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Old 09-03-2014, 11:11 AM   #7681
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Are most people using carbide or ceramic diff balls? What are the advantages of both? What about thrust balls, ceramic or carbide? Are the Avid thrust bearings worth it? Getting ready to rebuild my diff and want to make sure what I need to order. Thanks for any help.
The AVID thrust bearings are great. Get them in Cermaic. I would use the carbide diff balls that come with the kit. Make sure to watch the videos on break-in. Break-in is the most important part.
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:28 AM   #7682
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IMO, carbide diff balls for better "bite" into the diff rings preventing the dreaded diff killing "bark". And ceramics for the load bearing thrust washer.

Many report that the thrust balls are the first to become "gritty". Why? IMO. Those 6 little balls are subject to the same side load (diff spring pressure) as the 14 larger diff balls.

Diff break in can't be stressed enough regardless. I use to be lax on it and figured most guys were having to redo diffs every 3 weeks or so. Once I took the time to REALLY break in my diffs, they really can last a couple months, or longer. It's time well spent, IMO.
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:41 AM   #7683
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I find the evo tires to work better with the bands as the stock foams are a bit too firm in my opinion.
I go between Handlebars and Typos depending on how damp the track is. I don't really like a new or stiff insert with a Handlebar and prefer to run a "used" insert. When conditions call for a Typo style of tread the firmer/new insert seems to work well with that tread. I haven't tried it but I don't think I would want to run a softer/used insert in a Typo style tire.

I could be wrong though..wife tells me I am all the time
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:43 AM   #7684
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The AVID thrust bearings are great. Get them in Cermaic. I would use the carbide diff balls that come with the kit. Make sure to watch the videos on break-in. Break-in is the most important part.
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IMO, carbide diff balls for better "bite" into the diff rings preventing the dreaded diff killing "bark". And ceramics for the load bearing thrust washer.

Many report that the thrust balls are the first to become "gritty". Why? IMO. Those 6 little balls are subject to the same side load (diff spring pressure) as the 14 larger diff balls.

Diff break in can't be stressed enough regardless. I use to be lax on it and figured most guys were having to redo diffs every 3 weeks or so. Once I took the time to REALLY break in my diffs, they really can last a couple months, or longer. It's time well spent, IMO.
Thanks for the response. Glad I asked. I had it in my head it was ceramic diff balls and carbide thrust balls.
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:00 PM   #7685
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Thanks for the response. Glad I asked. I had it in my head it was ceramic diff balls and carbide thrust balls.
In the end it's up to you. I just give MY opinion based on MY experience.

I've done diff rebuilds with new carbide balls and diff rings using the old thrust balls and washers only to have, what I consider, a gritty diff from the start..So those 6 little balls do wear and need attention even if you might think they don't do much...again IMO
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:38 PM   #7686
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Thanks for the response. Glad I asked. I had it in my head it was ceramic diff balls and carbide thrust balls.
Yeah, opposite.

The thrust bearing uses washers that need to roll smoothly over the thrust balls. The assembly "rolls". It isn't responsible for any traction. In that case, you want balls that are very hard and very round/smooth, but don't particularly need any grip on the washers that are applying pressure, which would make the best choice, ceramic.

The diff balls need to be round and smooth of course, but also require "traction" against the diff rings so that the diff doesn't slip. Ceramics work here as well, in "some" diffs (like the durango 210 diff), but in a lot of cars, in order to keep the diff from slipping on ceramic diff balls, you need to run the diff tighter than you normally would want to. Here is where carbide becomes advantageous. They don't last as long, aren't as smooth/round, but provide far better traction/grip against the diff rings than the ceramics do. It allows you to run a much looser diff, without slip.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:42 PM   #7687
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Yeah, opposite.

The thrust bearing uses washers that need to roll smoothly over the thrust balls. The assembly "rolls". It isn't responsible for any traction. In that case, you want balls that are very hard and very round/smooth, but don't particularly need any grip on the washers that are applying pressure, which would make the best choice, ceramic.

The diff balls need to be round and smooth of course, but also require "traction" against the diff rings so that the diff doesn't slip. Ceramics work here as well, in "some" diffs (like the durango 210 diff), but in a lot of cars, in order to keep the diff from slipping on ceramic diff balls, you need to run the diff tighter than you normally would want to. Here is where carbide becomes advantageous. They don't last as long, aren't as smooth/round, but provide far better traction/grip against the diff rings than the ceramics do. It allows you to run a much looser diff, without slip.
So a non "Tacompton" (stupidest term ever come up with) K driver is agreeing with me??
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:56 PM   #7688
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Yeah, opposite.

The thrust bearing uses washers that need to roll smoothly over the thrust balls. The assembly "rolls". It isn't responsible for any traction. In that case, you want balls that are very hard and very round/smooth, but don't particularly need any grip on the washers that are applying pressure, which would make the best choice, ceramic.

The diff balls need to be round and smooth of course, but also require "traction" against the diff rings so that the diff doesn't slip. Ceramics work here as well, in "some" diffs (like the durango 210 diff), but in a lot of cars, in order to keep the diff from slipping on ceramic diff balls, you need to run the diff tighter than you normally would want to. Here is where carbide becomes advantageous. They don't last as long, aren't as smooth/round, but provide far better traction/grip against the diff rings than the ceramics do. It allows you to run a much looser diff, without slip.
Thanks. This makes perfect sense.
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Old 09-03-2014, 02:09 PM   #7689
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So a non "Tacompton" (stupidest term ever come up with) K driver is agreeing with me??
Speaking of Tacompton...Has anyone checked on him to make sure he's doing alright and hasn't gone into deep depression? I worry...
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Old 09-03-2014, 02:21 PM   #7690
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I wanted to give some feedback on the 2 pad setup that some people say is great. Referring to the v2 vented plates. Mine and my daughters cars use AVID Triads, but my youngest wanted to race last weekend. I didnt have an extra triad, so I put in a vented v2 2 pad setup. I set it for 2 inches like i normally do. Then I went to run laps in 17.5 on high bite. I was running clay slicks. At first I was doing wheelies. I didnt really like that feel at all, so I backed off the slipper nut 1/8 of a turn. Then it felt much better, I could get on it hard, the front stayed down and the punch felt great. I charged another pack and went out to test a few things.... About half way into the pack, the car started to feel really soft and power was fading. I could hear the slipper whistling, so I pulled it in and tightened it 1/8 turn. And i was back to doing wheelies. So, I give on on the POS. For the way I like to run my car, I think the AE 2 pad is crap. The AVID Triad is so much better at setting and forgetting. After weeks of driving, I can do a slipper test on the bench and still get my 2 inch lift. And I never feel it fade on the track. This is where George comes and tells me how perfect his 2 pad system is and that I am doing it wrong, lol.....
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Old 09-03-2014, 02:29 PM   #7691
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I run the triad 2 pad setup on all my stock vehicles. I run all red discs. Its more of a safety version of a locked spur.
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Old 09-03-2014, 02:34 PM   #7692
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I wanted to give some feedback on the 2 pad setup that some people say is great. Referring to the v2 vented plates. Mine and my daughters cars use AVID Triads, but my youngest wanted to race last weekend. I didnt have an extra triad, so I put in a vented v2 2 pad setup. I set it for 2 inches like i normally do. Then I went to run laps in 17.5 on high bite. I was running clay slicks. At first I was doing wheelies. I didnt really like that feel at all, so I backed off the slipper nut 1/8 of a turn. Then it felt much better, I could get on it hard, the front stayed down and the punch felt great. I charged another pack and went out to test a few things.... About half way into the pack, the car started to feel really soft and power was fading. I could hear the slipper whistling, so I pulled it in and tightened it 1/8 turn. And i was back to doing wheelies. So, I give on on the POS. For the way I like to run my car, I think the AE 2 pad is crap. The AVID Triad is so much better at setting and forgetting. After weeks of driving, I can do a slipper test on the bench and still get my 2 inch lift. And I never feel it fade on the track. This is where George comes and tells me how perfect his 2 pad system is and that I am doing it wrong, lol.....
I did this test last weekend and agree with this 100%. The AE 2 pad setup didn't work for me at all.
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Old 09-03-2014, 02:57 PM   #7693
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I run the triad 2 pad setup on all my stock vehicles. I run all red discs. Its more of a safety version of a locked spur.
yeah, I was thinking about trying the AVID with 2 red pads. For the same reasons as you. I just like the tuning ability of my current setup. With 2 white pads and 1 red, loosen it for a low bite or tighten it for wheelies on high bite. I just love the consistency of the Triad. If you have not liked AVID's facebook page, you should. Some nice things coming down the pipe very soon.
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Old 09-03-2014, 04:28 PM   #7694
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So a non "Tacompton" (stupidest term ever come up with) K driver is agreeing with me??
Sure.. "in general". Now, SOME diffs work just GREAT with ceramic diff balls in place of carbides. Why some diffs work and some will slip until you tighten the diff too tight, I don't know.

For example, my schumacher cars and my durango 210 could run ceramic diff balls without barking. Run ceramic in a kyosho diff, and you are going to have a hell of a time. If I remember right, ceramics worked just fine in the B4 diff.

(and by "work", I mean you don't need to run the diff tighter than you normally would to keep the diff from barking)
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:02 PM   #7695
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Just Rebuild my diff last night with Carbide Diff balls. Worked for 4 months worth of club racing and I only changed it because I was already had the Tranny apart.
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