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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Official Team Associated RC10 B5m Mid-Motor Thread
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:14 AM   #14056
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Once again, I don't know which is better and I didn't even offer an opinion when I asked why AE is moving away from it. I simply asked the question. If they didn't believe in the MM platform it would be a terrible business decision to move away from it because the B5 platform is going to be around for 4-5 more years [at least] . As you guys know AE sticks with their platforms for a long time. I actually think, based on the stuff coming out, that Kyosho and AE are in an all out war for market share. Kyosho's prices are coming down and AE is now starting to offer equivalent products. I've mentioned this before....
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:16 AM   #14057
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lo, did you miss the part where i said fast drivers are still fast with either car, lol. And no way I would run MM on that track. I am also sure Rivkin would crush you with an RM car. MM is not a magic fast pill. And last I saw, that kid from ASU was still crushing you with his RM car on high bite
My mid motor car does power wheelies on this lowbite track. I don't need rear traction, at all.
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:18 AM   #14058
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Once again, I don't know which is better and I didn't even offer an opinion when I asked why AE is moving away from it. I simply asked the question. If they didn't believe in the MM platform it would be a terrible business decision to move away from it because the B5 platform is going to be around for 4-5 more years. As you guys know AE sticks with their platforms for a long time. I actually think, based on the stuff coming out, that Kyosho and AE are in an all out war for market share. Kyosho's prices are coming down and AE is now starting to offer equivalent products. I've mentioned this before....
Some of us are lucky enough to run on the same tracks the pros do. So we run cars like they do. Because their setups support the tracks we drive on. No one is making RM setups, so why buy the car, right. That is how it kinda goes. Follow the leader. But i have seen several videos and pictures of tracks where the locals chose the rm CARS BECAUSE mm JUST DO NOT WORK WELL. caps lock. I am talking about tracks with rooster tailing all the way around the track. Those 80's and early 90's style tracks. On those tracks....I would run RM, at least until I see if I can get MM to work. On race days, I hate to drive cars I am struggling with. Those cars are for practice days.
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:19 AM   #14059
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In the last 20 years tracks have changed a lot as well, just check out the IFMAR Worlds videos from the 90's, loamy tracks and changing conditions, nothing like the super traction, smooth hard clay we run on now. Tires are different, lipo too has had an effect on making buggies lighter, it all played a part to open the door to these new mid motor platforms to really show what they can do.
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:20 AM   #14060
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My mid motor car does power wheelies on this lowbite track. I don't need rear traction, at all.
That is not low bite. Go to the sand dunes and do your wheelies. There are tracks with much lower traction than what you run on.
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:23 AM   #14061
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I couldn't disagree more.

The setup and style for the mid motor car has been figured out. Rear motor cars had 20 years of development, mid motor is only scraping the surface with the current platforms.
All with respect but I dont think that it takes several years to "figure out" MM. IE DEX210 have been around from 2010 or so?

The thing is that MM cars dont have anything major innovative in them. Main point of them is that it moves generally COG forward and in smaller area (which again is tradeof -> you get something but also lose something).
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:32 AM   #14062
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All with respect but I dont think that it takes several years to "figure out" MM. IE DEX210 have been around from 2010 or so?
And is that car "figured out" at all?
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Old 06-05-2015, 11:09 AM   #14063
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There are a dozen threads arguing about which is better, RM or MM, and the differences. This is a car thread, lets stick to the car.
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Old 06-05-2015, 11:17 AM   #14064
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EDIT: OK ill drop this
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Old 06-05-2015, 11:19 AM   #14065
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anyone notice the low rider 3 gear at the worlds warm up? And the non anodized rear hubs?
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Old 06-05-2015, 11:51 AM   #14066
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Originally Posted by Wildcat1971 View Post
Some of us are lucky enough to run on the same tracks the pros do. So we run cars like they do. Because their setups support the tracks we drive on. No one is making RM setups, so why buy the car, right. That is how it kinda goes. Follow the leader. But i have seen several videos and pictures of tracks where the locals chose the rm CARS BECAUSE mm JUST DO NOT WORK WELL. caps lock. I am talking about tracks with rooster tailing all the way around the track. Those 80's and early 90's style tracks. On those tracks....I would run RM, at least until I see if I can get MM to work. On race days, I hate to drive cars I am struggling with. Those cars are for practice days.
Funny you mention rooster tails... There are a couple tracks here that old school and very nice places. One we run flip outs or double dees if its not too fluffy. The other track is goosebumps and only goosebumps! I got rid of my RM to focus solely on MM especially since the T5 is only mid.

This is where knowing how to setup your own cars is huge... Not mention a very very smooth throttle finger! You can't just go to ae's site and slap on a setup for this. I've worked through a few changes and this what made the biggest difference:

Increased droop front and rear by .5-1mm
Tapered Pistons in rear
Brass C and D blocks!!!
78 spur to move that motor back
Plastic hubs with .5 more toe
I even like the gullwing arms because they have a better feel on tracks with sweeping turns.

I was a skeptic for sure on mm working in these conditions. Not anymore! At first I tired the car with 0* hubs and 3.5 inner toe and it was a missle, too much rear bite.
The biggest struggle so far was a hard packed but very rough and dusty track with a point and shoot layout. It took some tuning for sure.
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Old 06-05-2015, 11:54 AM   #14067
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Another thing to note is Chassis flex. I now run the Lite chassis and it has noticeably more flex than the stock which I'll take that over the weight even in mod. My car had more flex than another AE drivers car with stock chassis and cut waterfall. When I put the cut waterfall in my car it was too much flex for my liking and with some BIG jumps and these tracks... Tweaked chassis in no time.
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Old 06-05-2015, 12:35 PM   #14068
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Funny you mention rooster tails... There are a couple tracks here that old school and very nice places. One we run flip outs or double dees if its not too fluffy. The other track is goosebumps and only goosebumps! I got rid of my RM to focus solely on MM especially since the T5 is only mid.

This is where knowing how to setup your own cars is huge... Not mention a very very smooth throttle finger! You can't just go to ae's site and slap on a setup for this. I've worked through a few changes and this what made the biggest difference:

Increased droop front and rear by .5-1mm
Tapered Pistons in rear
Brass C and D blocks!!!
78 spur to move that motor back
Plastic hubs with .5 more toe
I even like the gullwing arms because they have a better feel on tracks with sweeping turns.

I was a skeptic for sure on mm working in these conditions. Not anymore! At first I tired the car with 0* hubs and 3.5 inner toe and it was a missle, too much rear bite.
The biggest struggle so far was a hard packed but very rough and dusty track with a point and shoot layout. It took some tuning for sure.
I have not personally run the Brass rear pieces. Because i never need more grip at my tracks. But, I know a couple guys that tried it. I was told the brass rear pieces defeat the purpose of a MM car, as they make it drive like a RM car. This was indoor on higher bite. I know a few outdoor guys add at least the brass C and a square pack to make the car better. I was mainly running 17.5 buggy and adding 100 grams of brass seemed silly. That was one of the main reasons I ditched the 22 platform. I am very sure you are correct about the rear brass making the car better. I guess when I think about the cars, I think about how the car comes out of the box. The Lite car makes it a much better car out of the box for stock. But the team MM out of the box felt really weak outdoors to me. I always felt that out of the box, the RM car was better outdoors. I guess if you thrown enough mod/parts/upgrades and tuning at any car, you can get it to "work". If i ran MM outdoors, I would probably give the rear brass parts a go and just run mod.
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Old 06-05-2015, 12:43 PM   #14069
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I have not personally run the Brass rear pieces. Because i never need more grip at my tracks. But, I know a couple guys that tried it. I was told the brass rear pieces defeat the purpose of a MM car, as they make it drive like a RM car. This was indoor on higher bite. I know a few outdoor guys add at least the brass C and a square pack to make the car better. I was mainly running 17.5 buggy and adding 100 grams of brass seemed silly. That was one of the main reasons I ditched the 22 platform. I am very sure you are correct about the rear brass making the car better. I guess when I think about the cars, I think about how the car comes out of the box. The Lite car makes it a much better car out of the box for stock. But the team MM out of the box felt really weak outdoors to me. I always felt that out of the box, the RM car was better outdoors. I guess if you thrown enough mod/parts/upgrades and tuning at any car, you can get it to "work". If i ran MM outdoors, I would probably give the rear brass parts a go and just run mod.
Pretty sure the brass c and d only adds 40g. I still run a short pack. I still haven't ran a 3 gear. I have one, just haven't had the time. To me it seems like it'd be a fail on lower grip outdoor but then again I was wrong about mm altogether working outdoor.

For all the casual racers who don't want really tune and/or buy tuning options. I'd recommend the RM just because it's so easy.
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Old 06-05-2015, 12:46 PM   #14070
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Pretty sure the brass c and d only adds 40g. I still run a short pack. I still haven't ran a 3 gear. I have one, just haven't had the time. To me it seems like it'd be a fail on lower grip outdoor but then again I was wrong about mm altogether working outdoor.

For all the casual racers who don't want really tune and/or buy tuning options. I'd recommend the RM just because it's so easy.
And that was my point. Yeah, I can see the flex in the new chassis working better outdoors. The xfactory might be decent also because of it's flex.
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