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Old 08-12-2013, 10:14 AM   #76
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that's pretty interesting on the protest filed. So in general does ROAR tech for this battery issue upfront or does a protest need to be filed first?

I would assume it should have been caught in tech. Then again this is ROAR we are talking about...
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:15 AM   #77
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to me a big thing that I am curious about is how will this design be taken in general. It seems the common way right now is to run saddles in the rear of the buggy, rest of the crap up front.

In the 1/8 E buggy world, that layout as well as the Tekno battery forward style layout are common, with Tekno's point of view from what I recall being you can carry more corner speed that way. Based on what I have seen on the track watching 2 highly skilled locals go at it, one with a vehicle with the forward battery design and another with the saddle style setup, it seemed like Tekno was on to something layout wise.

Always wondered how that could be applied in 1/10 scale successfully.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:21 AM   #78
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to me a big thing that I am curious about is how will this design be taken in general. It seems the common way right now is to run saddles in the rear of the buggy, rest of the crap up front.

In the 1/8 E buggy world, that layout as well as the Tekno battery forward style layout are common, with Tekno's point of view from what I recall being you can carry more corner speed that way. Based on what I have seen on the track watching 2 highly skilled locals go at it, one with a vehicle with the forward battery design and another with the saddle style setup, it seemed like Tekno was on to something layout wise.

Always wondered how that could be applied in 1/10 scale successfully.
I dont think Im sold on the idea that more weight in the front is ideal. From what I understand in real car racing, 50/50 weight distribution is ideal. This should also be true in rc. For instance, with the dex410 being designed for nimh, switching to lipo made the rear end lighter with the front having more weight than the rear. Once you add weight to the rear getting 50/50 weight bias, the car gets much better, thats why you see a rear weight set for the car......
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:29 AM   #79
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some may argue that the saddle config has a lower CG, but having half the batt weight on the motor side just doesn't add up imo. I agree with tekno on their theory on that. Besides, I think ROAR should change the rules to allow shorty packs across the board so we can start to see different designs in on/off road. The current designs have hit an epitome imo. If the D413 really uses shortys, I give them credit for paving the way.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:37 AM   #80
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some may argue that the saddle config has a lower CG, but having half the batt weight on the motor side just doesn't add up imo. I agree with tekno on their theory on that. Besides, I think ROAR should change the rules to allow shorty packs across the board so we can start to see different designs in on/off road. The current designs have hit an epitome imo. If the D413 really uses shortys, I give them credit for paving the way.
i agree with the rule and why ROAR created it. they didn't want every manufacturer coming out with a battery specific to their buggy's design. there's nothing wrong with the current rule. as a manufacturer if you want to run shorty's, just make sure that it is also configurable to accept saddles or a full size pack.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:38 AM   #81
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"real car" racing is where i have been for the last 13 years. weight distribution is a very sensitive subject that has to do with suspension design, hp, which wheels drive the cars, etc.

in a rear wheel drive, 50/50 front and rear, and 50/50 cross weights are desired. in production cars this helps with consistency of handling and has less to do with traction (for power or turning).

in the scale RC world it is a different animal, especially in electric. the power in the 1/10 and 1/8 scale cars is significantly more than the full size "real" car.

the only thing in "real" car work that would compare is actually F1 (IMHO). F1 cars arent running around with flexable bodies, weird chassis lay outs (they have stricter rules) and they arent racing off road and jumping gaps easily 10 times the size of the car.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:45 AM   #82
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Don't be surprised if the production buggy is setup to be "Versatile" as far as battery layout goes.
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Old 08-12-2013, 11:51 AM   #83
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Once a manufacture designs a car that is optimized for shortys, everyone will follow suit. The current designs are solely based on your standard stick type or saddle batteries. And that limitation is creating a bottleneck with layouts, hence all manufactures end up with the same designs. Imo, at the point they allowed saddle packs, the battery dimension criteria should have been thrown out, as long as it made the same voltage. I don't think we should be dictated with rules based on the technology level of the 80s.
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Old 08-12-2013, 11:53 AM   #84
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Don't be surprised if the production buggy is setup to be "Versatile" as far as battery layout goes.
Yeah, like "extra" holes on the chassis...
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:01 PM   #85
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I would assume it should have been caught in tech. Then again this is ROAR we are talking about...
ROAR decided at this event to disregard their own Rule 8.2.3 that is posted on their website. They didn't notify anyone prior to this even that this was going to happen aside from a very very select few. There we many cars that did not conform to the rule and people were told that they decided not to enforce that rule that weekend and it was OK to run their cars. This is a very poor display by ROAR to knowingly allow illegal cars to compete and allowing cheaters at the event. If the rule was going to be disregarded at this event it should have been posted in their official rule book and amended before the event, to allow everyone the same chance of changing their vehicles to suite the new rule (or lack of a rule).

The D413 was under such close supervision by the designer and the mechanic that almost no one outside of ROAR could even get a glimpse of the vehicle. Their pit had banners top to bottom around their tent and only a doorway. Competitors couldn't see it, so nobody could protest it. Until some pics popped up online that made it almost certain that the car was running configuration that made it break ROAR rule 8.2.3. A protest late Sunday was filed and was thrown out because of a technicality on who filed it. Not because the car was deemed legal or illegal.

But who knows if the car was legal or not. ROAR let cars walk through their tech that were in blatantly in violation of this rule. And allowed people to break the posted rules on ROAR's website and possibly enhance the performance of their vehicle and didn't care.

But they sure cared if you didn't have headlights on your stadium truck.
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:05 PM   #86
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if that is the case, that sucks for those in attendance following the posted rules as well as for ROAR too. Has ROAR commented at all about this? Would be cool to hear their side of things.
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:12 PM   #87
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"real car" racing is where i have been for the last 13 years. weight distribution is a very sensitive subject that has to do with suspension design, hp, which wheels drive the cars, etc.

in a rear wheel drive, 50/50 front and rear, and 50/50 cross weights are desired. in production cars this helps with consistency of handling and has less to do with traction (for power or turning).

in the scale RC world it is a different animal, especially in electric. the power in the 1/10 and 1/8 scale cars is significantly more than the full size "real" car.

the only thing in "real" car work that would compare is actually F1 (IMHO). F1 cars arent running around with flexable bodies, weird chassis lay outs (they have stricter rules) and they arent racing off road and jumping gaps easily 10 times the size of the car.
That doesn't mean 50/50 weight distribution is not optimal. From experience with 4wd RC cars, 50/50 is far more stable in a general manner as far as handling characteristics......
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:14 PM   #88
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Anyways, the car looked awesome on the track. I wonder what kind of diffs it has?
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:15 PM   #89
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Anyways, the car looked awesome on the track. I wonder what kind of diffs it has?
Gear Diffs
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:25 PM   #90
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Gear Diffs
Jeremy...thanks for that. We're you at eNats the previous weekend? I think I spoke to you for a couple of min. You were swapping a motor in a D812 V4.

So since you answered the diff question: belt or shaft?
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