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Old 06-23-2014, 02:04 PM   #3286
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I would just use metal. Hopefully with ppl putting 4 pole motors on it, they will come out with a metal option. I know people successfully run plastic spurs on 1/8 ebuggys, but the center oils a lot lighter as well.
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:44 PM   #3287
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I would just use metal. Hopefully with ppl putting 4 pole motors on it, they will come out with a metal option. I know people successfully run plastic spurs on 1/8 ebuggys, but the center oils a lot lighter as well.
I don't have a D413, but I do have a 4-pole motor in a 1/10 4wd buggy, and have been running this combination since I built the buggy (about 5 months). I haven't had any issues with stripping the gears from power delivery, only from when the meshed changed. There appears to be higher wear on both gears, but I'm willing to work with that to keep my motor of choice.
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:44 PM   #3288
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I wish my kit didn't have missing parts so I could be out trying to eff up my spur gear right now.
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:50 PM   #3289
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So far I have run quite a bit with no spur problems. Probably about 30-40 packs.

My opinion is that there are spur problems because there is no slipper. I am thinking about the force on the spur/pinion when the wheels suddenly stop, like if you are on power in the air and then land and the wheels suddenly stop. With any other 4wd, once the force reaches a certain point the slipper slips, likely saving the spur. On this buggy, 100% of that force is transmitted to the mesh between the pinion and spur. Having the center diff increases the weight of the driveline, increasing the force further.

I would guess that the spur strength is average, but it is under a lot more force than the average spur gear.

That is what I am inclined to think as well. It seems from later posts after, there are others that are thinking along similar lines.

Now there are other factors that could also be included that would/could compound the issue at a faster rate. Gear mesh set too loose, motor shifting, worn out pinion, ESC and radio brake setting set too high (giving full lockup under braking), Dirt/rocks getting caught in the teeth, and of course driving style. Going with a brand new pinion with a brand new spur, as per Ty's recommendation, will probably help but eliminate the eventual issue. No slip in the drive train, at least no slip when you may need it the most. With the drive train style being pretty much a clone for the 1/8th eBuggies, there's no doubt that it can and does do the job. I think the difference being the pitch of the pinion and spur between the two are now showing the limitations of the drive train when paired with 48p pinion and spur.

This issue almost reminds me of the days when I knew guys trying to run 64p in a mod 2wd buggy. When it worked, it was noticeably better, but when it didn't, you'd toast a spur quick. that was one of the reasons that the BK pitch gears came about, if people remember them. The fine gear ratios of 64p but with the type of strength of a 48p.

Anyway, hopefully the minds at HB will address the issue and take the needed steps to correct it in some form. While I know a driver like Ty probably had little issues with the car, most of the rest of us are not Ty, and we'll likely have parts failures that HB hadn't seen yet.
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:53 PM   #3290
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When it comes to slippers and 4WD people constantly lock down the slippers which results in a static system which defeats the purpose. It's called a slipper because it's designed to slip a little. I run a DEX410 and I have a little slip built in and it has been flawless and has NEVER turned out on me and a few guys at my 2 local tracks run the DESC and the dual lock nut system hasn't loosened on them that I can remember. I've driven some of those trucks and they drove really well and never lost drive and never stripped a spur.

As for Ball Diffs, they are just fine and do their job exquisitely well, when assembled with quality parts and set properly. Too often people speak ill of Ball Diffs but more races and more championships have been won with them than anything else. While gear diffs might be fantastic they are an even bigger pain in the ass than Ball diffs to get just right because in order to tune you have to pull them out of the car (pretty easy for me) and then pull them apart and clean them out and then add a different weight oil and rinse and repeat until it's just right. It's a whole heck of a lot more work (and messy) than sliding an allen key into a hub and turning the opposing wheel to adjust. And contrary to popular belief, YES, you can fine tune via the Ball Diff. The window is rather small, but it's there and is effective if you know what you're doing. Each have their pros and their cons and I won't say one is better than the other, but the 413 is clearly suffering some sort of issue in the drive train causing all these spurs to fail.

Who knows? it just might very well be the material it's made out of, but I doubt with all his years of experience Torrence would make a vehicle of this caliber and not go with a material he already knows is up to the task.

I still say a slipper with just the right amount of slip (not set to full lock) would be perfect here.
Yes I know what you mean I should actually take away the stress of the drive train. I had the Desc410 v2 and the slipper worked on dirt/clay but not for indoor/carpet and high bite... all drivers just had to fully tighten the double nuts (and loctite them) and even then the slipper would get loose after a while. From my point of view you don't need a slipper if there is a center diff, at least not on the Desc410 v2... the other 4WD SC's don't have it.
Off course it's different with the DEX410 and I think the new Dual slipper on the V4 is something that can really help when setup correctly.

As for ball diffs I do also agree that they are much easier adjustable (for most of the cars without even taking a wheel of) and depending of the material of the balls also the window can be larger or smaller.
But still I prefer gear diffs since our season consists of 4 carpet/astro and 2 clay track races.

I believe you are right with the HB spur gears. They might not be the strongest... and with that otherwise bullet proof drive train the weakest part goes first. I just wanted to point out, that you can still strip the spur gear with a correctly set slipper when you overdo it
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:35 PM   #3291
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time to chime in

1 my pinion that stripped the spur did not look suspecious when i mounted it, it did NOT have the saw tooth shape like it did after the spur stripped...however it was used and i think what happened is this.....the hard anodizing on the pinion had worn away, this leaves soft aluminum...the spur is made of a fibrous plastic....

plastic with fibers, resin with fiber its all abrasive (go talk to any machinist, they will tell you they can cut aluminum for a week without resharpening the bit, but with plastic+fibers etc, they have to resharpen often, like every few cuts)

since the pinion was worn from another spur earlier on in its life, i think the D413 spur simply started to grind down the pinion, FAST...until at a point it chewed my spur

my spur stripped after doing an "S" shaped turn, driving up the mountain, i noticed something was off before reaching the top....the mountain is a two step affair where you kind of stay on power (not much or you will overshoot it) but from step1 to step2 you get a little bit of air 6-8" and you stay on power, again not much power or it will send the buggy into low orbit

so what really happened...who knows...i have learned my lesson...and i will only run steel pinion....i popped an AE gear on my diff + steel pinion (robinson) and made it work, the mesh has been perfect ever since with no adjustment needed.

so was my stripped spur my fault...most likely...my worn pinion wore through the smooth surface of the spur which in turn exposed the fibers and started to grind away the pinion.

i havent had problems with switching between pinion in my b44, b4.2, tlr22...never stripped anything there, but never ran a 6.5t motor either, and there was a slipper...

diff oil...50+K oils suck to get out of the diff, i left my opened diff in the sun for almost a day and most had come out of the diff by then, i then took a clean toothbrush, and cleaned as well as i could to get the rest out (no motorspray)...when done i filled the diff with 80K, dropped in the small gears and let them sink into the goo, topped off by filling in behind the small gears, putting the outdrive gear into the oil as well, and scraped off the excess.

only got 3 packs through the buggy today(building a B5m), i like the way it handles, still tons of punch to launch it etc....but going down the straight i do think its going to fry the front tires if your heavy on the throttle, it did help keeping the rear down on heavy breaking, and in some sections where it would wheelie at times it was much more settled

BTW the gears someone was mentioning for the scte is made of DELRIN, but delrin comes in many formulations...you can get it with ptfe(teflon), glass fibers, carbon fibers, kevlar fibers, different hardness, different flex and many more options...so just saying delrin is awesome (and it is) you need to know what type of delrin has been used
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:42 PM   #3292
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lass, who makes the 80K? i think 80K would be ok at norcal, but not heavy enough at delta (if you ever go there).
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:55 PM   #3293
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Mugen and CoreRC make 80K.
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Old 06-23-2014, 09:06 PM   #3294
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thanks josh.
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Old 06-23-2014, 10:19 PM   #3295
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I'm calling BS on most of the read in here. There are too many seasoned racers stripping spurs. NOT ONE SPUR WAS STRIPPED RUNNING THEIR PREVIOUS CARS. I have personally seen 2 of these stripped and I won't question the mesh. I look forward to seeing how many make it through next months Jconcepts race. Better pray Tessman shows up
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Old 06-23-2014, 11:11 PM   #3296
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I think it is safe to rule out incorrect initial setting of the mesh for folks that are stripping spurs. It being the design/strength of the spur alone hasn't been proven definitively though. What can be said about folks that have loads of runs on their cars without stripping a spur versus folks with less that have?

Ty drives the car flat out, full throttle and brake for a whole run and doesn't have issues. How could that be considered not being hard on the car? That is exactly the the proper type of stress to put on a drivetrain when determining if something like a spur isn't strong enough. What is it that the "average" driver does differently that should be accounted for in regards to spur gear life?

There is no doubt that something is going on, but to say it is the spur gear design/toughness at fault without asking the right questions isn't right. The trick of course is hoping the right(HB) people can answer those questions.
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Old 06-24-2014, 02:16 AM   #3297
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I think it is safe to rule out incorrect initial setting of the mesh for folks that are stripping spurs. It being the design/strength of the spur alone hasn't been proven definitively though. What can be said about folks that have loads of runs on their cars without stripping a spur versus folks with less that have?

Ty drives the car flat out, full throttle and brake for a whole run and doesn't have issues. How could that be considered not being hard on the car? That is exactly the the proper type of stress to put on a drivetrain when determining if something like a spur isn't strong enough. What is it that the "average" driver does differently that should be accounted for in regards to spur gear life?

There is no doubt that something is going on, but to say it is the spur gear design/toughness at fault without asking the right questions isn't right. The trick of course is hoping the right(HB) people can answer those questions.
Whats the difference?
A lot of people think they know how to build a car but they actually dont .
I used to work in a rc shop and what i saw there is beyond imagination.
There is always someone who is destroying everything.
I read a lot over other cars that i have owned that they have this and that problem.Well i dont have any problems.And i am pretty hard on throttle.
My D413 has now about 20 packs on a high grip astro turf surface with a lot of bumps and the spur is still like new.Proper mesh adjusted once and no problems since.
Sorry if someone is offended but thats how it is.
If you break something that no one else does then you are doing something wrong.
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Old 06-24-2014, 03:58 AM   #3298
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We know Ty is hard on the throttle when landing - the designer was describing why the body was designed how it is - so that Ty could fly through the air, nose down and stab the throttle hard while landing...
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Old 06-24-2014, 04:41 AM   #3299
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Last edited by STLNLST; 06-24-2014 at 04:54 AM. Reason: Who cares about a car I don't even have.....lol
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Old 06-24-2014, 05:00 AM   #3300
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Proper mesh adjusted once and no problems since.
+1, I think it is easy to miss the sweet spot the way the motor mount is adjusted and as hard as it can be to see the mesh as you adjust it. I also think it is easy to slip it out of place with lack of locktite.

But I do not think it is an issue of poor material with the spur gear. It is the growing pains of a new car.

That being said, when spurs are off backorder I may order one as a spare for myself even though I have not had any issue so far. All it takes is one moment to blow the teeth off it.
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