to the outside hole on the rear hub.
Well moving the rear hubs forward places more weight on the rear wheels. On the X6 cubed pretty much everyone runs the arms and hubs forward to take advantage of this.

The thing I've found to be the #1 tuning aid for me to tame large weight transfer situation tuning has been shock length.
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:31 AM   #2107
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Well moving the rear hubs forward places more weight on the rear wheels. On the X6 cubed pretty much everyone runs the arms and hubs forward to take advantage of this.

The thing I've found to be the #1 tuning aid for me to tame large weight transfer situation tuning has been shock length.
I am new to mm tuning but I have a wheeler that is dialed. The key to tuning this from what I feel the car Is making the car more stable and to focus on gaining more fwd traction. I lengthened rear link and went to c hub on insert.
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:42 AM   #2108
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Quite funny how expensive this shock tower is right now

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321343261129...84.m1423.l2648
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:47 AM   #2109
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Quite funny how expensive this shock tower is right now

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321343261129...84.m1423.l2648
Im about to sell off parts on my car! Double the money I paid ha
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Old 03-13-2014, 12:04 PM   #2110
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The box setup (with box springs) are on the soft side. I often see guys with the problem of the rear end coming around after coming off the gas; this is is often one of two things.
1. too much drag brake
2. Too soft of a spring on the front allowing the car to transfer too much weight to the front and the rear gets light.

I've been running between the gray front and green front springs depending on how much front end bite I need and how rough the track is.

On the rear I've been sticking with white. Please note I'm running with a ultra shorty pack with a running weight of around 1510g, running weight when at OCRC without added weight is around 1490

If you're running with a FULL SQ pack on a high bite clay track like OCRC then I would say you REALLY need to go up on the springs from the stock ones, like bad!

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Old 03-13-2014, 12:04 PM   #2111
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I think I'll buy a car just to part it out on ebay!
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Old 03-13-2014, 12:11 PM   #2112
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I've got a B5M sitting in a box I'm going to sell for retail... seems like I should gouge some people now hahaha
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Old 03-13-2014, 12:22 PM   #2113
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I've got a B5M sitting in a box I'm going to sell for retail... seems like I should gouge some people now hahaha
Hell if you can catch one on eBay, they're selling for 335
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Old 03-13-2014, 12:22 PM   #2114
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. see next.
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Old 03-13-2014, 12:24 PM   #2115
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The axle being too short should never destroy a bearing with the proper size crush tube in the middle.

The stock axles are too long so they're sloppy. I would guess that's why the clamping axles are shorter.

You may want to shim the crush tube on the inside if you have small OD 5mm ID shims.
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Yes too short of an axle will cause this.there is no room for shims, that is not the problem. the problem is the distance from the lip on axle to inside of aluminum hex is too short, it pinches the bearings when you tighten the wheel. i just talked to nick at associated and they are taking care of it.
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So i went thru 8 front wheel bearings yesterday. Did some measuring found the front clamping hexes are 9.85 mm when clamped and stock front axles are 10.12. Basiclly associated f'ed up and made them too narrow and it destroys the. bearings.and no my stock axles dont have the too tight issue.
just to update this i raced last night and practiced probably 8 packs total. all bearings still good running with stock axles. the bearings got damaged with the clamping hexes in 3 packs.
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