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Old 01-06-2015, 07:50 AM   #10216
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Which rear arms are you using?
Im using the stock b5m arms.. I have heard that the b5 arms make the wheelbase shorter, and gives it more rear toe, but how much exactly? Also, since I shortened up the wheelbase by the spacers, would that help at all?

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Originally Posted by aeRayls View Post
If you want more responsive steering in the infield of a track, reduce the amount of washers under the front camber link ball stud. Going down to 1mm.
I will try this, however if I am going to lower the roll center up front, am I going to be having trouble with pushing?
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Old 01-06-2015, 07:54 AM   #10217
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Originally Posted by WonTonsChicken View Post
Im using the stock b5m arms.. I have heard that the b5 arms make the wheelbase shorter, and gives it more rear toe, but how much exactly? Also, since I shortened up the wheelbase by the spacers, would that help at all?



I will try this, however if I am going to lower the roll center up front, am I going to be having trouble with pushing?
No going down to 1mm on the tower will give you more steering. Also I would go inside on the rear arm, 0-1mm on the rear inner camber block and I would try the B hub tower B hole in the rear (1 step longer link). Try those first and see what it feels like. Oh ya and get the b5 rear motor rear arms spaced in the middle.

That is what I run with AKA chainlinks in the rear and my car almost always feels amazing!
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Old 01-06-2015, 07:56 AM   #10218
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Originally Posted by WonTonsChicken View Post
Im using the stock b5m arms.. I have heard that the b5 arms make the wheelbase shorter, and gives it more rear toe, but how much exactly? Also, since I shortened up the wheelbase by the spacers, would that help at all?



I will try this, however if I am going to lower the roll center up front, am I going to be having trouble with pushing?
I run my hubs forward AND use the RM arms. Which is what many people are doing
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Old 01-06-2015, 08:15 AM   #10219
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No going down to 1mm on the tower will give you more steering. Also I would go inside on the rear arm, 0-1mm on the rear inner camber block and I would try the B hub tower B hole in the rear (1 step longer link). Try those first and see what it feels like. Oh ya and get the b5 rear motor rear arms spaced in the middle.

That is what I run with AKA chainlinks in the rear and my car almost always feels amazing!
Just to clarify, when you say more steering. Is that off power, on?

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I run my hubs forward AND use the RM arms. Which is what many people are doing
Is there a noticeable difference in rear toe? I know that the RM arms are the "craze" right now, but Im just curious as to why. Sorry, gotta be the one to question a good thing..

Thanks again fellas!
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Old 01-06-2015, 08:18 AM   #10220
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It doesn't change the toe, just the wheelbase and shaft plunge. (giggity)
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Old 01-06-2015, 08:20 AM   #10221
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By "Edge through the infield" I am guessing you need front end steering. The info dbowen has given you will tighten up the rear end. Looking at your setup sheet I think you can gain a lot with a few simple changes. Ditch the gullwing front arms and tower for the flat arms and flat tower. This will make the operating window of the front end much easier to manage. Second switch to the 25 deg kick up. This will allow some more weight transfer to the front. After that try out the 3 mm trailing. This will speed up overall steering response. If the car/tires are not struggling to maintain traction then I would look at raising the roll center to speed up response.


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Originally Posted by WonTonsChicken View Post
This last weekend, I switched pistons up front, going from 2x1.7 to 3x1.4 flat, and didnt notice a whole lot of difference... Im running on a clay mix track that is super smooth with only two jumps, and am finally coming around to quicker times.. However, Im just not getting that "edge" while driving through the infield. I think this may have some to do with the camber gain and link positions. I am looking for the simple fixes that I can do with keeping as close to box stock as possible.. Or even just using option tuning parts that are included with the box setup.

Thanks
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Old 01-06-2015, 08:24 AM   #10222
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Originally Posted by Mason View Post
By "Edge through the infield" I am guessing you need front end steering. The info dbowen has given you will tighten up the rear end. Looking at your setup sheet I think you can gain a lot with a few simple changes. Ditch the gullwing front arms and tower for the flat arms and flat tower. This will make the operating window of the front end much easier to manage. Second switch to the 25 deg kick up. This will allow some more weight transfer to the front. After that try out the 3 mm trailing. This will speed up overall steering response. If the car/tires are not struggling to maintain traction then I would look at raising the roll center to speed up response.
Mason, I respect your response here, but to me the RM front arms and tower took away initial turn in, and took away on power steering. I went to the gullwings and tower, and gained all of this back,

This was on a med/high bite in door track.
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Old 01-06-2015, 08:32 AM   #10223
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Originally Posted by Socket View Post
Mason, I respect your response here, but to me the RM front arms and tower took away initial turn in, and took away on power steering. I went to the gullwings and tower, and gained all of this back,

This was on a med/high bite in door track.
The flat arms definitely take away initial turn in. But they make the car smoother through the entire turn. My main issue with the gulwings, was that the car would turn in hard and the front end would dump over. Then, the rear would kinda jack knife. I went RM arms for a more linear feel. Removing ackerman washers, also seems to really make the car turn in harder, but it also induces that "jacking" feeling of the gulwings for me.


Also, for more steering, I have been playing with 2.5-2 toe/squat and using the RM .5 hub inserts (the toe the hub out .5mm). I just got the alum suspension holders, so I will try 2.5x1 with the RM .5mm hub inserts.
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Old 01-06-2015, 08:36 AM   #10224
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The flat arms definitely take away initial turn in. But they make the car smoother through the entire turn. My main issue with the gulwings, was that the car would turn in hard and the front end would dump over. Then, the rear would kinda jack knife. I went RM arms for a more linear feel. Removing ackerman washers, also seems to really make the car turn in harder, but it also induces that "jacking" feeling of the gulwings for me.


Also, for more steering, I have been playing with 2.5-2 toe/squat and using the RM .5 hub inserts (the toe the hub out .5mm). I just got the alum suspension holders, so I will try 2.5x1 with the RM .5mm hub inserts.

I hadn't had that issue at all with the gullwings. I was however lacking initial turn in, and also on power steering at warehouse 3. The change to the gullwings gave me more turn in, and more on power, while also making the car roll more through the corner.
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Old 01-06-2015, 08:36 AM   #10225
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Originally Posted by Mason View Post
By "Edge through the infield" I am guessing you need front end steering. The info dbowen has given you will tighten up the rear end. Looking at your setup sheet I think you can gain a lot with a few simple changes. Ditch the gullwing front arms and tower for the flat arms and flat tower. This will make the operating window of the front end much easier to manage. Second switch to the 25 deg kick up. This will allow some more weight transfer to the front. After that try out the 3 mm trailing. This will speed up overall steering response. If the car/tires are not struggling to maintain traction then I would look at raising the roll center to speed up response.
According to his setup sheet he runs on the same type of track I do medium to high bite and I run the exact same setup I just gave him (with the Flat arms which I forgot he was running the gulls) and white front spring and I NEVER struggle for steering I have more than enough. Cav even ran the same rear end setup at Spektrum where the grip was very high.
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Old 01-06-2015, 08:52 AM   #10226
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Originally Posted by Socket View Post
I hadn't had that issue at all with the gullwings. I was however lacking initial turn in, and also on power steering at warehouse 3. The change to the gullwings gave me more turn in, and more on power, while also making the car roll more through the corner.
I honestly dont recall the on power steering when I tried the gulwings. And the dumping seemed more pronounced in the sharper turns. The current W3 layout is super flowing. The MM arms are good to have in the box for tuning and are a tuning option. I throw them back on every once in a while to play with. At the end of the day, not everyone has the same driving style and wants the same things from the car. That is why having all of these tuning options on the car are great.

Also, warehouse 3 is weird. lol. That place is super tire dependent. I always leave there frustrated. The one week I borrowed someone's tires, was the only time I enjoyed myself.
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Old 01-06-2015, 09:01 AM   #10227
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I honestly dont recall the on power steering when I tried the gulwings. And the dumping seemed more pronounced in the sharper turns. The current W3 layout is super flowing. The MM arms are good to have in the box for tuning and are a tuning option. I throw them back on every once in a while to play with. At the end of the day, not everyone has the same driving style and wants the same things from the car. That is why having all of these tuning options on the car are great.

Also, warehouse 3 is weird. lol. That place is super tire dependent. I always leave there frustrated. The one week I borrowed someone's tires, was the only time I enjoyed myself.
W3 is definitely one of those tracks where it helps to know somebody that knows something about the tire situation. I struggled really bad my first time there.
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Old 01-06-2015, 09:04 AM   #10228
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Originally Posted by Mason View Post
By "Edge through the infield" I am guessing you need front end steering. The info dbowen has given you will tighten up the rear end. Looking at your setup sheet I think you can gain a lot with a few simple changes. Ditch the gullwing front arms and tower for the flat arms and flat tower. This will make the operating window of the front end much easier to manage. Second switch to the 25 deg kick up. This will allow some more weight transfer to the front. After that try out the 3 mm trailing. This will speed up overall steering response. If the car/tires are not struggling to maintain traction then I would look at raising the roll center to speed up response.
I will definately be trying these suggestions. Thanks!
However, I am becoming more confused by hearing two different things about lowering and raising roll center. Since I have 2mm in there right now, if I went to 1mm, would this give me more on power steering? Or more off power? And vice versa?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socket View Post
Mason, I respect your response here, but to me the RM front arms and tower took away initial turn in, and took away on power steering. I went to the gullwings and tower, and gained all of this back,

This was on a med/high bite in door track.
Granted, everyone's driving style may be different, and I think that my style would be more of a Cav type.. If that helps in advice giving..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcat1971 View Post
The flat arms definitely take away initial turn in. But they make the car smoother through the entire turn. My main issue with the gulwings, was that the car would turn in hard and the front end would dump over. Then, the rear would kinda jack knife. I went RM arms for a more linear feel. Removing ackerman washers, also seems to really make the car turn in harder, but it also induces that "jacking" feeling of the gulwings for me.


Also, for more steering, I have been playing with 2.5-2 toe/squat and using the RM .5 hub inserts (the toe the hub out .5mm). I just got the alum suspension holders, so I will try 2.5x1 with the RM .5mm hub inserts.
With adding more anti-squat, what (if any) were other areas that you noticed to suffer due to more anti-squat?

Thanks again fellas
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Old 01-06-2015, 09:05 AM   #10229
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W3 is definitely one of those tracks where it helps to know somebody that knows something about the tire situation. I struggled really bad my first time there.
I think the track has been kept on the moister (is that a word?!) side, which has made it much more consistent than months before now. A buddy did my set of tires for me, and they've been perfect, from practice to mains both times I've been to W3.
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Old 01-06-2015, 09:21 AM   #10230
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Originally Posted by WonTonsChicken View Post
I will definately be trying these suggestions. Thanks!
However, I am becoming more confused by hearing two different things about lowering and raising roll center. Since I have 2mm in there right now, if I went to 1mm, would this give me more on power steering? Or more off power? And vice versa?



Granted, everyone's driving style may be different, and I think that my style would be more of a Cav type.. If that helps in advice giving..



With adding more anti-squat, what (if any) were other areas that you noticed to suffer due to more anti-squat?

Thanks again fellas
Most anti squat, means the rear squats less on power. This "should" mean more on power steering. But I ran 2.5-2 because that is what the kit comes with, lol. I mainly wanted less rear toe. But I recently found out a few local team drivers have been trying 2.5-2 also.
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