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Old 01-17-2015, 10:34 PM   #10576
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You guys are funny. boohoo lightweight this and lightweight that, stock is so expensive boohoo. A decent motor and the right tires and some driving skill are all u need to run ANY class sure a few upgrades help but they aren't required. We have a pair of local guys that run original rc10s in stock and finish top 5 everytime against 20yr newer cars. Makes me laugh my butt off watching a 6 gear aluminum tub car spank guys with brand new cars with every hopup known.
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Old 01-17-2015, 10:57 PM   #10577
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Does anyone have any experience with the aluminum diff gear? How does the diff feel and does it wear your diff balls quicker?
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Old 01-17-2015, 11:29 PM   #10578
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Originally Posted by gooba View Post
You guys are funny. boohoo lightweight this and lightweight that, stock is so expensive boohoo. A decent motor and the right tires and some driving skill are all u need to run ANY class sure a few upgrades help but they aren't required. We have a pair of local guys that run original rc10s in stock and finish top 5 everytime against 20yr newer cars. Makes me laugh my butt off watching a 6 gear aluminum tub car spank guys with brand new cars with every hopup known.
That just means they are decent drivers against guys that can't drive. Put them in a race with people of the same skill level and new cars with all the best stuff, they will get smoked.

Talent beats equipment, but if talented guys have the equipment too (which they usually do) then you need both to compete.
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Old 01-17-2015, 11:35 PM   #10579
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Oh grief, what am I about to do here...

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Originally Posted by Socket View Post
You don't understand it, which is fine.

Driving ability in 17.5 reigns supreme for most. A fast motor is just a nice thing to have. If you hit pipes a ton, it won't matter what motor you have.
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Pretty much same with modified. Except you dont have to spend an extra $200 to get all the super trick lightweight parts to be competitive
You don't even need the trick lightweight parts. If you have the skill to be at the top of mod, then you can throw any old properly geared 17.5 motor from the last two years in your car and clean up in stock, even with a beefcake car. At least that's been my experience: The reason people run stock is because they can't be as competitive in mod... period.

Driving ability doesn't reign supreme in stock. Differences in driving ability of those who remain in stock reigns supreme. There's an important difference, and that is that the people with the supreme driving ability are at the top of the mod classes, not stock. It takes exponentially more skill to drive mod fast than it does to drive stock fast, and the main reason for that is because the cars are actually going fast, the setups really matter, and the differences between good and great drivers really show up.

Whenever a stock guy asks me to drive his car and offer opinions on their car, my response is almost always the same: "Seems fine." I may point out some small thing they could change, but in reality, unless their car is a complete pile of crap, I adapt to it pretty quick and I'm off click'n off good laps. If they ask detailed setup questions like "oh I was going to try X and Y", I struggle to put it nicely, and I really am trying to be the right combination of honest and "not a dick", but it boils down to this: It really doesn't matter on the small stuff. Big stuff, sure... right tires, a setup that isn't completely broke, correct ride height, decent maintenance... but when it comes down to "should I run a 3x1.4 or 1.6 piston in the rear?" It doesn't really matter—it's totally personal preference. The car's just not going fast enough to really work the suspension that hard. The hardest the suspension works is when their car fails to clear a jump and gets it's bones rocked, and that's a roll of the dice.

If the fast mod guys step down to stock, and yes, down is the right word, people complain and moan about it. I've seen it happen. If somebody gets untouchable in stock, people start asking when they're going to "go mod" since they're so fast. So what you're left with is a group of racers that are all similarly matched for skill with a limited top speed. What do you do to get an advantage? You drop money on the best possible motor and electronics that pass tech and the lightest possible car. Then when people ask about the stock class, you provide the standard response about "less about speed and more about driving," even though it takes way more driving and setup skill to compete in the mod classes at the pace they're running. And that's the stock game in a nut shell.

Modern day offroad stock is a SPORTSMAN class. Some will admit it, some will not. Back in the 90s, the fast guys ran stock and the mod class was for goofs with too much power and not enough self control. The kicker is that STOCK OFFROAD is fun as hell. It's competitive. It's a blast. Don't knock it. I keep a 17.5 motor around just in case. Just be honest about what it is.

Wayne
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Old 01-17-2015, 11:39 PM   #10580
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Damn!

Only stock class at the track I run and people make such a fuss about modded trucks being too fast on the straight (small track). But the 17.5's put down more consistent laps because they don't have to control their throttle as much. Sometimes we can slip into a club race but usually someone is complaining.

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Old 01-18-2015, 12:03 AM   #10581
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Damn!

Only stock class at the track I run and people make such a fuss about modded trucks being too fast on the straight (small track). But the 17.5's put down more consistent laps because they don't have to control their throttle as much. Sometimes we can slip into a club race but usually someone is complaining.
At our track, we have a solid set of normal 2wd 17.5, 2wd mod, and 4wd mod racers. Not all of the mod guys are fast, especially in 4wd. None of the fast guys are currently running mod truck, but 2 years back all of us got got stadium trucks and had a good 2-3 months of super competitive mod truck. Then it just disappeared, like tear drops... in the rain.

Wayne
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Old 01-18-2015, 12:13 AM   #10582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razathorn View Post
Oh grief, what am I about to do here...





You don't even need the trick lightweight parts. If you have the skill to be at the top of mod, then you can throw any old properly geared 17.5 motor from the last two years in your car and clean up in stock, even with a beefcake car. At least that's been my experience: The reason people run stock is because they can't be as competitive in mod... period.

Driving ability doesn't reign supreme in stock. Differences in driving ability of those who remain in stock reigns supreme. There's an important difference, and that is that the people with the supreme driving ability are at the top of the mod classes, not stock. It takes exponentially more skill to drive mod fast than it does to drive stock fast, and the main reason for that is because the cars are actually going fast, the setups really matter, and the differences between good and great drivers really show up.

Whenever a stock guy asks me to drive his car and offer opinions on their car, my response is almost always the same: "Seems fine." I may point out some small thing they could change, but in reality, unless their car is a complete pile of crap, I adapt to it pretty quick and I'm off click'n off good laps. If they ask detailed setup questions like "oh I was going to try X and Y", I struggle to put it nicely, and I really am trying to be the right combination of honest and "not a dick", but it boils down to this: It really doesn't matter on the small stuff. Big stuff, sure... right tires, a setup that isn't completely broke, correct ride height, decent maintenance... but when it comes down to "should I run a 3x1.4 or 1.6 piston in the rear?" It doesn't really matter—it's totally personal preference. The car's just not going fast enough to really work the suspension that hard. The hardest the suspension works is when their car fails to clear a jump and gets it's bones rocked, and that's a roll of the dice.

If the fast mod guys step down to stock, and yes, down is the right word, people complain and moan about it. I've seen it happen. If somebody gets untouchable in stock, people start asking when they're going to "go mod" since they're so fast. So what you're left with is a group of racers that are all similarly matched for skill with a limited top speed. What do you do to get an advantage? You drop money on the best possible motor and electronics that pass tech and the lightest possible car. Then when people ask about the stock class, you provide the standard response about "less about speed and more about driving," even though it takes way more driving and setup skill to compete in the mod classes at the pace they're running. And that's the stock game in a nut shell.

Modern day offroad stock is a SPORTSMAN class. Some will admit it, some will not. Back in the 90s, the fast guys ran stock and the mod class was for goofs with too much power and not enough self control. The kicker is that STOCK OFFROAD is fun as hell. It's competitive. It's a blast. Don't knock it. I keep a 17.5 motor around just in case. Just be honest about what it is.

Wayne
Quoted for its pure unadulterated TRUTH!

This my friends IS how it is in RC.
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Old 01-18-2015, 12:21 AM   #10583
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Either of you guys know about running an aluminum ball diff gear?
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Old 01-18-2015, 04:01 AM   #10584
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I feel the same .....done with the pucks crap!


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Ya thats about what I have done every 10-15 days and ya I completely agree with you I think I'm done with the pucks that is just BS that you spend that much money only to have to put more money and maintenance in it than the OEM ones. Hell the stock out drives last 10x as long! It just makes me sick that I've invested all that money into something that Im not going to use anymore!
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Old 01-18-2015, 06:23 AM   #10585
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Originally Posted by SUKKAFISH View Post
Either of you guys know about running an aluminum ball diff gear?
No reason to. This was a carry over mod from years ago when you could ill-set the diff and melt the gear.

Stick to the plastic gear.
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Old 01-18-2015, 06:32 AM   #10586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razathorn View Post
Oh grief, what am I about to do here...





You don't even need the trick lightweight parts. If you have the skill to be at the top of mod, then you can throw any old properly geared 17.5 motor from the last two years in your car and clean up in stock, even with a beefcake car. At least that's been my experience: The reason people run stock is because they can't be as competitive in mod... period.

Driving ability doesn't reign supreme in stock. Differences in driving ability of those who remain in stock reigns supreme. There's an important difference, and that is that the people with the supreme driving ability are at the top of the mod classes, not stock. It takes exponentially more skill to drive mod fast than it does to drive stock fast, and the main reason for that is because the cars are actually going fast, the setups really matter, and the differences between good and great drivers really show up.

Whenever a stock guy asks me to drive his car and offer opinions on their car, my response is almost always the same: "Seems fine." I may point out some small thing they could change, but in reality, unless their car is a complete pile of crap, I adapt to it pretty quick and I'm off click'n off good laps. If they ask detailed setup questions like "oh I was going to try X and Y", I struggle to put it nicely, and I really am trying to be the right combination of honest and "not a dick", but it boils down to this: It really doesn't matter on the small stuff. Big stuff, sure... right tires, a setup that isn't completely broke, correct ride height, decent maintenance... but when it comes down to "should I run a 3x1.4 or 1.6 piston in the rear?" It doesn't really matter—it's totally personal preference. The car's just not going fast enough to really work the suspension that hard. The hardest the suspension works is when their car fails to clear a jump and gets it's bones rocked, and that's a roll of the dice.

If the fast mod guys step down to stock, and yes, down is the right word, people complain and moan about it. I've seen it happen. If somebody gets untouchable in stock, people start asking when they're going to "go mod" since they're so fast. So what you're left with is a group of racers that are all similarly matched for skill with a limited top speed. What do you do to get an advantage? You drop money on the best possible motor and electronics that pass tech and the lightest possible car. Then when people ask about the stock class, you provide the standard response about "less about speed and more about driving," even though it takes way more driving and setup skill to compete in the mod classes at the pace they're running. And that's the stock game in a nut shell.

Modern day offroad stock is a SPORTSMAN class. Some will admit it, some will not. Back in the 90s, the fast guys ran stock and the mod class was for goofs with too much power and not enough self control. The kicker is that STOCK OFFROAD is fun as hell. It's competitive. It's a blast. Don't knock it. I keep a 17.5 motor around just in case. Just be honest about what it is.

Wayne
So right on point. 90% of stock is gearing half a tooth this side of poof!
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Old 01-18-2015, 07:16 AM   #10587
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Really happy with the 3 gear transmission. It definitely lightened up the car, as well as gave the car more punch and top end in 17.5.

The biggest change is the sound - the 3 gear is absolutely quiet. The mesh between the gears are PERFECT.
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Old 01-18-2015, 07:25 AM   #10588
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Originally Posted by Razathorn View Post
Oh grief, what am I about to do here...





You don't even need the trick lightweight parts. If you have the skill to be at the top of mod, then you can throw any old properly geared 17.5 motor from the last two years in your car and clean up in stock, even with a beefcake car. At least that's been my experience: The reason people run stock is because they can't be as competitive in mod... period.

Driving ability doesn't reign supreme in stock. Differences in driving ability of those who remain in stock reigns supreme. There's an important difference, and that is that the people with the supreme driving ability are at the top of the mod classes, not stock. It takes exponentially more skill to drive mod fast than it does to drive stock fast, and the main reason for that is because the cars are actually going fast, the setups really matter, and the differences between good and great drivers really show up.

Whenever a stock guy asks me to drive his car and offer opinions on their car, my response is almost always the same: "Seems fine." I may point out some small thing they could change, but in reality, unless their car is a complete pile of crap, I adapt to it pretty quick and I'm off click'n off good laps. If they ask detailed setup questions like "oh I was going to try X and Y", I struggle to put it nicely, and I really am trying to be the right combination of honest and "not a dick", but it boils down to this: It really doesn't matter on the small stuff. Big stuff, sure... right tires, a setup that isn't completely broke, correct ride height, decent maintenance... but when it comes down to "should I run a 3x1.4 or 1.6 piston in the rear?" It doesn't really matter—it's totally personal preference. The car's just not going fast enough to really work the suspension that hard. The hardest the suspension works is when their car fails to clear a jump and gets it's bones rocked, and that's a roll of the dice.

If the fast mod guys step down to stock, and yes, down is the right word, people complain and moan about it. I've seen it happen. If somebody gets untouchable in stock, people start asking when they're going to "go mod" since they're so fast. So what you're left with is a group of racers that are all similarly matched for skill with a limited top speed. What do you do to get an advantage? You drop money on the best possible motor and electronics that pass tech and the lightest possible car. Then when people ask about the stock class, you provide the standard response about "less about speed and more about driving," even though it takes way more driving and setup skill to compete in the mod classes at the pace they're running. And that's the stock game in a nut shell.

Modern day offroad stock is a SPORTSMAN class. Some will admit it, some will not. Back in the 90s, the fast guys ran stock and the mod class was for goofs with too much power and not enough self control. The kicker is that STOCK OFFROAD is fun as hell. It's competitive. It's a blast. Don't knock it. I keep a 17.5 motor around just in case. Just be honest about what it is.

Wayne

+1 this is so true!!!! You hit the nail on the head.
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Old 01-18-2015, 07:50 AM   #10589
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I think the changed the mold on the 4 gear tranny too so it fits better. I guess it would be a running change.
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Old 01-18-2015, 09:02 AM   #10590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razathorn View Post
Oh grief, what am I about to do here...





You don't even need the trick lightweight parts. If you have the skill to be at the top of mod, then you can throw any old properly geared 17.5 motor from the last two years in your car and clean up in stock, even with a beefcake car. At least that's been my experience: The reason people run stock is because they can't be as competitive in mod... period.

Driving ability doesn't reign supreme in stock. Differences in driving ability of those who remain in stock reigns supreme. There's an important difference, and that is that the people with the supreme driving ability are at the top of the mod classes, not stock. It takes exponentially more skill to drive mod fast than it does to drive stock fast, and the main reason for that is because the cars are actually going fast, the setups really matter, and the differences between good and great drivers really show up.

Whenever a stock guy asks me to drive his car and offer opinions on their car, my response is almost always the same: "Seems fine." I may point out some small thing they could change, but in reality, unless their car is a complete pile of crap, I adapt to it pretty quick and I'm off click'n off good laps. If they ask detailed setup questions like "oh I was going to try X and Y", I struggle to put it nicely, and I really am trying to be the right combination of honest and "not a dick", but it boils down to this: It really doesn't matter on the small stuff. Big stuff, sure... right tires, a setup that isn't completely broke, correct ride height, decent maintenance... but when it comes down to "should I run a 3x1.4 or 1.6 piston in the rear?" It doesn't really matter—it's totally personal preference. The car's just not going fast enough to really work the suspension that hard. The hardest the suspension works is when their car fails to clear a jump and gets it's bones rocked, and that's a roll of the dice.

If the fast mod guys step down to stock, and yes, down is the right word, people complain and moan about it. I've seen it happen. If somebody gets untouchable in stock, people start asking when they're going to "go mod" since they're so fast. So what you're left with is a group of racers that are all similarly matched for skill with a limited top speed. What do you do to get an advantage? You drop money on the best possible motor and electronics that pass tech and the lightest possible car. Then when people ask about the stock class, you provide the standard response about "less about speed and more about driving," even though it takes way more driving and setup skill to compete in the mod classes at the pace they're running. And that's the stock game in a nut shell.

Modern day offroad stock is a SPORTSMAN class. Some will admit it, some will not. Back in the 90s, the fast guys ran stock and the mod class was for goofs with too much power and not enough self control. The kicker is that STOCK OFFROAD is fun as hell. It's competitive. It's a blast. Don't knock it. I keep a 17.5 motor around just in case. Just be honest about what it is.

Wayne
In an ideal world, yes all of the above is true, and at the national level it probably still is. However in most of the local club races or even the jbrl or top notch series the top stock drivers are putting in pretty much identical lap times as the mod drivers but in stock there will be a complete a main seperated by fractions of seconds while there is usually only a couple mod drivers with those times. I think stock has just become so competitive and only seperated by fractions of seconds so u have to buy all the lightweight and hop up parts just to be competitve and mod is so fast u can run pretty much stock parts because u have the horsepower to make up for a heavier car. I may be completely off base here but it is just my experience.
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