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Old 08-12-2013, 03:19 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by madweazl View Post
Everyone likes to hate on ROAR and insinuate they're single-handedly destroying racing but they really do keep costs down. If the local tracks would stick to ROAR rules, most racers would be better off in the wallet department.

I'm sure the D413 will conform to the rules just like every other manufacturer has. It's still a prototype and way to early for the armchair quarterbacks to start throwing the rule book at it.
Prototype or not, Preproduction or not, the rules are the rules. Love them or hate them, they're there for a reason. I don't think it's so much as throwing the Rulebook at it, as much as it's about holding Mfg.'s accountable to conform to the rules as written. Last I checked, the rule in question doesn't exclude any prototype or Preproduction chassis from having to conform to the rule. If a prototype or Preproduction chassis didn't have to abide by the same rule(s) as a full Production chassis, then why would any Mfg. even bother bringing Production chassis' to events such as the Nats or bigger, when all they'd have to do is draw up a one off design, go out and win and never worry about having to put any or all of that chassis used into production.

This is part of why I feel that no Mfg. should ever be allowed to run a Prototype or Preproduction chassis at some events. Keeps situations such as this one for really being an issue, or at the very least, helps to keep on the spot rule interpations by Officals at the event from being the wrong one.

Of course, this is pretty much all speculative as outside of a few live bodies, there are no pics or solid info to go off of as to wether or not the chassis in question met said rule or not. So until there is proof 100% one way or the other, it's speculation and conjecture at best.

Having said that. Congrats Ty. Car looked good out there, and seems that the new design is going in the direction it was intended to.
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:23 PM   #107
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The D413 can be configured to run SHORTY or SADDLE packs. All parts needed to setup either configuration will be included in the kit. So if a customer already has saddles, there’s no need to buy shorties, and vice-versa.

We arrived at the nats with the car in shorty configuration. Prior to qualifying Ty’s father took the car through tech to see if we can run it that way. If they said no then we would have gladly converted it to saddle configuration and ran it like that for the entire event. The ROAR official said it was fine the way we had it. We find it more convenient to work with the shorty because you only need to remove one battery strap and you don’t need a jumper wire. It is also lighter by whatever the amount of weight difference is between the two types of batteries. Even though the shorty is lighter, our car is still well clear of the legal minimum weight.

Ty’s D413 went through tech at least 8 times (2 practice, 4 qualifiers, A1, A2) and each time we got the OK to race.

After Ty wins A1 and A2 in very close battles, we find that we are being protested by said “unnamed manufacturer”, citing that rule about battery fitment. Manager(s) from this unnamed manufacturer wrote up a protest and asked their drivers who qualified in the A-main to sign it (only drivers from the same main can file protests against other drivers within that main). THEIR OWN DRIVERS IN THE A-MAIN REFUSED TO SIGN THE PROTEST.

Furthermore, unnamed manufacturer’s manager then went to other teams and tried to get other A-main drivers to sign the protest. ALL REFUSED TO SIGN.

In the end one of their other managers who was in the B-main signed it and filed the protest. Because he wasn’t even in the same main as Ty, ROAR rejected it.

Some notes I got from this ordeal:

1. I already admired all of the racers in the A-main for their driving skill. Now, I admire them even more for their integrity.
2. Personally I didn’t have a problem with the protest itself. But I have a problem with the timing of when the protest was filed and how it was filed. Why did they wait till after A2? They could’ve filed it as soon as cars started going through tech so we can go to our saddle configuration. And the fact that they still insisted on filing the protest even after all other racers in Ty’s main refused to sign it is simply spineless.
3. Unnamed manufacturer shouldn’t be crucified for this cowardly act if in case somebody does reveal who they are. Their own A-main drivers refused to partake in this bogus protest. Others pitting under their tent probably didn’t even know anything about it. It is probably, or at least hopefully, just a case of a couple of individuals under unnamed manufacturer’s employ acting on their own accord.
4. WE WON.
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:34 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by T. Deguzman View Post
The D413 can be configured to run SHORTY or SADDLE packs. All parts needed to setup either configuration will be included in the kit. So if a customer already has saddles, there’s no need to buy shorties, and vice-versa.

We arrived at the nats with the car in shorty configuration. Prior to qualifying Ty’s father took the car through tech to see if we can run it that way. If they said no then we would have gladly converted it to saddle configuration and ran it like that for the entire event. The ROAR official said it was fine the way we had it. We find it more convenient to work with the shorty because you only need to remove one battery strap and you don’t need a jumper wire. It is also lighter by whatever the amount of weight difference is between the two types of batteries. Even though the shorty is lighter, our car is still well clear of the legal minimum weight.

Ty’s D413 went through tech at least 8 times (2 practice, 4 qualifiers, A1, A2) and each time we got the OK to race.

After Ty wins A1 and A2 in very close battles, we find that we are being protested by said “unnamed manufacturer”, citing that rule about battery fitment. Manager(s) from this unnamed manufacturer wrote up a protest and asked their drivers who qualified in the A-main to sign it (only drivers from the same main can file protests against other drivers within that main). THEIR OWN DRIVERS IN THE A-MAIN REFUSED TO SIGN THE PROTEST.

Furthermore, unnamed manufacturer’s manager then went to other teams and tried to get other A-main drivers to sign the protest. ALL REFUSED TO SIGN.

In the end one of their other managers who was in the B-main signed it and filed the protest. Because he wasn’t even in the same main as Ty, ROAR rejected it.

Some notes I got from this ordeal:

1. I already admired all of the racers in the A-main for their driving skill. Now, I admire them even more for their integrity.
2. Personally I didn’t have a problem with the protest itself. But I have a problem with the timing of when the protest was filed and how it was filed. Why did they wait till after A2? They could’ve filed it as soon as cars started going through tech so we can go to our saddle configuration. And the fact that they still insisted on filing the protest even after all other racers in Ty’s main refused to sign it is simply spineless.
3. Unnamed manufacturer shouldn’t be crucified for this cowardly act if in case somebody does reveal who they are. Their own A-main drivers refused to partake in this bogus protest. Others pitting under their tent probably didn’t even know anything about it. It is probably, or at least hopefully, just a case of a couple of individuals under unnamed manufacturer’s employ acting on their own accord.
4. WE WON.


Well said Torrance!
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:43 PM   #109
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It doesn't get any better than that. I bet we can take a look at the driver's in the main and pretty much figure out who the un named manufacture is. Bottom line..........you won and Congrats to you and TY.

The worlds just got very interesting
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:45 PM   #110
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Well said Torrance....
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:52 PM   #111
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That's a drop the mic and walk off moment. Well said sir.
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Old 08-12-2013, 04:27 PM   #112
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So Torrence, Ty's car at the nats could have gone from a shorty to a saddle pack and only had to remove battery foam and not have to move any of the electronics or unbolt or move anything on the car?

That's really impressive to see how that could be done. I can't wait to see how you guys fit everything in the car to make that happen. I really mean that genuinely.
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Old 08-12-2013, 04:33 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Nebula View Post
So Torrence, Ty's car at the nats could have gone from a shorty to a saddle pack and only had to remove battery foam and not have to move any of the electronics or unbolt or move anything on the car?

That's really impressive to see how that could be done. I can't wait to see how you guys fit everything in the car to make that happen. I really mean that genuinely.
They asked the ROAR official and they said it was fine, what's so hard to understand about that? If you have a problem with a rule interpretation then bring that up with ROAR.
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Old 08-12-2013, 04:37 PM   #114
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I am not a ROAR official but I was in tech all weekend helping ROAR. There is absolutely no way to tech every single aspect of the rules every time a car is presented to tech. There just isnt enough time. We were checking weights, dimensions, battery voltage every time a car came through.

We weren't singleing out any cars. We would check the aspects per class, so if we were checking say wing chords, it was all cars, not just a few.

That's where protests come in. If you think a car is not legal, you have the right as a competitor to file a protest.
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Old 08-12-2013, 04:37 PM   #115
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well said.

now it will be a matter of time where shortys will be the way to go, saddles will be phased out because of dropped sales. Then ROAR will have to change the rules.
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Old 08-12-2013, 04:37 PM   #116
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Because ROAR wasn't following the their own rules at the Nats

And I do wish they would do away with that stupid rule.
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Old 08-12-2013, 04:52 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by T. Deguzman View Post
The D413 can be configured to run SHORTY or SADDLE packs. All parts needed to setup either configuration will be included in the kit. So if a customer already has saddles, there’s no need to buy shorties, and vice-versa.

We arrived at the nats with the car in shorty configuration. Prior to qualifying Ty’s father took the car through tech to see if we can run it that way. If they said no then we would have gladly converted it to saddle configuration and ran it like that for the entire event. The ROAR official said it was fine the way we had it. We find it more convenient to work with the shorty because you only need to remove one battery strap and you don’t need a jumper wire. It is also lighter by whatever the amount of weight difference is between the two types of batteries. Even though the shorty is lighter, our car is still well clear of the legal minimum weight.

Ty’s D413 went through tech at least 8 times (2 practice, 4 qualifiers, A1, A2) and each time we got the OK to race.

After Ty wins A1 and A2 in very close battles, we find that we are being protested by said “unnamed manufacturer”, citing that rule about battery fitment. Manager(s) from this unnamed manufacturer wrote up a protest and asked their drivers who qualified in the A-main to sign it (only drivers from the same main can file protests against other drivers within that main). THEIR OWN DRIVERS IN THE A-MAIN REFUSED TO SIGN THE PROTEST.

Furthermore, unnamed manufacturer’s manager then went to other teams and tried to get other A-main drivers to sign the protest. ALL REFUSED TO SIGN.

In the end one of their other managers who was in the B-main signed it and filed the protest. Because he wasn’t even in the same main as Ty, ROAR rejected it.

Some notes I got from this ordeal:

1. I already admired all of the racers in the A-main for their driving skill. Now, I admire them even more for their integrity.
2. Personally I didn’t have a problem with the protest itself. But I have a problem with the timing of when the protest was filed and how it was filed. Why did they wait till after A2? They could’ve filed it as soon as cars started going through tech so we can go to our saddle configuration. And the fact that they still insisted on filing the protest even after all other racers in Ty’s main refused to sign it is simply spineless.
3. Unnamed manufacturer shouldn’t be crucified for this cowardly act if in case somebody does reveal who they are. Their own A-main drivers refused to partake in this bogus protest. Others pitting under their tent probably didn’t even know anything about it. It is probably, or at least hopefully, just a case of a couple of individuals under unnamed manufacturer’s employ acting on their own accord.
4. WE WON.
Congrats Torrance! Way to go.
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Old 08-12-2013, 08:36 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by T. Deguzman View Post
The D413 can be configured to run SHORTY or SADDLE packs. All parts needed to setup either configuration will be included in the kit. So if a customer already has saddles, there’s no need to buy shorties, and vice-versa.

We arrived at the nats with the car in shorty configuration. Prior to qualifying Ty’s father took the car through tech to see if we can run it that way. If they said no then we would have gladly converted it to saddle configuration and ran it like that for the entire event. The ROAR official said it was fine the way we had it. We find it more convenient to work with the shorty because you only need to remove one battery strap and you don’t need a jumper wire. It is also lighter by whatever the amount of weight difference is between the two types of batteries. Even though the shorty is lighter, our car is still well clear of the legal minimum weight.

Ty’s D413 went through tech at least 8 times (2 practice, 4 qualifiers, A1, A2) and each time we got the OK to race.

After Ty wins A1 and A2 in very close battles, we find that we are being protested by said “unnamed manufacturer”, citing that rule about battery fitment. Manager(s) from this unnamed manufacturer wrote up a protest and asked their drivers who qualified in the A-main to sign it (only drivers from the same main can file protests against other drivers within that main). THEIR OWN DRIVERS IN THE A-MAIN REFUSED TO SIGN THE PROTEST.

Furthermore, unnamed manufacturer’s manager then went to other teams and tried to get other A-main drivers to sign the protest. ALL REFUSED TO SIGN.

In the end one of their other managers who was in the B-main signed it and filed the protest. Because he wasn’t even in the same main as Ty, ROAR rejected it.

Some notes I got from this ordeal:

1. I already admired all of the racers in the A-main for their driving skill. Now, I admire them even more for their integrity.
2. Personally I didn’t have a problem with the protest itself. But I have a problem with the timing of when the protest was filed and how it was filed. Why did they wait till after A2? They could’ve filed it as soon as cars started going through tech so we can go to our saddle configuration. And the fact that they still insisted on filing the protest even after all other racers in Ty’s main refused to sign it is simply spineless.
3. Unnamed manufacturer shouldn’t be crucified for this cowardly act if in case somebody does reveal who they are. Their own A-main drivers refused to partake in this bogus protest. Others pitting under their tent probably didn’t even know anything about it. It is probably, or at least hopefully, just a case of a couple of individuals under unnamed manufacturer’s employ acting on their own accord.
4. WE WON.
Awesome congratulations on the win. Its about time for a sturdy 1/10 4wd
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Old 08-12-2013, 08:43 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by madweazl View Post
Everyone likes to hate on ROAR and insinuate they're single-handedly destroying racing but they really do keep costs down. If the local tracks would stick to ROAR rules, most racers would be better off in the wallet department.

I'm sure the D413 will conform to the rules just like every other manufacturer has. It's still a prototype and way to early for the armchair quarterbacks to start throwing the rule book at it.
If it doesn't meet the requirements then is doesn't belong on the track at a roar sanctioned event prototype or not... And neobuggy didn't say it did or that it did not meet the requirements. But it looks like the point is moot.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:24 PM   #120
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Or is it?

Muaahahahahamuahahahahamuahahaha. LOL.
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