R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric Off-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 03-09-2017, 12:23 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Official Team Associated RC10 B5m Mid-Motor Thread
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: RCBuddha
Quick link to the front page

First Page

Print Wikipost

Like Tree6Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-18-2014, 07:37 AM   #9811
Tech Regular
 
triplesix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: 48.137499,11.575494
Posts: 445
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socket View Post
Which combo did you put in the schelle? Right now I'm running the smooth setup, and would like to play around with it.
Currently, I'm still running "Standard", so it's White/White/Red, I still have to try "Agressive", probably this weekend.
__________________
MBX6R
B5M Lowrider
DEX410
Supastox GT
triplesix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 07:42 AM   #9812
Tech Fanatic
 
mjbtaco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Montclair, CA
Posts: 863
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socket View Post
What surface are you racing on? Mod or 17.5?
i race on high traction indoor clay at OCRC in southern california. 17.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFuel11 View Post
Depending on what you run on the very outside for pads makes a huge difference on the slipper because it has a plate on both sides of the slipper pad. So running a white vs a red is a big change in how the slipper operates. On slick to med traction I like Red (Inside) White White. On Higher grip surface medium to high, I like White White Red and then on carpet Red White Red. At least for me on the Nova Slipper from Schelle.
yeah local racers recommended my setup and it has worked well for me and I havent had to change it. I run red, red, white.
mjbtaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 08:24 AM   #9813
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: so cal
Posts: 172
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjbtaco View Post
i race on high traction indoor clay at OCRC in southern california. 17.5



yeah local racers recommended my setup and it has worked well for me and I havent had to change it. I run red, red, white.
Michael come out to lrh... I won the b5m in the shootout raffle and set it up the same as my team c with the inline setup. you'll have to try both out.
2dialed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 08:50 AM   #9814
Tech Master
 
Razathorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,972
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Those of you who had/have problems with the kit slipper, let me offer you my experience/advice on it for whatever it is worth.

First and foremost, I definitely noticed it was super grabby when the pads were new, and once it heated up, it would slip a lot more than when it was cold on the bench. My experience was I could hardly put the nut even on the top shaft before it would lock up and my car would do a back flip when holding the rear wheels, but after it would start slipping it wouldn't lift the wheels. Then if I let it cool a bit, it would lock solid again. It was pretty frustrating, at first.

The above being said, that is how my slipper acted when brand new, with pads that had a brand new surface on them. That's not how my slipper acts today at all. It's really consistent and I don't ever even adjust the thing. It's always, week after week, front wheels lift off the table a bit when I test it by holding the rear wheels. Serious.

The point here is this: BREAK IN and proper adjustment. It's different than the old two pad slippers, and the new VTS slippers really shine when you let the pads glaze up and the whole system becomes nearly maintenance free! Please do not take this as an insult if you had problems and went to another slipper and found better results. To each his own, I'm not here to judge, just to tell you what worked for me.

Some AE slipper history
It used to be that we constantly maintained the slipper by breaking the glaze off the pads and plates with sandpaper, scotchbrite, or even just an xacto blade scrape. On my old T4, I was doing this 1-2 times a night to keep the slipper from glazing over and being worthless. Every race I had to re-adjust and tighten the slipper, and by the end of the race it had faded a bit more and needed tightening. Then the VTS came out and what a difference that made. You had to stay on top of it on fresh pads, but once they glazed, it was set it and forget it.

VTS Secret
As I gained VTS experience, I developed a break-in and adjustment method that really worked well. The basic idea is this: Squish that spring good with pliers. Glaze your pads in well. Set the slipper when its warm. Details are below.

Glaze The Pads In
Set your slipper loose and let it slip on the bench for 3-5 seconds. Then, carefully avoiding the motor plate as it will be quite hot, hold the car in the air and run at partial to full throttle (whatever doesn't make your tires balloon into orbit) for 10 seconds to cool down the slipper clutch assembly for the next cycle. I suggest keeping the gear cover off for this to facilitate cooling. Repeat this cycle of slipping and cooling a few times to glaze the pads in, fully breaking them in to be consistent after adjustment. You'll know if you're fully broken in by how it accepts adjustment when you attempt it. After a few break in cycles, really run the car good in the air to cool it down for adjustment, or just let it sit for 10 minutes.

Proper Adjustment
You will want to adjust the slipper with it heated up and gear cover on. After proper break in and adjustment, the first cold slips on the bench should be ignored. Hold the rear tires down and roll on the throttle, don't jab it, to get the thing slipping--like the car would experience on the track. This will let the car either slip, or want to do a back flip, all without barking the diff instantly. If you find that it refuses to slip when cold after a good final adjustment, it was likely not glazed in all the way to begin with. In any case, the first slips on the bench when cold will be stickier but once it breaks free and gets a little heat in it, it should be consistent and adjustable. The adjustment process after the first few slips that get heat into the slipper is to run the tires in the air for around 5 seconds to cool it a bit, then put it right back on the table and check/adjust it by holding the rear tires and rolling onto full throttle. Repeat this process, slipping it and then cooling it down and checking/adjusting until it behaves as you want it. What you are doing is getting it warmed up to stable track temperature range on the bench and adjusting it there. When you check it cold on the bench the next time, after the first few "stickier cold slips", it should go right back to the behavior you had set when warmed up.

Bottom Line
The VTS slippers need to be set when warmed up to track conditions and retain their warm adjustment with pads that are fully broken in. The pads take some effort to break in initially. The process outlined above is actually pretty fast and second nature once you've done it. All you're doing is transition from holding the car's rear tires and slipping to holding it in the air and running it. You should really be doing this on ANY slipper clutch to accurately set it, stock or aftermarket.

Hope that helps.

Wayne
__________________
AE B6D / AE B44.3 / AE RC10WC / AE RC8B3
Razathorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 08:58 AM   #9815
Tech Prophet
 
Wildcat1971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 16,907
Trader Rating: 80 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razathorn View Post
Those of you who had/have problems with the kit slipper, let me offer you my experience/advice on it for whatever it is worth.

First and foremost, I definitely noticed it was super grabby when the pads were new, and once it heated up, it would slip a lot more than when it was cold on the bench. My experience was I could hardly put the nut even on the top shaft before it would lock up and my car would do a back flip when holding the rear wheels, but after it would start slipping it wouldn't lift the wheels. Then if I let it cool a bit, it would lock solid again. It was pretty frustrating, at first.

The above being said, that is how my slipper acted when brand new, with pads that had a brand new surface on them. That's not how my slipper acts today at all. It's really consistent and I don't ever even adjust the thing. It's always, week after week, front wheels lift off the table a bit when I test it by holding the rear wheels. Serious.

The point here is this: BREAK IN and proper adjustment. It's different than the old two pad slippers, and the new VTS slippers really shine when you let the pads glaze up and the whole system becomes nearly maintenance free! Please do not take this as an insult if you had problems and went to another slipper and found better results. To each his own, I'm not here to judge, just to tell you what worked for me.

Some AE slipper history
It used to be that we constantly maintained the slipper by breaking the glaze off the pads and plates with sandpaper, scotchbrite, or even just an xacto blade scrape. On my old T4, I was doing this 1-2 times a night to keep the slipper from glazing over and being worthless. Every race I had to re-adjust and tighten the slipper, and by the end of the race it had faded a bit more and needed tightening. Then the VTS came out and what a difference that made. You had to stay on top of it on fresh pads, but once they glazed, it was set it and forget it.

VTS Secret
As I gained VTS experience, I developed a break-in and adjustment method that really worked well. The basic idea is this: Squish that spring good with pliers. Glaze your pads in well. Set the slipper when its warm. Details are below.

Glaze The Pads In
Set your slipper loose and let it slip on the bench for 3-5 seconds. Then, carefully avoiding the motor plate as it will be quite hot, hold the car in the air and run at partial to full throttle (whatever doesn't make your tires balloon into orbit) for 10 seconds to cool down the slipper clutch assembly for the next cycle. I suggest keeping the gear cover off for this to facilitate cooling. Repeat this cycle of slipping and cooling a few times to glaze the pads in, fully breaking them in to be consistent after adjustment. You'll know if you're fully broken in by how it accepts adjustment when you attempt it. After a few break in cycles, really run the car good in the air to cool it down for adjustment, or just let it sit for 10 minutes.

Proper Adjustment
You will want to adjust the slipper with it heated up and gear cover on. After proper break in and adjustment, the first cold slips on the bench should be ignored. Hold the rear tires down and roll on the throttle, don't jab it, to get the thing slipping--like the car would experience on the track. This will let the car either slip, or want to do a back flip, all without barking the diff instantly. If you find that it refuses to slip when cold after a good final adjustment, it was likely not glazed in all the way to begin with. In any case, the first slips on the bench when cold will be stickier but once it breaks free and gets a little heat in it, it should be consistent and adjustable. The adjustment process after the first few slips that get heat into the slipper is to run the tires in the air for around 5 seconds to cool it a bit, then put it right back on the table and check/adjust it by holding the rear tires and rolling onto full throttle. Repeat this process, slipping it and then cooling it down and checking/adjusting until it behaves as you want it. What you are doing is getting it warmed up to stable track temperature range on the bench and adjusting it there. When you check it cold on the bench the next time, after the first few "stickier cold slips", it should go right back to the behavior you had set when warmed up.

Bottom Line
The VTS slippers need to be set when warmed up to track conditions and retain their warm adjustment with pads that are fully broken in. The pads take some effort to break in initially. The process outlined above is actually pretty fast and second nature once you've done it. All you're doing is transition from holding the car's rear tires and slipping to holding it in the air and running it. You should really be doing this on ANY slipper clutch to accurately set it, stock or aftermarket.

Hope that helps.

Wayne
too much work. this is why the Avid Slipper is better. you need to be a rocket scientist to make the kit slipper work and a halfwit could make the Avid work.
__________________
Support: Team Associated | Reedy Motors & ESC's | Sanwa Radios | Avid | Proline Tires
Wildcat1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 09:41 AM   #9816
Tech Master
 
Razathorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,972
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcat1971 View Post
too much work. this is why the Avid Slipper is better. you need to be a rocket scientist to make the kit slipper work and a halfwit could make the Avid work.
Come on, you don't have to be a rocket scientist, I just provided a LOT of detail. It is very simple: Adjust it after it's broken in and warmed up.

There, is one sentence better? This isn't anywhere near as difficult as properly building, breaking in, and adjusting a ball diff, but nobody harps on the diff for being incredibly hard to work with.
__________________
AE B6D / AE B44.3 / AE RC10WC / AE RC8B3
Razathorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 10:53 AM   #9817
Tech Fanatic
 
mjbtaco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Montclair, CA
Posts: 863
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dialed View Post
Michael come out to lrh... I won the b5m in the shootout raffle and set it up the same as my team c with the inline setup. you'll have to try both out.
I'll try to get out there soon Gary. Possibly Saturday not sure yet though.
mjbtaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 10:57 AM   #9818
Super Moderator
 
Cpt.America's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Washington State
Posts: 11,083
Trader Rating: 52 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcat1971 View Post
Fantom is another big one
Fantom does not hand pick motors
__________________
A big thanks to my sponsors:
- Fantom Racing - www.fantomracing.com -
- Fusion Graphix- www.fusiongraphix.com -
- RCSpecialties -
Cpt.America is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 11:30 AM   #9819
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 40
Default Disappointed in design

I just built my B5M and have to say I am disappointed in the design of the suspension. Tuning droop with spacers under the shock pistons?!?! Come on. Looking it over, it would have been so easy for them to put droop screws in the back A arms. The chassis is could have had ears coming out like on the RC8.2e and wouldn't have cost them a penny. The front is a little trickier but with a little design work they could have incorporated the ears in the front hinge pin mount. It really is disappointing. Letís face it, spacers under the shock piston is a very amateur design. I would rather turn a screw to adjust droop instead of tearing apart a set of shocks in between rounds. That is assuming you have time to do that. With droop being such an important tuning tool, I would think Associated would have made it better for their customers. Donít get me wrong, I like the car in general, but with just a little effort, it could have been really nice.
user1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 12:12 PM   #9820
Tech Master
 
Razathorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,972
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by user1 View Post
I just built my B5M and have to say I am disappointed in the design of the suspension. Tuning droop with spacers under the shock pistons?!?! Come on. Looking it over, it would have been so easy for them to put droop screws in the back A arms. The chassis is could have had ears coming out like on the RC8.2e and wouldn't have cost them a penny. The front is a little trickier but with a little design work they could have incorporated the ears in the front hinge pin mount. It really is disappointing. Letís face it, spacers under the shock piston is a very amateur design. I would rather turn a screw to adjust droop instead of tearing apart a set of shocks in between rounds. That is assuming you have time to do that. With droop being such an important tuning tool, I would think Associated would have made it better for their customers. Donít get me wrong, I like the car in general, but with just a little effort, it could have been really nice.
Droop screws are not ideal either--their setting drifts and being so close to the chassis, they're not very much of a hard stop compared to limiting the shock stroke. You'll find that the pros run limiters and unscrew the eyelets even in 1/8 scale racing now days and many times throw those droop screws out.

The proper way to adjust droop on these cars is not to rebuild the shocks, but run the limiters that allow you to adjust the shock eyelets (screw in vs out) to get the droop you want. This is how it is done on most 1/10 scale cars, and certainly every platform that currently holds a world title.

For example, run 1 limiter in all shocks and you can easily reach all shock droop settings with the eyelets. Popping a shock off and unscrewing the l eyelet is super simple and a very hard stop for the suspension.

Wayne
__________________
AE B6D / AE B44.3 / AE RC10WC / AE RC8B3
Razathorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 12:25 PM   #9821
Tech Elite
 
Mason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ocala, Florida
Posts: 4,815
Default

To use droop screws I would think to maintain the proper amount of droop adjustment that your rear arm mounts would be raised off the chassis more than currently and thus requiring higher stud mounts to maintain same roll center. seems that would raise over all cg too. kinda going backwards, ya think?
__________________
Mason McCombs
NewRed Hobbies & Indoor Facility
Off-Road, Dirt Oval, Crawlers & Pullers
Mason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 12:27 PM   #9822
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 858
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt.America View Post
Fantom does not hand pick motors
Who are you trying to kid. I no of at least one dealer here in Mi. who was getting special one of a kind motors from them. It was at a price but he had them.
hobbyten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 12:27 PM   #9823
Tech Master
 
samnelso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Fitchburg, MA
Posts: 1,751
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razathorn View Post
Droop screws are not ideal either--their setting drifts and being so close to the chassis, they're not very much of a hard stop compared to limiting the shock stroke. You'll find that the pros run limiters and unscrew the eyelets even in 1/8 scale racing now days and many times throw those droop screws out.

The proper way to adjust droop on these cars is not to rebuild the shocks, but run the limiters that allow you to adjust the shock eyelets (screw in vs out) to get the droop you want. This is how it is done on most 1/10 scale cars, and certainly every platform that currently holds a world title.

For example, run 1 limiter in all shocks and you can easily reach all shock droop settings with the eyelets. Popping a shock off and unscrewing the l eyelet is super simple and a very hard stop for the suspension.

Wayne
good tip Wayne
__________________
Team Associated | Reedy | Airtronics

RC Excitement: Fitchburg, MA | RC Madness: Enfield, CT | Horsham RC
samnelso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 01:28 PM   #9824
Tech Prophet
 
Wildcat1971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 16,907
Trader Rating: 80 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt.America View Post
Fantom does not hand pick motors
well they test the rotors and stator, then charge you an arm and a leg for ones over a certain "value". Similar to the certified motors from trinity. for all we know, all rotors and stator are the same and it is a way to make money, lol.
__________________
Support: Team Associated | Reedy Motors & ESC's | Sanwa Radios | Avid | Proline Tires
Wildcat1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 01:47 PM   #9825
Super Moderator
 
Cpt.America's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Washington State
Posts: 11,083
Trader Rating: 52 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbyten View Post
Who are you trying to kid. I no of at least one dealer here in Mi. who was getting special one of a kind motors from them. It was at a price but he had them.
I'm not trying to kid anybody, and I don't appreciate the accusation. Yes, you can order the works edition motors directly from Fantom. ( http://www.fantomracing.com/proddeta...prod=FAN27847W ) They dyno everything (to make sure they are all within spec. With an off the shelf trinity, you have the potential of getting a lower quality part), they swap out the bearings for abec7 top shelf bearings, they add an aluminum timing ring upgrade, and last but not least, they reshim the motor to optimize performance. That is NOT the same thing as going through a hundred stators and/or rotors and building a one-of-a-kind dyno king motor, not available to the general public. Your dealer may have had a works edition motor, but he did not have a hand-picked and assembled motor. He may have told you that, but he would have been lying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcat1971 View Post
well they test the rotors and stator, then charge you an arm and a leg for ones over a certain "value". Similar to the certified motors from trinity. for all we know, all rotors and stator are the same and it is a way to make money, lol.
Can you show me where on their website? Because as a team driver, I don't even have access to anything like that. Dynoing equipment and hand picking the best from all the parts they have access to, is not the same thing.
__________________
A big thanks to my sponsors:
- Fantom Racing - www.fantomracing.com -
- Fusion Graphix- www.fusiongraphix.com -
- RCSpecialties -
Cpt.America is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (0 members and 4 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 03:13 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net