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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Team Associated RC10 B5m Mid-Motor Thread
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:01 AM   #181
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the Picture of the new B5 gearbox tells that the top slipper axle/gear is 20. (same as B4 ?)

The idler gear is 31 on B5 (was 28 on B4?)

the Diffgear is 52 (same as B4?)
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:13 AM   #182
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Why on earth did they use 4 gears in the transmission? Considering they needed a new case anyhow, it would have been easier to keep the motor orientation and use a single idler just like older designs. You could use the same motor plate on both the mid and rear motor configurations if they did that.

The only reason I could see for this is to make slipper adjustment easier with tires on, but it puts weight higher and adds unnecessary parts.


As for me, I'll wait until an FT or .1 kit comes out... So much has changed that there will definitely be bugs to work out. Don't want to go back to plastic rear hubs, either. Aluminum and CF for me back there.
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:27 AM   #183
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I would imagine that plenty of companies tried out a motor orientation to use a 3-gear transmission instead of 4 and found that the 4 gear box was better. Why? I have no idea.. It might even be because it pushes the motor forward just a tad bit more than 3 gears would.

I'm in the same boat though, no B5 for me until bugs have been worked out. I can't afford getting new 'needed' upgrades and not to mention new batteries that will fit
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:40 AM   #184
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When considering the transmission gears you might want to think about motor torque...
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:45 AM   #185
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I would imagine that plenty of companies tried out a motor orientation to use a 3-gear transmission instead of 4 and found that the 4 gear box was better. Why? I have no idea.. It might even be because it pushes the motor forward just a tad bit more than 3 gears would.
I thought they did it because all they needed to do was essentially slap a Centro gearbox on it. Not that idlers are heavy, but every gear is adding some drag and complexity. The Centro had to be made like that because they reused the rear motor plate/cover. It looks like AE did some additional machining and mold making, so I can't fathom why they just reused it.

Luckily, I have batteries that fit because I've been running shorties since soon after they became popular. No squares yet, though.
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:49 AM   #186
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The original X-6 used a 3 gear box.
The new X-6 box is 4-gear.

The rotor rotation is why 4-gear is mostly used.
The rotor in motor is rotating in same direction as in a RM car with a 3 gear box.

In very highgrip track on carpet ,astroturf maybe a 3 gear box is better.?
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:57 AM   #187
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When considering the transmission gears you might want to think about motor torque...
There are 3 gears in a RM transmission, so I don't see how the motor's torque would make a MM car require 4 gears. But I never took more than a semester of physics and have never taken an engineering class so it might just be my lack of knowledge

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The original X-6 used a 3 gear box.
The new X-6 box is 4-gear.

The rotor rotation is why 4-gear is mostly used.
The rotor in motor is rotating in same direction as in a RM car with a 3 gear box.

In very highgrip track on carpet ,astroturf maybe a 3 gear box is better.?
See, examples like this make me wonder why the 4gear transmission is better. They obviously switched from a 3gear to a 4gear box for a reason. I almost wonder if we should be switching motor orientations on RM cars to fit 4 gear boxes in RM instead of 3 gears
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Old 01-03-2014, 12:15 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FantomLeopard View Post
There are 3 gears in a RM transmission, so I don't see how the motor's torque would make a MM car require 4 gears. But I never took more than a semester of physics and have never taken an engineering class so it might just be my lack of knowledge ......See, examples like this make me wonder why the 4gear transmission is better. They obviously switched from a 3gear to a 4gear box for a reason. I almost wonder if we should be switching motor orientations on RM cars to fit 4 gear boxes in RM instead of 3 gears
Check this post out:

Mid motor vs rear motor for U.S. Tracks

From this thread:

Mid motor vs rear motor for U.S. Tracks
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Old 01-03-2014, 12:27 PM   #189
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4 gears are used because of motor torque. Not that you need an additional gear to handle the AMOUNT of torque...but that additional gear allows for the ROTATION and TORQUE effect on the chassis during acceleration and deceleration to be the optimum direction for handling.
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Old 01-03-2014, 12:27 PM   #190
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3 and 4 gear transmission have different affect with respect to forward traction and on power steering.

I believe the 4 gear adds forward traction and reduced on power steering. This is directly related to t torque of the motor. They do however carry more mid corner speed.

That is why Dirt Oval guys(which have been running mid motor since the 90's) prefer the 3 gear. Traction is usually really high with foam tires.
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Old 01-03-2014, 12:41 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazzBarlow7 View Post
4 gears are used because of motor torque. Not that you need an additional gear to handle the AMOUNT of torque...but that additional gear allows for the ROTATION and TORQUE effect on the chassis during acceleration and deceleration to be the optimum direction for handling.
basically your starting and stopping more mass (extra gear), that is how I read your statement. The serpent allows your to shift the positions of the 3 gear to change bind, so that might even come into play with the 4 gear.
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Old 01-03-2014, 12:56 PM   #192
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basically your starting and stopping more mass (extra gear), that is how I read your statement. The serpent allows your to shift the positions of the 3 gear to change bind, so that might even come into play with the 4 gear.
You're kinda on the right track with "more mass"...but it's not the mass of the additional 4th gear in the transmission. It's the mass of the rotor in the motor itself. In a 3 gear transmission on a mid-motor configuration, the motor would essentially be running "backwards" compared to a 4 gear transmission.
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Old 01-03-2014, 01:00 PM   #193
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With a dedicated MM design, couldn't they achieve the correct motor rotation direction with a 3-gear? You'd be free to orient the output shaft to either side of the car. Or would that still require motor rotation (and the likely timing problems) reversal?
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Old 01-03-2014, 01:00 PM   #194
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I got the impression he was referring to a purpose built 3 gear that has the same rotation as the 3 gear RM. Not a flipped one. I just wanted to clarify.
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Old 01-03-2014, 01:03 PM   #195
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With a dedicated MM design, couldn't they achieve the correct motor rotation direction with a 3-gear? You'd be free to orient the output shaft to either side of the car. Or would that still require motor rotation (and the likely timing problems) reversal?
Each additional gear would change the motor rotation 180 degrees. Simple physics. The location (left vs right) of the output shaft would not matter. Rotation is rotation.
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