R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric Off-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 03-09-2017, 12:23 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Official Team Associated RC10 B5m Mid-Motor Thread
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: RCBuddha
Quick link to the front page

First Page

Print Wikipost

Like Tree7Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-28-2015, 06:40 PM   #16366
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,124
Trader Rating: 61 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by twindad98 View Post
What are your thoughts on a square vs shorty? I ran at a different track this past weekend and I really struggled for on power traction, especially coming out of a turn. This track uses the same tire M4 Primes as my local track.
Most of the fast guys were running shorties instead of a full square. This was the only major difference I could see from their setups. I just wonder if running a shorty all the way back would give more rear bite on corner exit?
It matters what your setup is, what class, and what you want out of the car. It also matters how it effects weight. At one point, I used a square pack to get the car to 1500 grams even.
__________________
Best Avatar on rc-tech
Socket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2015, 08:00 PM   #16367
Tech Prophet
 
Wildcat1971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 16,912
Trader Rating: 80 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cautrell05 View Post
Anyone want to weigh in?
They are fine. I would use a ss screw to keep it in. But no bending and my axles have seen a few pipes
__________________
Support: Team Associated | Reedy Motors & ESC's | Sanwa Radios | Avid | Proline Tires
Wildcat1971 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2015, 08:07 PM   #16368
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Antelope Valley, CA
Posts: 4,729
Trader Rating: 478 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cautrell05 View Post
Anyone want to weigh in?
Out of 5 or 6 Lites I've only ruined one aluminum axle and it was my fault. I think that I cross threaded a nut on one and snapped it off. Occasionally I run 4 or 5 classes a night and if I need to make a tire change or something I use a 9.6V Dewalt driver. I realize that using an electric driver on an rc car is not a best practice but sometimes I need to make NASCAR speed tire changes. The Dewalt has a clutch....I snapped the axle with a manual T wrench trying to get the nut off. I find the AE aluminum axle to be more durable than Kyoshos if that makes a difference.
__________________
Now that I've discovered the ignore list I plan to use it.....14 and counting!
QDRHRSE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2015, 08:23 PM   #16369
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Antelope Valley, CA
Posts: 4,729
Trader Rating: 478 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by twindad98 View Post
What are your thoughts on a square vs shorty? I ran at a different track this past weekend and I really struggled for on power traction, especially coming out of a turn. This track uses the same tire M4 Primes as my local track.
Most of the fast guys were running shorties instead of a full square. This was the only major difference I could see from their setups. I just wonder if running a shorty all the way back would give more rear bite on corner exit?
If there's a enough traction to run a slick the big battery isn't needed and running a shorty battery all the way back shouldn't be necessary either. Ask the "fast" guys some more specific questions about their setups. I've found that the rear of the B5M is harder to tune than the front. Are you positive that your links are the same length, camber, toe , oil, springs, pistons, anti squat, .....etc etc.
__________________
Now that I've discovered the ignore list I plan to use it.....14 and counting!
QDRHRSE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2015, 10:26 PM   #16370
J2O
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Carlson View Post
I would suggest that you make the turnbuckles the same length. It will make the car weird if you don't I feel. It's ok if the sub trim isn't at 0. You should be able to get full lock steering though. Did you say what radio you are using?
Thanks for offering some help, Jon. I'm running the Spektrum DX4C. Please understand that I'm just recouperating from the cost of ditching traxxas rtr equipment to fund two of these radios and b5m's for me and my boy. Not that the radio is bad, but I'm not in a situation to spend all of my hobby funds on just me.

Anyways, back to my original post - I've exhausted most trouble shooting options. My son's 1258tg set up great using ae instructions. My spectrum when installed straight up (and looking into the face of the servo and horn) would turn counterclockwise to lets say 11 o'clock. Clockwise it would turn to 2:30. It left me with reducing steering travel to the one side to almost 70 % and I had no where near enough steering. This left me with two options. Leave it straight up and move the horn to roughly 1:00 or position the horn over one tooth counter clockwise and set the subtrim to straight up. Depending on the direction I took at this crossroad, I either had more travel to the left or right. With the motor not being centered and being planted more when turning left (4gear trans), I opted for the setup that offered more steering travel to the right. The weight on one side was noticeable enough for my track layout that I needed more help turning right then left. The flipside is that I settled on a straight up horn with subtrim setting it to 1:00 - and I get a very responsive buggy when going from right back to the left. Full left to right is a little laggy but I have a little more negative expo in that direction to help. Oh yeah the flipside - being unable to adjust the draglink's length with a horn positioned at 1:00 leaves me with uneven links.

Because of the bellcrank not being centered, and the way that it swings, I may play with Ackerman to even things up, but I should say, that by using the servo spacers and servo horn ballstud spacer - really did add total steering for both sides. I'm not sure if everybody else's head hurts but my head ache is starting to finally wear off lol.

I hope that wasn't too much. I know the original post was a novel but I do need more help. In the meantime, cheers to those of you doing well in the b main. I'm a few seconds from being 2 laps down from the a main competition and I'm hoping I can get some setup help in the future. Later
J2O is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 04:02 AM   #16371
Tech Regular
 
twindad98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Burlington, North Carolina
Posts: 425
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Default Square pack

Quote:
Originally Posted by QDRHRSE View Post
If there's a enough traction to run a slick the big battery isn't needed and running a shorty battery all the way back shouldn't be necessary either. Ask the "fast" guys some more specific questions about their setups. I've found that the rear of the B5M is harder to tune than the front. Are you positive that your links are the same length, camber, toe , oil, springs, pistons, anti squat, .....etc etc.
One of the fast guys did say he was running 3x1.4 hole pistons in the rear 27.5wt oil. I'm running 2x1.6 in the rear with 27.5. Other than the square pack that was the only difference. I didn't have any 3 hole pistons or I was going to try it.
twindad98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 04:13 AM   #16372
Super Moderator
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Rochester Hills Michigan
Posts: 7,232
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by J2O View Post
Thanks for offering some help, Jon. I'm running the Spektrum DX4C. Please understand that I'm just recouperating from the cost of ditching traxxas rtr equipment to fund two of these radios and b5m's for me and my boy. Not that the radio is bad, but I'm not in a situation to spend all of my hobby funds on just me.

Anyways, back to my original post - I've exhausted most trouble shooting options. My son's 1258tg set up great using ae instructions. My spectrum when installed straight up (and looking into the face of the servo and horn) would turn counterclockwise to lets say 11 o'clock. Clockwise it would turn to 2:30. It left me with reducing steering travel to the one side to almost 70 % and I had no where near enough steering. This left me with two options. Leave it straight up and move the horn to roughly 1:00 or position the horn over one tooth counter clockwise and set the subtrim to straight up. Depending on the direction I took at this crossroad, I either had more travel to the left or right. With the motor not being centered and being planted more when turning left (4gear trans), I opted for the setup that offered more steering travel to the right. The weight on one side was noticeable enough for my track layout that I needed more help turning right then left. The flipside is that I settled on a straight up horn with subtrim setting it to 1:00 - and I get a very responsive buggy when going from right back to the left. Full left to right is a little laggy but I have a little more negative expo in that direction to help. Oh yeah the flipside - being unable to adjust the draglink's length with a horn positioned at 1:00 leaves me with uneven links.

Because of the bellcrank not being centered, and the way that it swings, I may play with Ackerman to even things up, but I should say, that by using the servo spacers and servo horn ballstud spacer - really did add total steering for both sides. I'm not sure if everybody else's head hurts but my head ache is starting to finally wear off lol.

I hope that wasn't too much. I know the original post was a novel but I do need more help. In the meantime, cheers to those of you doing well in the b main. I'm a few seconds from being 2 laps down from the a main competition and I'm hoping I can get some setup help in the future. Later
Is the steering rate at 100%? Where is the steering trim on the main screen, is it centered? Are you using a B5m servo horn?
Dave H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 05:30 AM   #16373
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 19
Default

Maybe you are interessted in a picture of our first lowrider-gearbox prototype attached in the B5m:



Greetings

Stephan
Flyinggekko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 06:31 AM   #16374
Tech Master
 
Razathorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,972
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

In regard to 17.5 motor timing, every motor is different, but my experience on my D4 maxzilla in my RC10 worlds car that I run in 17.5 at my local track is that gearing causes pretty linear and predictable increases in heat where as timing tends to add heat linearly until you reach a point and then it starts going exponentially higher very quickly. In other words, the timing on the motor is kinda separate from the gearing and you just ramp it up until you see less/no more gains and start seeing heat start to increase more, then back it off to where you were right before where the motor was pretty much just as fast but ran cooler. Then you set gearing, and gearing lets you move around that heat in a more controlled fashion and you never touch timing again. IMHO, timing is more dependent on your class, so there's pretty much an ideal setting for your motor/car and once you find it, per track gearing changes are your go to.

On my D4 maxzilla in my RC10 worlds car, that's 45 on the endbell. I'm generally faster than the entire pack and my motor never gets anywhere close to too hot. I could gear up, but it takes away some corner exit power, so I'm really at the point where I can run my gearing for track preference rather than running into heat limitations.

My $0.02.

Wayne
__________________
AE B6D / AE B44.3 / AE RC10WC / AE RC8B3
Razathorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 06:38 AM   #16375
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,124
Trader Rating: 61 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyinggekko View Post
Maybe you are interessted in a picture of our first lowrider-gearbox prototype attached in the B5m:



Greetings

Stephan
Too late. It's been done. Now build a setup like AE's with the shocks on the front of the arms.
__________________
Best Avatar on rc-tech
Socket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 07:27 AM   #16376
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 289
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by twindad98 View Post
What are your thoughts on a square vs shorty? I ran at a different track this past weekend and I really struggled for on power traction, especially coming out of a turn. This track uses the same tire M4 Primes as my local track.
Most of the fast guys were running shorties instead of a full square. This was the only major difference I could see from their setups. I just wonder if running a shorty all the way back would give more rear bite on corner exit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by twindad98 View Post
One of the fast guys did say he was running 3x1.4 hole pistons in the rear 27.5wt oil. I'm running 2x1.6 in the rear with 27.5. Other than the square pack that was the only difference. I didn't have any 3 hole pistons or I was going to try it.
Just curious, were you at SpeedRC?
joncmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 07:49 AM   #16377
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socket View Post
Too late. It's been done. Now build a setup like AE's with the shocks on the front of the arms.
Too late for what? We are just developing and building such things for fun, so we don't care if anybody else has already done something similiar.

Or have I misinterpreted you?
Flyinggekko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 08:14 AM   #16378
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 529
Trader Rating: 42 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyinggekko View Post
Maybe you are interessted in a picture of our first lowrider-gearbox prototype attached in the B5m:

Greetings

Stephan
Looks good. What design software was used? I have Unigraphics NX10. Would you be willing to send me a Parasolid or STEP file of it? I have no intentions of selling, just for my personal use.

I assume it's 3D printed. was it SLA or SLS, which material did you use? I'm having good results using Accura 60 and I like it because it's transparent.
Bartman42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 08:23 AM   #16379
Tech Elite
 
JFuel11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central IL
Posts: 3,583
Trader Rating: 152 (100%+)
Default Dual Rate or Actual EPA

Quote:
Originally Posted by J2O View Post
Thanks for offering some help, Jon. I'm running the Spektrum DX4C. Please understand that I'm just recouperating from the cost of ditching traxxas rtr equipment to fund two of these radios and b5m's for me and my boy. Not that the radio is bad, but I'm not in a situation to spend all of my hobby funds on just me.

Anyways, back to my original post - I've exhausted most trouble shooting options. My son's 1258tg set up great using ae instructions. My spectrum when installed straight up (and looking into the face of the servo and horn) would turn counterclockwise to lets say 11 o'clock. Clockwise it would turn to 2:30. It left me with reducing steering travel to the one side to almost 70 % and I had no where near enough steering. This left me with two options. Leave it straight up and move the horn to roughly 1:00 or position the horn over one tooth counter clockwise and set the subtrim to straight up. Depending on the direction I took at this crossroad, I either had more travel to the left or right. With the motor not being centered and being planted more when turning left (4gear trans), I opted for the setup that offered more steering travel to the right. The weight on one side was noticeable enough for my track layout that I needed more help turning right then left. The flipside is that I settled on a straight up horn with subtrim setting it to 1:00 - and I get a very responsive buggy when going from right back to the left. Full left to right is a little laggy but I have a little more negative expo in that direction to help. Oh yeah the flipside - being unable to adjust the draglink's length with a horn positioned at 1:00 leaves me with uneven links.

Because of the bellcrank not being centered, and the way that it swings, I may play with Ackerman to even things up, but I should say, that by using the servo spacers and servo horn ballstud spacer - really did add total steering for both sides. I'm not sure if everybody else's head hurts but my head ache is starting to finally wear off lol.

I hope that wasn't too much. I know the original post was a novel but I do need more help. In the meantime, cheers to those of you doing well in the b main. I'm a few seconds from being 2 laps down from the a main competition and I'm hoping I can get some setup help in the future. Later

Are you adjusting your steering dual rate or actual EPA? I have have never ran into a problem with getting a server to have the correct amount of travel unless one or more of the follow were an issue.

1. Defective Servo
2. In-correct Servo Horn (I always use the stock AE ones with AE kits)
3. In-correct radio settings.

In setting up the servo I follow this process:

1. Install Servo Horn with straight up and manually rotate server with arm fully through servo travel range. Sometimes I will have to settle a little bit on centering as it may not be perfect.
2. Install servo into B5m and install servo linkage.
3. Using my Sub-Trim Not Trim on my radio I will adjust the servo centering so that the steering rack is centered.
4. Will adjust my turnbuckles so tires are pointed straight or with desired amount if toe.
5.With car and radio on, I will now turn my car all the way to the left and use my EPA/Travel adjustment to reduce travel or increase travel to the left until I reach full travel and then do the same to the right.

Ensure that your Dual Rate (Steering is set to 100%) before you start this process.

If this does not work then go back to the top and verify that you have a servo that works correctly and moves through it's full range of travel out of the car if that is the case then it is something binding up or in-correct radio settings.

Good Luck!
__________________
Alan Bachman (AKA - Johnny Rocket Fuel)
Help your fellow racers go faster... You will have more competition!!!
Sponsors:
RC America - XRay - Hudy - Maclan Racing - Xpert Servos - Schelle Racing Innovations - AKA Racing Products - DE Racing - Sticky Kicks - Sanwa
JFuel11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2015, 10:41 AM   #16380
Tech Regular
 
twindad98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Burlington, North Carolina
Posts: 425
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Default Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by joncmack View Post
Just curious, were you at SpeedRC?
Yea I was. It was my first time there with the B5M. I havem been several times but with my RB6. Which my son has now.
I race weekly at the Warehouse on Friday nights.
twindad98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 10:56 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net