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Old 05-18-2015, 01:47 PM   #13801
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Originally Posted by Socket View Post
I'm sure if you called AE customer service, or asked Sean Cochran here, they would be delighted to tell you.

Rear bodies are still oos, should be back in stock soon I was told
Ill give them a call, thanks Socket.
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Old 05-18-2015, 01:49 PM   #13802
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My guess would be not for a while. Since they dont make the cheapy pistons yet for the new shafts, they would need to include machines pistons. And for tuning purposes, that might be hard. Unless they packaged in all of the machined pistons. Which would be costly. So, I am going to go on a limb and say long ways out.
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Old 05-18-2015, 02:09 PM   #13803
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Originally Posted by Wildcat1971 View Post
My guess would be not for a while. Since they dont make the cheapy pistons yet for the new shafts, they would need to include machines pistons. And for tuning purposes, that might be hard. Unless they packaged in all of the machined pistons. Which would be costly. So, I am going to go on a limb and say long ways out.

I think you could be right. Hopefully they introduce a set with cheapy pistons sooner rather than later.
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Old 05-18-2015, 02:43 PM   #13804
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Spoke with a rep, no plan to offer the new shock body/shafts in a kit. Bummer
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Old 05-18-2015, 06:12 PM   #13805
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So, it was with trepidation I hit the local SDRC track with my freshly built RC10B5M with the usual smattering of hop ups. Having not raced for 20 years I expected a learning curve on both the clay and 2wd compared to indoor/outdoor 4wd in the old Nimh brushed days.

Safe to say I was all over the place, car didnít handle great from out of the box configuration at least. I left after a few practice sessions a little despondent and scratching my head. Maybe I should have stayed in the 4wd category where the balance is more predictable and controllable.

Anyway, Iím the sort of person to never give up and prefer to debrief myself and break down all the issues I had to take another stab at it again in a couple of weeks time. Here is what I broke down and what I have attempted to do to solve this and make the car more drivable and predictable.

What I experienced;
  • Car was very tail happy in the corners making for difficult line ups for jumps.
  • Car was skittish under acceleration meaning I was trying to control a snaking car down the straights.
  • Off track the car had lots of clay in the tread and it was barely visible.

What I interpret;
  • The tire tread full of clay is likely a result of too much power through the tires making it wheel spin under acceleration and filling tread with clay.
  • The tail happy in corners was likely a result of the now slick tires based on loss of grip and when accelerating around a corner this spinning the car around. Same for skittish in a straight line with each wheel getting different levels of grip.

Setup changes I made;
  • Loosened the Nova Slipper clutch to release the tires from wheel spinning as much.
  • Double checking Differential settings after initial runs.
  • Altered the Orion ESC to;
  • Reduce the turbo acceleration from 7 to 4, again lessening the rapid acceleration to ensure grip was more likely in early range.
  • Implement drag force braking at 10%. Means in neutral the car would naturally slow itself rather than using the more forceful brake action of transmitter.
  • Altered the transmitter to;
  • Increase acceleration range to full movement of trigger instead of full range in 75%. Allows for smoother acceleration.
  • Add a throttle profile to deliver smoother acceleration over 80% of the range and deliver the final 40% in the last 20% of movement. Means that the tires get that little more help to grip before putting the power down.
  • Introduced a throttle curve profile rather than linear.

Things to still do;
  • Get some tire sauce, heavy to medium grade to improve direct grip.

After making the changes and testing outside on concrete I noticed a huge improvement to drivability. Iím not normally a fan of a large number of changes in one go but I needed drastic action.

Any thoughts? Totally wrong approach? I should hang up my transmitter and go kite flying instead?

Happy for any more helpful tips you guys might have.

On a positive note, my gearing was good and all temperatures were low after runs.

Thanks.
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Old 05-18-2015, 06:15 PM   #13806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizarrefish View Post
So, it was with trepidation I hit the local SDRC track with my freshly built RC10B5M with the usual smattering of hop ups. Having not raced for 20 years I expected a learning curve on both the clay and 2wd compared to indoor/outdoor 4wd in the old Nimh brushed days.

Safe to say I was all over the place, car didnít handle great from out of the box configuration at least. I left after a few practice sessions a little despondent and scratching my head. Maybe I should have stayed in the 4wd category where the balance is more predictable and controllable.

Anyway, Iím the sort of person to never give up and prefer to debrief myself and break down all the issues I had to take another stab at it again in a couple of weeks time. Here is what I broke down and what I have attempted to do to solve this and make the car more drivable and predictable.

What I experienced;
  • Car was very tail happy in the corners making for difficult line ups for jumps.
  • Car was skittish under acceleration meaning I was trying to control a snaking car down the straights.
  • Off track the car had lots of clay in the tread and it was barely visible.

What I interpret;
  • The tire tread full of clay is likely a result of too much power through the tires making it wheel spin under acceleration and filling tread with clay.
  • The tail happy in corners was likely a result of the now slick tires based on loss of grip and when accelerating around a corner this spinning the car around. Same for skittish in a straight line with each wheel getting different levels of grip.

Setup changes I made;
  • Loosened the Nova Slipper clutch to release the tires from wheel spinning as much.
  • Double checking Differential settings after initial runs.
  • Altered the Orion ESC to;
  • Reduce the turbo acceleration from 7 to 4, again lessening the rapid acceleration to ensure grip was more likely in early range.
  • Implement drag force braking at 10%. Means in neutral the car would naturally slow itself rather than using the more forceful brake action of transmitter.
  • Altered the transmitter to;
  • Increase acceleration range to full movement of trigger instead of full range in 75%. Allows for smoother acceleration.
  • Add a throttle profile to deliver smoother acceleration over 80% of the range and deliver the final 40% in the last 20% of movement. Means that the tires get that little more help to grip before putting the power down.
  • Introduced a throttle curve profile rather than linear.

Things to still do;
  • Get some tire sauce, heavy to medium grade to improve direct grip.

After making the changes and testing outside on concrete I noticed a huge improvement to drivability. Iím not normally a fan of a large number of changes in one go but I needed drastic action.

Any thoughts? Totally wrong approach? I should hang up my transmitter and go kite flying instead?

Happy for any more helpful tips you guys might have.

On a positive note, my gearing was good and all temperatures were low after runs.

Thanks.

Wow.

Wow.

Take ALL boost out of the ESC. If you haven't raced in 20 years, boost is the least of your worries.

NO tire sauce allowed at SDRC

If you have the regular B5M kit, get the rear motor rear arms, and shorten the wheel base all of the way. This will provide more forward bite.
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Old 05-18-2015, 06:17 PM   #13807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizarrefish View Post
So, it was with trepidation I hit the local SDRC track with my freshly built RC10B5M with the usual smattering of hop ups. Having not raced for 20 years I expected a learning curve on both the clay and 2wd compared to indoor/outdoor 4wd in the old Nimh brushed days.

Safe to say I was all over the place, car didnít handle great from out of the box configuration at least. I left after a few practice sessions a little despondent and scratching my head. Maybe I should have stayed in the 4wd category where the balance is more predictable and controllable.

Anyway, Iím the sort of person to never give up and prefer to debrief myself and break down all the issues I had to take another stab at it again in a couple of weeks time. Here is what I broke down and what I have attempted to do to solve this and make the car more drivable and predictable.

What I experienced;
  • Car was very tail happy in the corners making for difficult line ups for jumps.
  • Car was skittish under acceleration meaning I was trying to control a snaking car down the straights.
  • Off track the car had lots of clay in the tread and it was barely visible.

What I interpret;
  • The tire tread full of clay is likely a result of too much power through the tires making it wheel spin under acceleration and filling tread with clay.
  • The tail happy in corners was likely a result of the now slick tires based on loss of grip and when accelerating around a corner this spinning the car around. Same for skittish in a straight line with each wheel getting different levels of grip.

Setup changes I made;
  • Loosened the Nova Slipper clutch to release the tires from wheel spinning as much.
  • Double checking Differential settings after initial runs.
  • Altered the Orion ESC to;
  • Reduce the turbo acceleration from 7 to 4, again lessening the rapid acceleration to ensure grip was more likely in early range.
  • Implement drag force braking at 10%. Means in neutral the car would naturally slow itself rather than using the more forceful brake action of transmitter.
  • Altered the transmitter to;
  • Increase acceleration range to full movement of trigger instead of full range in 75%. Allows for smoother acceleration.
  • Add a throttle profile to deliver smoother acceleration over 80% of the range and deliver the final 40% in the last 20% of movement. Means that the tires get that little more help to grip before putting the power down.
  • Introduced a throttle curve profile rather than linear.

Things to still do;
  • Get some tire sauce, heavy to medium grade to improve direct grip.

After making the changes and testing outside on concrete I noticed a huge improvement to drivability. Iím not normally a fan of a large number of changes in one go but I needed drastic action.

Any thoughts? Totally wrong approach? I should hang up my transmitter and go kite flying instead?

Happy for any more helpful tips you guys might have.

On a positive note, my gearing was good and all temperatures were low after runs.

Thanks.
tires are wrong and probably too much power. you are boosting, so there is one issue for a new driver.
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Old 05-18-2015, 06:23 PM   #13808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socket View Post
Wow.

Wow.

Take ALL boost out of the ESC. If you haven't raced in 20 years, boost is the least of your worries.

NO tire sauce allowed at SDRC

If you have the regular B5M kit, get the rear motor rear arms, and shorten the wheel base all of the way. This will provide more forward bite.
Sauce is now allowed at SDRC this month as long as the tires are dry when they go on the track and you're not using diesel fuel or liquid wrench. They're testing it out to make racers :cough:whiners:cough: happier.
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Old 05-18-2015, 06:28 PM   #13809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew_Armeni View Post
Sauce is now allowed at SDRC this month as long as the tires are dry when they go on the track and you're not using diesel fuel or liquid wrench. They're testing it out to make racers :cough:whiners:cough: happier.
and what is in liquid wrench that is so much worse than the proprietary concoction of solvents in the much more expensive "RC tire sauces"?
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Old 05-18-2015, 06:54 PM   #13810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizarrefish View Post
So, it was with trepidation I hit the local SDRC track with my freshly built RC10B5M with the usual smattering of hop ups. Having not raced for 20 years I expected a learning curve on both the clay and 2wd compared to indoor/outdoor 4wd in the old Nimh brushed days.

Safe to say I was all over the place, car didnít handle great from out of the box configuration at least. I left after a few practice sessions a little despondent and scratching my head. Maybe I should have stayed in the 4wd category where the balance is more predictable and controllable.

Anyway, Iím the sort of person to never give up and prefer to debrief myself and break down all the issues I had to take another stab at it again in a couple of weeks time. Here is what I broke down and what I have attempted to do to solve this and make the car more drivable and predictable.

What I experienced;
  • Car was very tail happy in the corners making for difficult line ups for jumps.
  • Car was skittish under acceleration meaning I was trying to control a snaking car down the straights.
  • Off track the car had lots of clay in the tread and it was barely visible.

What I interpret;
  • The tire tread full of clay is likely a result of too much power through the tires making it wheel spin under acceleration and filling tread with clay.
  • The tail happy in corners was likely a result of the now slick tires based on loss of grip and when accelerating around a corner this spinning the car around. Same for skittish in a straight line with each wheel getting different levels of grip.

Setup changes I made;
  • Loosened the Nova Slipper clutch to release the tires from wheel spinning as much.
  • Double checking Differential settings after initial runs.
  • Altered the Orion ESC to;
  • Reduce the turbo acceleration from 7 to 4, again lessening the rapid acceleration to ensure grip was more likely in early range.
  • Implement drag force braking at 10%. Means in neutral the car would naturally slow itself rather than using the more forceful brake action of transmitter.
  • Altered the transmitter to;
  • Increase acceleration range to full movement of trigger instead of full range in 75%. Allows for smoother acceleration.
  • Add a throttle profile to deliver smoother acceleration over 80% of the range and deliver the final 40% in the last 20% of movement. Means that the tires get that little more help to grip before putting the power down.
  • Introduced a throttle curve profile rather than linear.

Things to still do;
  • Get some tire sauce, heavy to medium grade to improve direct grip.

After making the changes and testing outside on concrete I noticed a huge improvement to drivability. Iím not normally a fan of a large number of changes in one go but I needed drastic action.

Any thoughts? Totally wrong approach? I should hang up my transmitter and go kite flying instead?

Happy for any more helpful tips you guys might have.

On a positive note, my gearing was good and all temperatures were low after runs.

Thanks.
Unless there is something terribly wrong with your core car set up a quality driver could take your car and punish most people after a few practice laps.

1.Dial everything down. As others have said definitely No Boost no Turbo etc
2.Dial your radio steering speed down.
3.Dial your radio acceleration speed down.
4. Ask one of your local A-Main drivers to take a look at your car to make sure there is something obviously wrong and if everything seems in order my recommendation is that you shouldn't keep making changes to your set up until your punching out consistent lap times.

5. Apart from that the most important thing is to practice, practice, practice!

All the best with your come back after 20 years away!
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Old 05-18-2015, 06:56 PM   #13811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew_Armeni View Post
Sauce is now allowed at SDRC this month as long as the tires are dry when they go on the track and you're not using diesel fuel or liquid wrench. They're testing it out to make racers :cough:whiners:cough: happier.
Why can I not use LW or Diesel fuel?

I can easily change the smell of either, and you'd never know the difference. How are they testing to see what you have?
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Old 05-18-2015, 07:13 PM   #13812
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We don't want to get started on a sauce discussion. The subject is far too volatile and not necessarily related directly to the B5M. I've lived with sauce controversy for 2 years now at my local tracks so I'd rather us not be discussing it here.
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Old 05-18-2015, 07:24 PM   #13813
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My first race day (track day as well) with the B5M Factory Lite was a good experience. I built the car per the manual, (with the one change of running the "middle" setting on the rear hub carriers) and a set of Electrons that had seen 2-3 race days on my B4.2.

I had not been to a clay track to race for about a year, so I ran the old 4.2 for two batteries to get the feel of the track (IERC, new layout, quite fun). I was running about 26-27 second laps. Brought out the B5M-Factory Lite and on the first battery I was .5 seconds a lap faster (on average). By the end of the night on laps that I ran 'clean' I was in the low 24's (the hot shot class guys were in the 22's, maybe 21's).

Now it is time for some practice laps and some tuning adjustments, but the new car was better than one second a lap faster than the old one, not to bad (the last time I remember a car being so much faster on day one was when I bought my B2 in the lateish 90's to replace my rc10 team car (or maybe my XrayT2 vs. the TC3)
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Old 05-18-2015, 07:59 PM   #13814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizarrefish View Post
So, it was with trepidation I hit the local SDRC track with my freshly built RC10B5M with the usual smattering of hop ups. Having not raced for 20 years I expected a learning curve on both the clay and 2wd compared to indoor/outdoor 4wd in the old Nimh brushed days.

Safe to say I was all over the place, car didnít handle great from out of the box configuration at least. I left after a few practice sessions a little despondent and scratching my head. Maybe I should have stayed in the 4wd category where the balance is more predictable and controllable.

Anyway, Iím the sort of person to never give up and prefer to debrief myself and break down all the issues I had to take another stab at it again in a couple of weeks time. Here is what I broke down and what I have attempted to do to solve this and make the car more drivable and predictable.

What I experienced;
  • Car was very tail happy in the corners making for difficult line ups for jumps.
  • Car was skittish under acceleration meaning I was trying to control a snaking car down the straights.
  • Off track the car had lots of clay in the tread and it was barely visible.

What I interpret;
  • The tire tread full of clay is likely a result of too much power through the tires making it wheel spin under acceleration and filling tread with clay.
  • The tail happy in corners was likely a result of the now slick tires based on loss of grip and when accelerating around a corner this spinning the car around. Same for skittish in a straight line with each wheel getting different levels of grip.

Setup changes I made;
  • Loosened the Nova Slipper clutch to release the tires from wheel spinning as much.
  • Double checking Differential settings after initial runs.
  • Altered the Orion ESC to;
  • Reduce the turbo acceleration from 7 to 4, again lessening the rapid acceleration to ensure grip was more likely in early range.
  • Implement drag force braking at 10%. Means in neutral the car would naturally slow itself rather than using the more forceful brake action of transmitter.
  • Altered the transmitter to;
  • Increase acceleration range to full movement of trigger instead of full range in 75%. Allows for smoother acceleration.
  • Add a throttle profile to deliver smoother acceleration over 80% of the range and deliver the final 40% in the last 20% of movement. Means that the tires get that little more help to grip before putting the power down.
  • Introduced a throttle curve profile rather than linear.

Things to still do;
  • Get some tire sauce, heavy to medium grade to improve direct grip.

After making the changes and testing outside on concrete I noticed a huge improvement to drivability. Iím not normally a fan of a large number of changes in one go but I needed drastic action.

Any thoughts? Totally wrong approach? I should hang up my transmitter and go kite flying instead?

Happy for any more helpful tips you guys might have.

On a positive note, my gearing was good and all temperatures were low after runs.

Thanks.
Next time at the track, ask someone at the front desk to point out several regulars who can check your set up. Stock out of the box should run fine with the correct tires. My guess is that tires are causing your problems. I race on Wed nites and get to the track shortly after opening. Feel free to swing by and introduce yourself and I will check out your setup.

Good luck,

Fred Murray
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Old 05-18-2015, 08:04 PM   #13815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socket View Post
Wow.

Wow.

Take ALL boost out of the ESC. If you haven't raced in 20 years, boost is the least of your worries.

NO tire sauce allowed at SDRC

If you have the regular B5M kit, get the rear motor rear arms, and shorten the wheel base all of the way. This will provide more forward bite.
I know, lengthy post but thought I would post it raw for the benefit of others who might learn.

Noted on the boost. I chose to go out of the box on everything and dial it back, in hindsight I should have dialled right back in the first place .

Good idea on the adds, will consider just that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcat1971 View Post
tires are wrong and probably too much power. you are boosting, so there is one issue for a new driver.
The tires are actually JConcepts barcodes, green/golds so I think they should be okay, definitely power and boosting which I did already touch on but can scale further back for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nat Maniac View Post
Unless there is something terribly wrong with your core car set up a quality driver could take your car and punish most people after a few practice laps.

1.Dial everything down. As others have said definitely No Boost no Turbo etc
2.Dial your radio steering speed down.
3.Dial your radio acceleration speed down.
4. Ask one of your local A-Main drivers to take a look at your car to make sure there is something obviously wrong and if everything seems in order my recommendation is that you shouldn't keep making changes to your set up until your punching out consistent lap times.

5. Apart from that the most important thing is to practice, practice, practice!

All the best with your come back after 20 years away!
Good points on the steering too, missed reducing that speed too. As I build the local track relationships up I'll be sure to grab an A-Main driver, if they will even give me the time of day

Its great to be back after the absence and trying to enjoy the love I had for the hobby again!

Thanks for all the feedback peeps, it helps greatly, I exposed myself with the long post but you need to take the criticism and the feedback constructively :-).
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