54LikesTeam Associated RC10 B5m Mid-Motor Thread
03-09-2017, 12:23 AM - Wikipost
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02-27-2016, 09:04 AM
It took 10 years to get from the B4 to the B5 - and you guys think a B6 will come within 2 of the B5?
I'll assume none of you guys work in product production, but producing molded plastic isn't cheap, at all. The molds themselves are custom one-off CNC machined. They are VERY expensive, and it takes some time to get your money back on them before you make a large redesign.
Sure, I bet you'd see a ".1" series within the next year or two, but it's hardly going to be earth shattering. The next year will be filled with special edition models to help sales flood the market and recover costs plus profits on the current design. I'd even bet theirs a legit "factory team" model at some point, but don't hold your breath waiting.
I'll assume none of you guys work in product production, but producing molded plastic isn't cheap, at all. The molds themselves are custom one-off CNC machined. They are VERY expensive, and it takes some time to get your money back on them before you make a large redesign.
Sure, I bet you'd see a ".1" series within the next year or two, but it's hardly going to be earth shattering. The next year will be filled with special edition models to help sales flood the market and recover costs plus profits on the current design. I'd even bet theirs a legit "factory team" model at some point, but don't hold your breath waiting.
02-27-2016, 10:05 AM
The market and the rc scene has changed too much since the ten year old B4 platform. Today AE is competing with more than just a couple other companies. Not saying i am 100% on but from what i am seeing and hearing i feel pretty confident something new is in the works.
They won the worlds against all of the publicly available specialty cars. Kody is a DAMN sharp engineer for 1/10th scale, and that laydown car was spectacular.
Basic business 101 says that you want to turn a profit before you spend tons of cash to build a new model. AE is not being beat at a high level because of the car - the factory won't let that happen. That doesn't mean turning out new publicly available cars, it means turning out custom needed parts to make sure they win. CNCing a few delrin parts for your factory drivers is cheap compared to making molds and making it publicly available.
The b5m is not being beat because it's an inferior car. They get beat by better drivers and cars on par with them.
Yokomo, Losi, Xray, HB etc can turn out a new car every month - they won't beat AE because their car is better, they can win if their car is on par AND their drivers are better.
This hobby is STILL 90% driver, and 10% car. Hell, we saw what many called an inferior car the 22 2.0 was win SEVERAL times because their top drivers are DAMN fast.
For some reason though, at the lower level that you and I are at, racers are convinced the car somehow holds them back, and we need the newest and greatest car and parts to win. It's consumerism being 100% effective in the market.
AE is doing it right - new car when it's absolutely needed (switch to mid motor..) and then refining from there. I think they're doing is better also because they recognized the HUGE 17.5 market in the USA, and turned out the Lite car.
Look at brands like Xray - smart guys, but completely missed the ball on a capable car for 17.5 market. (no smaller spur gears..). Look at yokomo - they've actually gone backwards in a sorts. Dropped a new car with the motor very far forward, only to develop a 3 gear a full year AFTER AE made one for their drivers on dirt surfaces.
Bottomline - is there a specific need for a "b6"? Sure, there always will be when the next generation of refined mid motor cars make the B5m behind - but that time isn't now.
02-27-2016, 10:26 AM
Tech Initiate
what is everyones thought on a laydwon/LCG transmission? Ive almost got enough spare parts to build a laydown transmission car or i can just rebuild the car i have now. seems like there area few companies making the parts for the conversion and they look very nice.
02-27-2016, 10:36 AM
You post highlights what I am saying:
1: the car they won with at the worlds is not available to the public
2: the only car they make right now is the lite car, which when it was released was advertised as being best for stock racing (so no car for mod?) The lite chassis does not work well at all in mod and no mod drivers use it around here.
3: several tracks are switching to carpet and the B5 is not designed for carpet, or they would have used it at the worlds as is.
4: Consumers will not spend 300 on a car and then another 100-200 to make it work for their needs such as carpet.
5: Xray and Durango have carpet and dirt cars because that is the direction the industry is headed.
Team associated realized how far behind they were at the worlds last year. The B44 could not compete in the hands of the worlds best drivers and the B5 was far from a B5 that the public can buy. So actually they are behind schedule if you ask me. Like it or not carpet racing is here to stay and more tracks will convert as its popularity grows. I have never been fond of carpet but it is what it is. Rear motor is dead and the need for a rear motor and mid motor car is in the past. The now is a carpet and dirt car. Time will tell either way makes for good conversation.
1: the car they won with at the worlds is not available to the public
2: the only car they make right now is the lite car, which when it was released was advertised as being best for stock racing (so no car for mod?) The lite chassis does not work well at all in mod and no mod drivers use it around here.
3: several tracks are switching to carpet and the B5 is not designed for carpet, or they would have used it at the worlds as is.
4: Consumers will not spend 300 on a car and then another 100-200 to make it work for their needs such as carpet.
5: Xray and Durango have carpet and dirt cars because that is the direction the industry is headed.
Team associated realized how far behind they were at the worlds last year. The B44 could not compete in the hands of the worlds best drivers and the B5 was far from a B5 that the public can buy. So actually they are behind schedule if you ask me. Like it or not carpet racing is here to stay and more tracks will convert as its popularity grows. I have never been fond of carpet but it is what it is. Rear motor is dead and the need for a rear motor and mid motor car is in the past. The now is a carpet and dirt car. Time will tell either way makes for good conversation.
02-27-2016, 10:37 AM
More corner speed as the expense of forward bite. However, there are more parts to the equation that need to be answered before a true response could be made.
What surface are you on?
How far off the lead guys are you? 1/10ths of a second, or several seconds a lap?
How good is your throttle control?
What class are you racing?
What weight and balance are you at now?
Are you saucing, and how much grip does the car have after a 5 minute run when the sauce is gone and the tire is hot?
02-27-2016, 10:42 AM
You post highlights what I am saying:
1: the car they won with at the worlds is not available to the public
2: the only car they make right now is the lite car, which when it was released was advertised as being best for stock racing (so no car for mod?) The lite chassis does not work well at all in mod and no mod drivers use it around here.
1: the car they won with at the worlds is not available to the public
2: the only car they make right now is the lite car, which when it was released was advertised as being best for stock racing (so no car for mod?) The lite chassis does not work well at all in mod and no mod drivers use it around here.
2. That's subjective. I loved the lite chassis in mod.
3: several tracks are switching to carpet and the B5 is not designed for carpet, or they would have used it at the worlds as is.
4: Consumers will not spend 300 on a car and then another 100-200 to make it work for their needs such as carpet.
4: Consumers will not spend 300 on a car and then another 100-200 to make it work for their needs such as carpet.
4. Yes they will - look at all the laydown trannies out - they sell because there is a need
5: Xray and Durango have carpet and dirt cars because that is the direction the industry is headed.
Team associated realized how far behind they were at the worlds last year. The B44 could not compete in the hands of the worlds best drivers
and the B5 was far from a B5 that the public can buy. So actually they are behind schedule if you ask me. Like it or not carpet racing is here to stay and more tracks will convert as its popularity grows. I have never been fond of carpet but it is what it is. Rear motor is dead and the need for a rear motor and mid motor car is in the past. The now is a carpet and dirt car. Time will tell either way makes for good conversation.
02-27-2016, 10:42 AM
Tech Initiate
Im on a clay surface that has very good grip. i run mod class and id say im around back of the A guy. I just use liquid wrench for sauce and i think my car gets better as the run goes on.
Basic physics.
More corner speed as the expense of forward bite. However, there are more parts to the equation that need to be answered before a true response could be made.
What surface are you on?
How far off the lead guys are you? 1/10ths of a second, or several seconds a lap?
How good is your throttle control?
What class are you racing?
What weight and balance are you at now?
Are you saucing, and how much grip does the car have after a 5 minute run when the sauce is gone and the tire is hot?
More corner speed as the expense of forward bite. However, there are more parts to the equation that need to be answered before a true response could be made.
What surface are you on?
How far off the lead guys are you? 1/10ths of a second, or several seconds a lap?
How good is your throttle control?
What class are you racing?
What weight and balance are you at now?
Are you saucing, and how much grip does the car have after a 5 minute run when the sauce is gone and the tire is hot?
02-27-2016, 10:48 AM
You post highlights what I am saying:
1: the car they won with at the worlds is not available to the public
2: the only car they make right now is the lite car, which when it was released was advertised as being best for stock racing (so no car for mod?) The lite chassis does not work well at all in mod and no mod drivers use it around here.
3: several tracks are switching to carpet and the B5 is not designed for carpet, or they would have used it at the worlds as is.
4: Consumers will not spend 300 on a car and then another 100-200 to make it work for their needs such as carpet.
5: Xray and Durango have carpet and dirt cars because that is the direction the industry is headed.
Team associated realized how far behind they were at the worlds last year. The B44 could not compete in the hands of the worlds best drivers and the B5 was far from a B5 that the public can buy. So actually they are behind schedule if you ask me. Like it or not carpet racing is here to stay and more tracks will convert as its popularity grows. I have never been fond of carpet but it is what it is. Rear motor is dead and the need for a rear motor and mid motor car is in the past. The now is a carpet and dirt car. Time will tell either way makes for good conversation.
1: the car they won with at the worlds is not available to the public
2: the only car they make right now is the lite car, which when it was released was advertised as being best for stock racing (so no car for mod?) The lite chassis does not work well at all in mod and no mod drivers use it around here.
3: several tracks are switching to carpet and the B5 is not designed for carpet, or they would have used it at the worlds as is.
4: Consumers will not spend 300 on a car and then another 100-200 to make it work for their needs such as carpet.
5: Xray and Durango have carpet and dirt cars because that is the direction the industry is headed.
Team associated realized how far behind they were at the worlds last year. The B44 could not compete in the hands of the worlds best drivers and the B5 was far from a B5 that the public can buy. So actually they are behind schedule if you ask me. Like it or not carpet racing is here to stay and more tracks will convert as its popularity grows. I have never been fond of carpet but it is what it is. Rear motor is dead and the need for a rear motor and mid motor car is in the past. The now is a carpet and dirt car. Time will tell either way makes for good conversation.
Lol you don't need to do a ton of tuning to get the B5M to work on carpet all i did was switch to 3 gear mid and lowered the ride height to 22mm , different tires and it handled fine and fast ran into the top of the field.
02-27-2016, 10:56 AM
I tell everyone, try it, see if you like it. Also, if you won't answer all of my questions, don't even bother replying.
02-27-2016, 10:59 AM
Your saying the B5 is the top of the class because it won the worlds, which is not true. That would be like saying the the Toyota Camry at my local dealership was used by Denny Hamlin to win Daytona last week. That's one thing about RC racing that annoys me is how uneducated people see a car win a big race and think it must be the best car on the market when actually its not on the market.
02-27-2016, 11:04 AM
Your saying the B5 is the top of the class because it won the worlds, which is not true. That would be like saying the the Toyota Camry at my local dealership was used by Denny Hamlin to win Daytona last week. That's one thing about RC racing that annoys me is how uneducated people see a car win a big race and think it must be the best car on the market when actually its not on the market.
At the pro level, the B5 is not holding back the pro drivers, thus making zero need for them to develop a whole new car. It's cheaper for a company to make 1 off parts for a 1 off race to win. Why develop a whole new car, it's cost prohibitive.
At the local level, the B5 is not holding back a local driver, thus making zero need for them to develop a whole new car. Sure, if sales dip, then they will throw out the newest hottest thing to spur the market. Right now from my peon perspective, the B5 is still the most popular car built. So much so, some companies literally only stay in business to develop parts for it, and it alone.
02-27-2016, 11:08 AM
I agree with what you are saying and believe 95% of the racing community would do just as well without the new transmission.
02-27-2016, 11:12 AM
Read my post. I eluded to two different facts:
At the pro level, the B5 is not holding back the pro drivers, thus making zero need for them to develop a whole new car. It's cheaper for a company to make 1 off parts for a 1 off race to win. Why develop a whole new car, it's cost prohibitive.
At the local level, the B5 is not holding back a local driver, thus making zero need for them to develop a whole new car. Sure, if sales dip, then they will throw out the newest hottest thing to spur the market. Right now from my peon perspective, the B5 is still the most popular car built. So much so, some companies literally only stay in business to develop parts for it, and it alone.
At the pro level, the B5 is not holding back the pro drivers, thus making zero need for them to develop a whole new car. It's cheaper for a company to make 1 off parts for a 1 off race to win. Why develop a whole new car, it's cost prohibitive.
At the local level, the B5 is not holding back a local driver, thus making zero need for them to develop a whole new car. Sure, if sales dip, then they will throw out the newest hottest thing to spur the market. Right now from my peon perspective, the B5 is still the most popular car built. So much so, some companies literally only stay in business to develop parts for it, and it alone.
02-27-2016, 11:16 AM
Lol well its there money not my. But on the carpet track i race on at times its far from high grip its constant Med grip when the heat is turn on its warn Ozlite carpet the fiber kind so it feels like your running on a Med grip clay track.
02-27-2016, 12:54 PM
Carpet, here in the US, seems to be a regional thing. I'm unaware of any carpet offroad here in SOCAL. This might be the biggest single market in the US....I've seen video of many European carpet tracks and it hardly seems like offroad to me. I think that carpet is a fad here but not overseas. I have a hard time believing that they are going to replace the B5M....they're probably going to offer a different tranny and a new 5 series 4x4. As much as I've learned to love my new XRay cars, I'm still racing a B5M. If the B5 series was a flop I could see them replacing it, but on the contrary, its huge success. There's no way they are going to spend the money to re-tool and come out with a new car. Since the new line of cars is so durable it seems to be that they will continue to come with new option parts and accessories.
