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Old 09-04-2015, 06:17 AM   #15421
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This is one topic I don't have a definitive opinion on. Wildcat, you're on high bite clay so, per the book, your car should have felt more stable on entry with increased ackerman, but once again I'm not 100% sure. I'm talking specifically about steering on power. Its new to me since I started building these 5 series cars. Anybody have a more informed explanation?
Just what I felt. Locals run -2mm, mean 4mm less than kit build. I will probably play with it again, but every time I have tried it on any car, including 4wd, I just think it makes the car unpredictable in the corner.
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Old 09-04-2015, 07:33 AM   #15422
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The feel of the ackerman changes is going to be dependent on the corner. Because it's a progressive change as you steer further from center, the tighter corners will have a different feel than say a sweeper. On most of my 4x4 vehicles I like a more aggressive ackerman setting to be nimble in the tight corners. For my 2wd buggy I prefer pretty neutral. I think the key is recognizing that it doesn't "take steering away" or add it. My $0.02
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Old 09-04-2015, 08:03 AM   #15423
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Several months ago I bought Sockets car because I didn't feel like I was getting my setups quite right and I wanted to try his. When the car arrived it was very similar to mine but it had the -2 mm of ackerman. I liked it but It seemed like the -2mm was giving me too much push on initial turn in. I had to brake hard and then pound the throttle for tight corners. I also noticed that I was wearing out front tires 2:1 vs rears which is the opposite of what happened with my Kyosho buggies. Even @ 0mm my fronts wear fast. There's gotta be something to it. Even if the amount of mechanical steering is the same, when you feel it most certainly does change. Which brings me to the OP. If his traction is so so and he needs a little more aggressive steering, why not try 30 degrees of kick up if all else is correct?
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Old 09-04-2015, 08:48 AM   #15424
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Several months ago I bought Sockets car because I didn't feel like I was getting my setups quite right and I wanted to try his. When the car arrived it was very similar to mine but it had the -2 mm of ackerman. I liked it but It seemed like the -2mm was giving me too much push on initial turn in. I had to brake hard and then pound the throttle for tight corners. I also noticed that I was wearing out front tires 2:1 vs rears which is the opposite of what happened with my Kyosho buggies. Even @ 0mm my fronts wear fast. There's gotta be something to it. Even if the amount of mechanical steering is the same, when you feel it most certainly does change. Which brings me to the OP. If his traction is so so and he needs a little more aggressive steering, why not try 30 degrees of kick up if all else is correct?
I agree with BDS. The steering feel of 1mm is what I like best. IMO, less washers is less linear steering at full lock. That has been my view on it. I tried zero, 1mm and 2mm. I prefer the 1mm, myself. It is one of those things you change and check the feel. That being said. I changed the washers and nothing else. I also use gulwing arms.
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Old 09-04-2015, 09:24 AM   #15425
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The feel of the ackerman changes is going to be dependent on the corner. Because it's a progressive change as you steer further from center, the tighter corners will have a different feel than say a sweeper. On most of my 4x4 vehicles I like a more aggressive ackerman setting to be nimble in the tight corners. For my 2wd buggy I prefer pretty neutral. I think the key is recognizing that it doesn't "take steering away" or add it. My $0.02
Well said.

Akerman is very track dependent, and when you're on a surface where traction is an after thought, getting the car to square and get off the corner hard is the focus. This will also be determined by driving style, and power applied.

I liked the hard turn in the negative akerman gave me once I let weight transfer forward, it'd "plant" the car, and then I could immediately grab a hand full and have the car finish the corner WFO. We also talked about how I liked my electronics setup to allow the car to rotate more.

Wildcat drove my car, made it 1 corner and crashed. 2 more corners, crashed...said it was impossible to drive with so much steering.

When you're pushing the edge of the car, the tire, and the motor, more steering with a planted rear is very much welcome, as on a track where corner speed is low because of 180's, it allows you to get off the corner HARD.

If the track is very open and flowing, I see myself going to either zero or positive 1 akerman, or if I were a much slower racer, I could see how that setup would be very twitchy.

Personally, I'm super interested in Cav's nationals setup - it's completely off the map to what I understand (which is VERY little...).

Edit: I played around with the ghea pivot inserts and wide pivot around the time the 3 gear dropped, months before AE had anything available. I wasn't always impressed with how the car felt. Cav's setup definitely gives light to how to utilize the different rear pivot setup.
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Old 09-04-2015, 09:30 AM   #15426
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Shock oils - what is the general reason and theory why heavier oil is ran in the front then the rear?
There is some truth to it, but also, it's a bit apples to oranges to some degree.

The general theory is that the front leads and the rear follows, so the front sets up much of the attitude of how the car changes direction and rolls. An extreme example of this is front shock oil in a truck class—too thin of an oil in front and they're just soooo super "rolly". If you were to try and solve that with rear oil, all you'd do is lose rear traction in practice—the front is still going to dip to one side and transfer a lot of weight. You want the front to dampen and provide control while the rear absorbs whatever the front encountered without kicking out. A thinner oil in the rear is beneficial to this because it reacts less to bumps.

Thus you end up with a little thicker oils in front for control, and thinner in rear for forgiveness and traction.

HAVING said that, many times you have different pistons and completely different shock angles and lever arm distances, so the shock oil is simply not representative of the damping. A good example of this is the b44 platform, where we run 35 up front, 30 in the rear, but the front "feels lighter" than the rear, even though the rear has thinner oil and bigger holed pistons.

Also in play is the fact that the oil and piston combo is very dependent on your spring. A black spring can have a much thinner oil, but a red spring would be so over sprung and bouncy with thin oil that you'd just have a jittery mess of a car.

The real answer is the oil numbers just work out that way sometimes, but many times the front is indeed thicker—it could be that you're running the same oil front and rear with smaller piston holes in front. You gotta just follow the setup and not really worry about your oil numbers "agreeing", it's all subjective.

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Old 09-04-2015, 09:38 AM   #15427
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Are there any x rings that fit other than the TA ones. Heard someone say the Yokomo ones are to big
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Old 09-04-2015, 09:57 AM   #15428
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Does anyone know if the ASC91606 V2 topshaft from the B5M lite will fit in the V2 4gear transmission case with a VTS slipper?
I thought I read somewhere a ways back that the bearings in the 3gear and V2 4gear cases are the same, but what about the top shaft?
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Old 09-04-2015, 10:51 AM   #15429
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Does anyone know if the ASC91606 V2 topshaft from the B5M lite will fit in the V2 4gear transmission case with a VTS slipper?
I thought I read somewhere a ways back that the bearings in the 3gear and V2 4gear cases are the same, but what about the top shaft?
Yes, you use the idler gear bearings in the V2 case with a V2 topshaft.
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Old 09-04-2015, 11:46 AM   #15430
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So, off topic a bit, but I think you guys will have a better chance of knowing the answer / seeing the question. With the b5/m and b44.3 platforms, the v2 big bores have a smaller gland for the o-ring as we know. Additionally, AE changed the size of their red o-rings and now both the x-rings and red o-rings leak like crazy in V1 big bores. I've got some old V1 big bores that I am thinking of slapping on a worlds RC10 (although I may just put my spare V2 BB on it), and was trying to figure out what on earth I can use as an O-ring that won't have me soaking them overnight to swell up to a usable size?
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Old 09-04-2015, 11:51 AM   #15431
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So, off topic a bit, but I think you guys will have a better chance of knowing the answer / seeing the question. With the b5/m and b44.3 platforms, the v2 big bores have a smaller gland for the o-ring as we know. Additionally, AE changed the size of their red o-rings and now both the x-rings and red o-rings leak like crazy in V1 big bores. I've got some old V1 big bores that I am thinking of slapping on a worlds RC10 (although I may just put my spare V2 BB on it), and was trying to figure out what on earth I can use as an O-ring that won't have me soaking them overnight to swell up to a usable size?
Traxxass o ring kit need 2:

http://www.amain.com/rc-cars/traxxas...tra2362/p45156
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Old 09-04-2015, 01:32 PM   #15432
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Are there any x rings that fit other than the TA ones. Heard someone say the Yokomo ones are to big
This is all I have ever used. Super smooth, last forever, and very well priced. None of these companies make their own x-rings

http://www.amain.com/rc-cars/traxxas...tra2362/p45156

(EDIT: Ninja'd by Dbowen! )
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Old 09-04-2015, 02:26 PM   #15433
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I'll buy a few sets and try them out. Those are cheap!
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Old 09-04-2015, 02:27 PM   #15434
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Originally Posted by Jamie Hanson View Post
Does anyone know if the ASC91606 V2 topshaft from the B5M lite will fit in the V2 4gear transmission case with a VTS slipper?
I thought I read somewhere a ways back that the bearings in the 3gear and V2 4gear cases are the same, but what about the top shaft?
The reason that there is V2 4 gear is the new topshaft. Should be the same.
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Old 09-04-2015, 07:16 PM   #15435
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Well said.

Akerman is very track dependent, and when you're on a surface where traction is an after thought, getting the car to square and get off the corner hard is the focus. This will also be determined by driving style, and power applied.

I liked the hard turn in the negative akerman gave me once I let weight transfer forward, it'd "plant" the car, and then I could immediately grab a hand full and have the car finish the corner WFO. We also talked about how I liked my electronics setup to allow the car to rotate more.

Wildcat drove my car, made it 1 corner and crashed. 2 more corners, crashed...said it was impossible to drive with so much steering.

When you're pushing the edge of the car, the tire, and the motor, more steering with a planted rear is very much welcome, as on a track where corner speed is low because of 180's, it allows you to get off the corner HARD.

If the track is very open and flowing, I see myself going to either zero or positive 1 akerman, or if I were a much slower racer, I could see how that setup would be very twitchy.

Personally, I'm super interested in Cav's nationals setup - it's completely off the map to what I understand (which is VERY little...).

Edit: I played around with the ghea pivot inserts and wide pivot around the time the 3 gear dropped, months before AE had anything available. I wasn't always impressed with how the car felt. Cav's setup definitely gives light to how to utilize the different rear pivot setup.
How you have your buggy setup sounds exactly what I have been trying to get mine to for the last four weekends of track time. I am curious how the ackermann is being expressed as either positive or negative, with shims being used under the ball stud I am assuming is positive ackermann and how do you get to negative? Still learning and trying to digest a ton of information, really enjoying some of the discussions in this thread the last couple of weeks.

Socket, I would love to see one of you tighter track with high bite clay setups, curious to compare to what I have going right now and how it might feel on my local track.
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