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Old 09-19-2013, 09:53 AM   #1
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Default Older models really outdated ?

I know the Manufacturers put out new products with tons of small improvements pretty often. I wanted to see if people really can feel differences between say the scte 1.0 vs 2.0 , mbx6 vs mbx7, 808e vs xb9e, 8 2.0 vs 8 3.0 etc etc ... Are the prior models really "outdated" in your opinions ? Is it a bad move for a new racer to buy up a sweet older model cheap , or should they poney up and inverst in the newest stuff to maximize the life span of the investment ? Share your opinions ...
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:00 AM   #2
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I've purchased every new AE car in the last 5 years, from the B4.1, 4.1 Worlds, 4.2, etc, as well as the Kyosho RB5, driven a few RB6's, and somehow always end up back driving my old Associated B3 I purchased new in 1997. I'm faster with that car then any new car, even though I hung the B3 up for at least 10 years until pulling it off the shelf a few weeks ago.

R/C seems to be all about buying the latest and greatest thing, and in 99% of circumstances, the car isn't going to change anything, it all comes to the driver.
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:21 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorRC View Post
R/C seems to be all about buying the latest and greatest thing, and in 99% of circumstances, the car isn't going to change anything, it all comes to the driver.
+eleventybillion - Newer isn't always better, it's just newer and companies need to keep pushing product. Occasionally there are leaps forward such as cars with battery trays designed around lipos but in general, imo, design has been such a slow evolution that being a generation or two behind just means you're able to both draw off cheaper cars/parts and a wider knowledge base about the car in question.

I put small bore shocks on a car that came with bb's and it improved in every way. Feel, consistency and laptimes. A couple years from now, sb shocks might be sold separately as the "newest trick part" to, "...reduce your cars' weight, unsprung weight, cg and make it react faster..." Buy NOW, NOW, NOW! And, us oldtimers will just chuckle about it...
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:32 AM   #4
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+eleventybillion - Newer isn't always better, it's just newer and companies need to keep pushing product. Occasionally there are leaps forward such as cars with battery trays designed around lipos but in general, imo, design has been such a slow evolution that being a generation or two behind just means you're able to both draw off cheaper cars/parts and a wider knowledge base about the car in question.

I put small bore shocks on a car that came with bb's and it improved in every way. Feel, consistency and laptimes. A couple years from now, sb shocks might be sold separately as the "newest trick part" to, "...reduce your cars' weight, unsprung weight, cg and make it react faster..." Buy NOW, NOW, NOW! And, us oldtimers will just chuckle about it...


+1 Good Thread....

You buy now or you go hell go away......."Chinese"

New is not always better.....

I've seen a guy run just as fast lap times with his XXX-CR over this 22

The Losi XXX-S is still winning touring car events

Also Losi XX-4 & XXX-4 are still doing well.

Big Bores Blah Blah Blah......

Standard shocks with Avid spring works for most platforms & tracks.
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:38 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by wittyname View Post
I know the Manufacturers put out new products with tons of small improvements pretty often. I wanted to see if people really can feel differences between say the scte 1.0 vs 2.0 , mbx6 vs mbx7, 808e vs xb9e, 8 2.0 vs 8 3.0 etc etc ... Are the prior models really "outdated" in your opinions ? Is it a bad move for a new racer to buy up a sweet older model cheap , or should they poney up and inverst in the newest stuff to maximize the life span of the investment ? Share your opinions ...
Ty tessman won the worlds 4x4 warmup with a b44.1 with skinny bore shocks and beat out AE's top drivers with their new kits.....
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:49 AM   #6
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I watched a guy drive a B2 2 monthes ago at a big race here in florida and he finished
2nd in stock buggy. Which to me says alot, because that class would be one that would benefit most from the latest in greatest in both weight and geometry.
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:50 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorRC View Post
I've purchased every new AE car in the last 5 years, from the B4.1, 4.1 Worlds, 4.2, etc, as well as the Kyosho RB5, driven a few RB6's, and somehow always end up back driving my old Associated B3 I purchased new in 1997. I'm faster with that car then any new car, even though I hung the B3 up for at least 10 years until pulling it off the shelf a few weeks ago.

R/C seems to be all about buying the latest and greatest thing, and in 99% of circumstances, the car isn't going to change anything, it all comes to the driver.
I know of a racer who still runs his XXX, and while the rest of us were selling our kits off, he bought them up for spare parts (for usually cheap!). He still races with it today!

I suppose the lesson is this: Buy enough spares and you can stay competitive for a long time.
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:52 AM   #8
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I think the real issue for the age of your platform is going to boil down to parts support. As long as you have that in some fashion then you are in good shape and many older cars are going to compete very well.
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:58 AM   #9
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Newer is definitely not always better, but newer once the bugs get worked out is almost always better in some way that is significant if you're really competitive and the people around you are closely matched. We generally call it being "off pace" when some game changing thing comes about and you can no longer catch your buddies. There are clear exceptions to this rule -- for example, the losi 1/10 4wd buggy situation, but other than that, most newer generations of offroad cars have some significant design improvements.

When the b4.1 long chassis came out, depending on the track, you would be off pace if you did not have it.

When the super soft compounds paired with closed cell inserts came out, if you did not have it, you were off pace. (I personally tested open cell vs closed cell and found 1-3 tenths a lap in difference).

When the b44.1 came out, it had some better parts, but the longer chassis wasn't really a game changer for most. When the b44.2 came out, the big bores were a big improvement for specifically that car.

IMHO, when AE big bores came out in 1/10 land, they didn't help stadium truck much, they really initially hurt buggy until we did some serious setup searching and had more piston options, and they really helped the b44 platform.

When the RC8.2 came out, it was horrible. We drilled holes in towers, used old 8b parts, purchased different sway bar kits, rear hubs... man, an 8b was way better until we figured that platform out, but it eventually became better than the 8b.

Every kyosho platform update has some serious improvement in durability, but they tend to back track on stuff like rear end setup. In RB5 land, it was really tough to keep track of which rear arm mounts, arms, and rear shock shafts were the best combination overall, and each revision of the car had different ones, and the latest version wasn't ever the right version. Same with the RB6—everyone runs rb5 rear arms now! Having said that, the rb6 is worlds better than the rb5 now that some good team setups are available.

Here's the bottom line. Each update to a platform usually includes a lot of improvements in design and a few steps back in minor areas that can make the car not as good as the previous model until all the bugs are worked out. Once the bugs are worked out, it's better than the previous car by a meaningful amount, especially if you're competitive. If you're one of those people who can't figure out the issues with the initial platform and work around them, or doesn't want to, hold off on getting the new platform till its been out a while and has settled down. Otherwise, get the new platform and start contributing to the community with your findings.
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Old 09-19-2013, 01:43 PM   #10
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If you crash too much it won't matter what car you run. If you can run consistently clean and fast and understand setting up a car and not just putting a setup on it, you can be fast with most cars and may benefit from the improvements in a new kit. I run a classic B44 with V2 shocks and BB springs and it works just fine - the car can still run better than I drive it. In short course BB shocks were a next level upgrade, but the SC10.2 front end is just different, not necessarily better. Not to say getting a new kit isn't a good idea, but RC racing is still 60% driver and 40% car. If your budget is anything like mine, it's much more reasonable to put the time into truly knowing the car you run and getting as much practice as possible to improve the driver.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:04 PM   #11
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My track is a new track (first full season), many people have "basher" buggies (HPI Trophy Buggy, Ofna Lx2, LX1, etc.), and the surprising thing is they still haul. Especially 8th scale, 8th scale seems to be at least 80% driver.

First place is a lock by an amazing Serpent driver, but 2nd is contested by an rtr Kyosho, a Trophy Buggy and an electric Ofna LX1!!!. There are hot bodies, Losi's, Durango's and Associated's chasing, but these guys know their set-up so well and are just great drivers.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:30 PM   #12
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Yup, having the new stuff is definitely a fast guy in fast group game. If you're not a fast guy, or there is no fast group, then new stuff won't help you much.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:41 PM   #13
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I'm seeing what I thought I would see. I have always told people that ask me what they should buy for their first car , to buy whatever they can afford to drive the most. I think buying new tires and spares when they are cheap is a much better investment then the latest kit. As long as another driver can drive my own truck faster then I can , means there is still plenty left to be learned.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:58 PM   #14
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A "new racer" is better benefited by investing in quality electronics, that may last them a number of years. What car they start with matters little, as they won't be competitive regardless what they run while they're learning not to crash.
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Old 09-19-2013, 06:40 PM   #15
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Afew races back, this guy ran qualifying with the 1st 2wd buggy that losi came out with... kicked everyones butt by afew seconds. Chuck yeager once said, "its the man, not the machine".
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