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Old 09-17-2014, 11:51 AM   #4681
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I love the car, but don't like the slop in the ball cups. Is anyone using something else other than the stock ball cups?
It is not the ball cup, it is the up and down play on the grommets in ackerman arm. It is designed to have the play but some do not care for it and will fill off just a bit of the height of the grommet to take that play out. If you do this be sure not go even one hair to far or you will bind it up when you tighten things down.
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Old 09-17-2014, 12:30 PM   #4682
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It is not the ball cup, it is the up and down play on the grommets in ackerman arm. It is designed to have the play but some do not care for it and will fill off just a bit of the height of the grommet to take that play out. If you do this be sure not go even one hair to far or you will bind it up when you tighten things down.
I filed the grommets in the ackerman arm. That slop is gone. I'm talking about the remaining slop from the ball cups. Yes the car drives great, but yes theres slop all over the place on this car. Just curious as to what people are doing or not doing.
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Old 09-17-2014, 12:44 PM   #4683
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I filed the grommets in the ackerman arm. That slop is gone. I'm talking about the remaining slop from the ball cups. Yes the car drives great, but yes theres slop all over the place on this car. Just curious as to what people are doing or not doing.
The car was engineered with the slop so that the car's handling would stay more consistent as time is put on the buggy. The D812 was built with the same philosophy.
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Old 09-17-2014, 01:06 PM   #4684
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The car was engineered with the slop so that the car's handling would stay more consistent as time is put on the buggy. The D812 was built with the same philosophy.
Thank you.
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Old 09-17-2014, 01:07 PM   #4685
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See if TLR Ball Studs fit on the car. I imagine they will. Then use TLR Ball Cups. That's the only way I was able to remove the slop from my 4.2. From there on it's been crisp.
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Old 09-17-2014, 01:09 PM   #4686
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lol. i heard the same thing when ppl talked about the losi scte....Losi slop is fast slop. and now HPI slop is too.
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Old 09-17-2014, 01:15 PM   #4687
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The car was engineered with the slop so that the car's handling would stay more consistent as time is put on the buggy. The D812 was built with the same philosophy.
This makes absolutely no sense. Precision = greater consistency.

Imprecision is not a philosophy. It's a detriment to consistency. If you come out of a left hand turn and gun it, the car might veer slightly to one side, shoot out of a right turn and the car might veer another direction or the same. How does that equate to consistency?

My B4.2 suffered from this and once I replaced the Ball Cups and Studs, my car will come out of any corner and drive perfectly straight every single time. If it's ok to have some slop, why not use bushings instead of bearings? Why not use RTR grade servos?

I will never buy that "Slop" was purposely left in this car (or any other) to maintain consistency as the car gets long in the tooth. What??!?!?
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Old 09-17-2014, 01:44 PM   #4688
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This makes absolutely no sense. Precision = greater consistency.

Imprecision is not a philosophy. It's a detriment to consistency. If you come out of a left hand turn and gun it, the car might veer slightly to one side, shoot out of a right turn and the car might veer another direction or the same. How does that equate to consistency?

My B4.2 suffered from this and once I replaced the Ball Cups and Studs, my car will come out of any corner and drive perfectly straight every single time. If it's ok to have some slop, why not use bushings instead of bearings? Why not use RTR grade servos?

I will never buy that "Slop" was purposely left in this car (or any other) to maintain consistency as the car gets long in the tooth. What??!?!?
You can PM head engineer T.Deguzman about it..
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Old 09-17-2014, 02:16 PM   #4689
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Regardless what Torrence says, as big a fan of his work as I am, he couldn't sell me on that principal. To top it off, this car is far too expensive to have excessive play anywhere. And yes, while it might be superb, it is most definitely expensive and as such, one should expect greater precision.

This is my real racing machine and if it had slop equivalent to the 413 I wouldn't be able to put in consistent laps no matter how hard I tried. Hell, it wouldn't even pass inspection and I'd be instructed to go back to my pit to fix it.



Like I said, I had the very same excessive slop on my 4.2 and remedied it and the car was immediately faster due to the increase in consistency. If you think your 413 is crisp handling now, get rid of some of that "play" (slop is more befitting of the 4.2) with better cups and studs and then see if what I say is accurate.

I produced some of the very best Triggers in Paintball and it would have been pointless to spend all that money on precision bearings and engineering if the pivot screw they rode on was of a smaller diameter and allowed for side to side slop. The extra side to side play means extra travel which equates to a slower trigger pull. Therefore it was paramount to ensure the bearing was a snug fit on that pivot screw in order to make the pull more efficient to provide the ever so desirable crisp snappy pull my Triggers were known for.
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Old 09-17-2014, 02:20 PM   #4690
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Regardless what Torrence says, as big a fan of his work as I am, he couldn't sell me on that principal. To top it off, this car is far too expensive to have excessive play anywhere. And yes, while it might be superb, it is most definitely expensive and as such, one should expect greater precision.

This is my real racing machine and if it had slop equivalent to the 413 I wouldn't be able to put in consistent laps no matter how hard I tried. Hell, it wouldn't even pass inspection and I'd be instructed to go back to my pit to fix it.



Like I said, I had the very same excessive slop on my 4.2 and remedied it and the car was immediately faster due to the increase in consistency. If you think your 413 is crisp handling now, get rid of some of that "play" (slop is more befitting of the 4.2) with better cups and studs and then see if what I say is accurate.

I produced some of the very best Triggers in Paintball and it would have been pointless to spend all that money on precision bearings if the pivot screw they rode on was of a smaller diameter and allowed for side to side slop. The extra side to side play means extra travel which equates to a slower trigger pull. Therefore it was paramount to ensure the bearing was a snug fit on that pivot screw in order to make the pull more efficient to provide the ever so desirable crisp snappy pull my Triggers were known for.


I certainly understand where your coming from and am not going to try and argue your points. I just have to relay the information that was given to me.

Nice Shifter Kart Btw!
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Old 09-17-2014, 03:28 PM   #4691
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I appreciate your position, been there myself before.

BTW, my kart isn't a shifter. It's a Rotax Max straight. Not enough shifters down here for steady competition. This beast is fast enough though. Get to 7500RPM and hang on until 14K in a blistering ever so violent instant. Sadly I'm prepping it for sale as my partner up and quit on me, leaving me high and dry, and Karting is too difficult to do alone. My son is also bummed out because I'm selling his too. (he's the kid in the pic) Wish I had investor money for him though because he is one gifted kid behind the wheel of a Kart.

Anyhow, back on topic… Anyone who wishes to eliminate play in their D413, find precision Ball Cups and studs and replace them throughout your vehicle. Done.
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Old 09-17-2014, 03:33 PM   #4692
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I would use the tlr cups if not the hb
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Old 09-17-2014, 04:09 PM   #4693
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I would use the tlr cups if not the hb
Which TLR cups are those? Do you happen to have the part number? Thanks.
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Old 09-17-2014, 07:44 PM   #4694
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TLR Cups are listed here and the ball studs are there as well. There are different sizes so be sure of what you need so you can order everything.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...03002#t4-PARTS
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Old 09-17-2014, 08:04 PM   #4695
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For those using the ae plastic caps. Are they really tight? I could not even get one to screw all the way down
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