Sponsored Drivers running in Sportsman Class
#46
I see that as a problem. Nothing worse then showing up at the track and having 15 different classes with enough for only a main or two. So boring. Who wants to go through a couple rounds of qualifying just to end up in the A main anyways because that's all there is. I like it when we are 5-6 mains deep in the class. If you are not happy with being in a bottom main, then it should be a goal for you to practice more and work on your setup to advance to a higher main. Just like most things in life, if you want it, then you have to work for it.
#47
/\ the truth!
#48
Suspended
I see that as a problem. Nothing worse then showing up at the track and having 15 different classes with enough for only a main or two. So boring. Who wants to go through a couple rounds of qualifying just to end up in the A main anyways because that's all there is. I like it when we are 5-6 mains deep in the class. If you are not happy with being in a bottom main, then it should be a goal for you to practice more and work on your setup to advance to a higher main. Just like most things in life, if you want it, then you have to work for it.
used to be back in the dark ages we'd go to the track and have maybe 2 or 3 classes, but the mains were always 2 or 3 or 4 heats deep. you started off in the d-main and worked your way up until you could run with the fast guys.
didn't the sportsman class develop from what we used to call the old rookie class, that we started for the new guys and kids showing up their first couple of times? this was a place for people to get started racing, but it wasn't a real class per se.
seems to me the problem is that somehow the sportsman class has been legitimized, i even see it as a class listing at bigger races.
but we have a problem today, and it starts with childhood where we give trophies to last place teams in little league or participation awards for showing up. people says it's so as to not ruin kid's self-esteem, so everyone is a winner, but when I was a kid you had to earn self-esteem and if you wanted to be a winner you needed to work for it.
#49
Tech Addict
iTrader: (1)
The number and diversity of classes is perfect - it is exactly at the point where the participative market has determined it should be.
As for sponsored vs. unsponsored, an opinion I hold very deeply is that privateers (i.e. those solely 'out of pocket') should never be required to compete against (ANY level of) sponsored racer - unless they choose to do so.
As for sponsored vs. unsponsored, an opinion I hold very deeply is that privateers (i.e. those solely 'out of pocket') should never be required to compete against (ANY level of) sponsored racer - unless they choose to do so.
Last edited by gee-dub; 05-01-2013 at 10:55 AM.
#50
There are sponsored drivers and factory drivers.
Sponsored drivers get discounts for being loyal to a particular brand. Speed is not always important as long as they remain loyal to the brand and they are helpful and friendly to customers.
Factory drivers race/test/develop product. They are racing in pro classes only and are the fastest guys period. They help customers and promote the companies they represent.
Some companies have both levels of driver and both serve a valuable purpose to thier respective sponsors.
Sponsored drivers get discounts for being loyal to a particular brand. Speed is not always important as long as they remain loyal to the brand and they are helpful and friendly to customers.
Factory drivers race/test/develop product. They are racing in pro classes only and are the fastest guys period. They help customers and promote the companies they represent.
Some companies have both levels of driver and both serve a valuable purpose to thier respective sponsors.
#51
Novice and Expert are skill levels, amateur and professional, are not.
Amateur means you it's something you do, but don't make your primary living doing it. Professional means it's something you do, and you make your primary living doing it. So you can be an "Expert Amateur", or even a "Novice Professional".
I personally don't think skill level classes have any business in RC racing, as all it does is open up every bodies skill level to personal interpretation, and sand bagging. Just run motor classes and let the mains sort out the rest. It's that simple. Fewer classes the better.
Amateur means you it's something you do, but don't make your primary living doing it. Professional means it's something you do, and you make your primary living doing it. So you can be an "Expert Amateur", or even a "Novice Professional".
I personally don't think skill level classes have any business in RC racing, as all it does is open up every bodies skill level to personal interpretation, and sand bagging. Just run motor classes and let the mains sort out the rest. It's that simple. Fewer classes the better.
#52
Tech Adept
iTrader: (11)
Simply said, if someone is sandbagging then the race director should be able to recognize it, and advice them to bump up. Maybe if the track implements some sort of rule to have X-amount of times a sportsman wins, then they bump up. If the racer was able to learn when to jump from novice to sportsman, they should learn how to jump up to expert.
As for a class just for factory drivers on big events, that's what invite is for.
As for a class just for factory drivers on big events, that's what invite is for.
#53
The easy answer to all this is get rid of sportsman class all togather and have a 2wd 17.5 blinky rookie class, 17.5 class and then open. win three rookie races and move up to 17.5 and by the time your really good at 17.5 then when you move to open you will be way ahead of alot of people because your driving skills will be on par.
I understand sponsored in sportsman is unfair but only chassis sponsored, but 17.5 is far from sportsman. Nitro is diffrent as there is no middle ground there is open and expert and expert is expert for sure.
I think some of the problems is all the classes and seeing people purposly run a lower class for a trophy or plaque and I guess some people just don't have the integrity or care for others and those should not be sponsored.
I understand sponsored in sportsman is unfair but only chassis sponsored, but 17.5 is far from sportsman. Nitro is diffrent as there is no middle ground there is open and expert and expert is expert for sure.
I think some of the problems is all the classes and seeing people purposly run a lower class for a trophy or plaque and I guess some people just don't have the integrity or care for others and those should not be sponsored.
#54
Tech Adept
iTrader: (9)
i find this thread a bit comical. what is the real complaint here? sponsored drivers in a big event in sportsman, normally never a sportsman class for a big event its usually open, stock and super stock. so this leads me to believe that youre complaining about club racing. as stated earlier " i find it funny that a sponsored driver is in the B Main" thus that person belongs in that class. you can be sponsored by almost any company, but you are not a Driver for that company.
each person and race director know who is sponsored and who is a driver for a company.
if a sponsored sportsman driver races, and puts a lap or several laps down on the field no competition it isnt fair, if you are all on the same pace and he or she wins but by seconds what is the real complaint here.
and the statement if youre sponsored by any company by any ammount of discount you need to be sportsman i know for a fact i have 2 youngins at my track sponsored that are under 6 years old. hell bump em up to expert theyre sponsored drivers throwin down a 9 5:15 and expert is on a 15 5:00 move outta the way we got some bumps coming up across the board.
we all race toy cars at the end of the day, nuff said.
each person and race director know who is sponsored and who is a driver for a company.
if a sponsored sportsman driver races, and puts a lap or several laps down on the field no competition it isnt fair, if you are all on the same pace and he or she wins but by seconds what is the real complaint here.
and the statement if youre sponsored by any company by any ammount of discount you need to be sportsman i know for a fact i have 2 youngins at my track sponsored that are under 6 years old. hell bump em up to expert theyre sponsored drivers throwin down a 9 5:15 and expert is on a 15 5:00 move outta the way we got some bumps coming up across the board.
we all race toy cars at the end of the day, nuff said.
Last edited by Reiki; 05-01-2013 at 09:08 PM.
#55
Tech Addict
iTrader: (13)
Personally I don't think sponsorship matters when it comes with where people should race. Now a full factory ride is a different story. Being sponsored doesn't mean a thing in this hobby. It's just a way for companies to "pay" people to help them advertise by giving them a discount. Dakotah Phend races at our local track often. He races the open class because that's all our track runs. Even if our track offered more, I know he would only run open. Not because the track only wants to run that, but because no one wants to run stock or sportsman. We all want a try against the best even if at the end of the day we are in the D main. The race director sets the qualifying order by the ability level people put down on their sign up sheet.
We just need 17.5 and Open class. Period. Why do we need more then that? People can run novice if they are new, until they win 2 or 3 times then they are ready to move up to either 17.5 or Open. It's just club racing after all. Why do they need all of these baby steps? It's not like someone new to the hobby is going to sign up for the Worlds the day after they picked up their rtr...
Trying to do a spec class is a joke too. Just inviting people to find loop holes or ways to cheat the system then no one is happy.
We just need 17.5 and Open class. Period. Why do we need more then that? People can run novice if they are new, until they win 2 or 3 times then they are ready to move up to either 17.5 or Open. It's just club racing after all. Why do they need all of these baby steps? It's not like someone new to the hobby is going to sign up for the Worlds the day after they picked up their rtr...
Trying to do a spec class is a joke too. Just inviting people to find loop holes or ways to cheat the system then no one is happy.
#56
Tech Master
iTrader: (2)
17.5 is far from a novice/sportsmans class, it's real stock racing where clean lines and consistancy mean everything.
a guy can kill it in open/mod and get schooled in 17.5.
'round here sportsman is the entry level class, kid's, chicks and newbs.
now if mod it the big class and all the fast guys run it i can see where 17.5 might be the next step from sportsman.
i see nothing wrong with sponsored guys running 17.5, it aint no walk in the park.
a guy can kill it in open/mod and get schooled in 17.5.
'round here sportsman is the entry level class, kid's, chicks and newbs.
now if mod it the big class and all the fast guys run it i can see where 17.5 might be the next step from sportsman.
i see nothing wrong with sponsored guys running 17.5, it aint no walk in the park.
#57
Tech Addict
iTrader: (17)
There is definitely a difference between Sportsman racing and Stock racing:
http://www.liverc.com/news/race_resu...ock_Nationals/
http://www.liverc.com/news/race_resu...ock_Nationals/
#58
Tech Master
iTrader: (10)
You guys must have a lot of interest in the 17.5 class wherever you guys are racing. In Indiana, we ONLY run open classes. The slower racers are put in the lower main. Nobody complains either...because the only way to get faster is to race with faster people. All stock and sportsman do at club levels is water down the classes IMO. Unless you have enough interest for 2 heats of mod and 2 heats of stock...why not just combine them for club days.
#60
Tech Legend
iTrader: (294)
:
I wish this was true for the younger generations. Most seem to be very "I need to be good immediately or I don't wanna play" in their mentality. I'm sure every generation has said the same about the generation after them. I could go off on a rant that would be paragraphs long, but I'd rather just say: "Get off my lawn!"
I wish this was true for the younger generations. Most seem to be very "I need to be good immediately or I don't wanna play" in their mentality. I'm sure every generation has said the same about the generation after them. I could go off on a rant that would be paragraphs long, but I'd rather just say: "Get off my lawn!"
Yeah, but the timing of the whole thing was wrong. The problem with the spec Losi stuff was the fact that it was not just tires, but a whole spec chassis. It came at a time when interest in the hobby was at an all time low. With all the new racers, a spec class with a control tire would go huge. Leveling the playing field by limiting the traction eliminates the need to have the latest "spec" item that pushes the speed just a bit more. At big races the spec class would still be split into pro/sportsman/novice by lap times. It would make it so everyone could run more than one class with the same car. Think what it would be like to be a novice at a big race, and only be able to race one class. Also the colored tires looked stupid.
The problem we had back in the day trying to do the whole losi spec tires was that traction with them was horrible. The last use I found for them where they kind of worked was on the front on my 4wd buggy to take away steering. Some of them felt like recycled 80s style RC tires without the mad max sized tread.
As for the whole color tire thing, honest didn't have a problem with that. Heck, if someone did this now, I wouldn't mind colored tires so you can easily see who is running what. And do different colors for different compounds. That way, if it is determined that say "Green" is the tire for the track to spec on, really quick to see who is not legal.