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Old 09-22-2014, 09:39 AM   #4786
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Poor quality??you must have a different kit than I do
The term slop has a negative connotation associated with it. Some people equate slop with quality but that is not necessarily true. As Torrance has stated, the car is built that way as is the d812 which is also an excellent car...
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Old 09-22-2014, 09:53 AM   #4787
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IDK, but the Button head screws I think are a mistake for the Spur. If the screws for the spur were countersunk, they would align the gear perfectly to ensure it sits centered. To me it seems the Spur easily sits to one side ever so slightly with the current design, hence the seeming out of roundness. These things are manufactured using software that takes numerical input and it's nearly impossible to pump out so many units imprecisely. On top of that, modern machines have sensors built in that constantly monitors dimensions and any components found to be less than perfect are thrown into a recycle bin to be melted back down and put into production for future runs of that material.
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Old 09-22-2014, 09:57 AM   #4788
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The term slop has a negative connotation associated with it. Some people equate slop with quality but that is not necessarily true. As Torrance has stated, the car is built that way as is the d812 which is also an excellent car...
For reasons I already stated, I beg to differ.

I will agree though that the term Slop is a bit much for this car, as that term is more befitting of the B4.1/2. This car has a bit of excessive play.
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Old 09-22-2014, 10:23 AM   #4789
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For reasons I already stated, I beg to differ.

I will agree though that the term Slop is a bit much for this car, as that term is more befitting of the B4.1/2. This car has a bit of excessive play.
Except the car performs excellently as does the d812....... And in the end that's what matters most does it not? Who cares if a car is nice and tight but doesn't perform as well as a looser car, define quality how you want but to me performance and durability is king....
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Old 09-22-2014, 10:31 AM   #4790
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So if a car performs well it gets exceptions on precision? Then the 4.2 should be faultless and everyone should run it because it WAS the best car of its generation AND it had plenty of slop to go around.

Using my racing experience and knowledge, if a car performs well with said play, just think how much better it would perform if you added superior precision. Don't know how anyone can feel that's somehow not accurate. The perfectionist in me will always make a car as precise and tight as possible and it always improves a vehicle. I'm sure if anyone does the same with their 413, it would make an already excellent car even better.
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Old 09-22-2014, 11:07 AM   #4791
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Poor quality??you must have a different kit than I do
The plastics are too soft. A lot of play in hubs and steering. Out of round spur gears.
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Old 09-22-2014, 11:07 AM   #4792
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So if a car performs well it gets exceptions on precision? Then the 4.2 should be faultless and everyone should run it because it WAS the best car of its generation AND it had plenty of slop to go around.

Using my racing experience and knowledge, if a car performs well with said play, just think how much better it would perform if you added superior precision. Don't know how anyone can feel that's somehow not accurate. The perfectionist in me will always make a car as precise and tight as possible and it always improves a vehicle. I'm sure if anyone does the same with their 413, it would make an already excellent car even better.
Are you assuming the car wasn't made precisely the way it is? So if the car is as made with said precision and still loose then it is quality? Precision and quality are two different things anyways. You can make junk with precision.... I do not assume the car would be better if tolerances were tighter, I try not speculate on things I can't test and don't know... I have had tight off road cars that bind when dirty and it was the fault of the tight tolerances.... We can agree to disagree in our differences in what we define as quality.... yes, an out of round spur isn't good.

For a mechanical system isn't performance the most critical metric in defining it. If system A has looser tolerances yet performs better than system B which has tight tolerances, which system is of higher quality?
Like I said, to me performance is the most critical metric of quality...
Sorry for the thread jacking....
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Old 09-22-2014, 11:11 AM   #4793
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Poor quality??you must have a different kit than I do
Explain to me how you think this car is of high quality.
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Old 09-22-2014, 11:12 AM   #4794
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bought on 21 april 2014 and today is 22 september 2014

9 race weekends. ( both dirt and astro )
over 50 practice sessions

I had to replace 1 front shock shaft due to a full speed crash and a rear bearing

It was a great season.
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Old 09-22-2014, 11:34 AM   #4795
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bought on 21 april 2014 and today is 22 september 2014

9 race weekends. ( both dirt and astro )
over 50 practice sessions

I had to replace 1 front shock shaft due to a full speed crash and a rear bearing

It was a great season.
Awesome pic dude
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Old 09-22-2014, 12:34 PM   #4796
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I do not assume the car would be better if tolerances were tighter, I try not speculate on things I can't test and don't know... I have had tight off road cars that bind when dirty and it was the fault of the tight tolerances.... We can agree to disagree in our differences in what we define as quality.... yes, an out of round spur isn't good.
How on earth can you say you cannot test this? You have a 413 and thus can purchase more precise ball cups and studs as well as the steering mod to remove most of the play in the system. As such you most definitely CAN test and actually see if what I am saying is factually correct. Just because something is performing stellar, that doesn't mean it cannot be improved upon. If so, might as well never upgrade anything on any of your RC cars, so that argument makes no sense.

I too have owned vehicles who's systems are perhaps too accurate in the way of precision (I still have my original Andy's Carbon Composite RC 10 which has the absolute most precise slide rack steering system likely in the history of all RC) and all it took was a few ultra-fine grains of debris to get caught in there and it locked up. Compare it to the 22's sloppy train wreck of a slide rack and it's the complete opposite of the spectrum. The 22 2.0 is a tad better and perhaps the middle ground, but still lacking enough that TLR addressed it via bearing driven bell cranks. This is a prime example of a company addressing an issue that while not detrimental to the performance of the vehicle, did in fact improve performance via the improved consistency.

Lastly, this is not thread Jacking as we are discussing the D413 and potential issues, deficiencies. I guess in the end we will indeed have to agree to disagree.
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Old 09-22-2014, 12:40 PM   #4797
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Not to be a ass but every car could be better. In some form or another there are issues with all of them. I too thought that the slope in the steering was excessive but the buggy works, and works great. The buggy performs awesome and is built like a tank. What more do you guys want. I race with a guy that has a extremely nice Schumacher that is extremely high quality but guess what, that doesn't mean faster lap times on the track as the 2nd time out with the D413 I put 2 laps on him in the main and he is of equal caliber driving wise. If you don't like the slop then sell it and buy a xray, kyosho, or Schumacher. It is what it is.
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Old 09-22-2014, 12:48 PM   #4798
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You are assuming I said the car wasn't great. It most definitely is. Most of them are actually.

The B4.2 is great out of the box, BUT being as I owned 2 of them and had enough of the slop, I actually removed 85% of it via cups and studs and am saying, that the car, great as it was to begin with, was even better. No reason why this wouldn't ring true for the 413.
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Old 09-22-2014, 01:09 PM   #4799
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If you don't like the slop then sell it.
and there will be ppl in line for it. lol
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Old 09-22-2014, 01:11 PM   #4800
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you may be right on the countersunk screws on the spur. that prob would help center them.
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