400units

iTrader: (2)

Wow, that was a very good thread to read. My brain is still spinning a little. There were a lot of really good discussions on both sides. Here is one of them:


Quote:
Originally Posted by mattnin
Weight transfer or load transfer is a function of only three things, the wheelbase, the CG height, and the braking or forward acceleration force.

So, because anti-squat raises the rear ride height on acceleration and thus raising the CG height, load transfer to the rear wheels is increased with anti-squat.
Allow me to respectfully disagree. The purpose of the suspension is to control weight transfer. That is why we have so many spring and oil choices. Every adjustment on an RC car is to make the weight transfer in a way that is optimum for best performance.

Everything you said in your earlier post was correct except this statement:

"Raising the rear ride height because of anti-squat on acceleration promotes rearward weight transfer"

Not trying to pick a fight, just pointing out the error in your thinking. Raising the rear ride height effectively transfers weight from the rear axle to the front axle. Anytime you use anti-squat you are limiting the amount of weight transferred rearward through the springs thus improving on power steering. Anti-squat promotes weight transfer through the hinge pins instead of the springs. Associated electronics Cheat Sheets support what I'm saying. So does tmail55. There is some initial traction to be gained with anti-squat, but it can easily upset your set-up if there is enough traction present or you have too much A.S. It does this by resisting compression of the rear suspension on rough tracks. Sure, it does push down on the track, but that downward push turns into jacking if the A.S. Force exceeds the net downward force of the chassis, and it always pushes up on the chassis as hard as it pushes down on the tires. See Newton's Laws. This is the balance I was talking about. If you have so much anti-squat that your car's chassis is lifting above normal ride height, you are transferring unnecessary weight to the front and losing rear grip.

The force generated by a 3-degree anti-squat setting is less that 5% of the total forward driving force generated on acceleration. Thus when traction is low, the benefit of anti-squat is only 5% of a very low number and quite limited. The weight transfer from the chassis squatting is far more beneficial in this instance. This is supported by AE's statement:

less anti-squat:
• more side traction in corners
• more rear traction for slick or bumpy surfaces

To simplify my answer, and to more correctly address your question, TT; yes, anti-squat is the angle of the rear inner hinge pins. This is always used to describe an angle upward toward the front of the car. It is used to generate lift on jumps and improve on-power steering out of the turn. You can have too little and too much. Too little would mean no steering out of corners(pushing). Too much would result in loose rear-end late out of corners and poor performance on rough acceleration zones.

darcness

iTrader: (3)

Yea I really enjoyed that thread about AS. Sometimes even the things you don't even think about have ALL kinds of scientific data and experiences of racers. It's just crazy trying to put together a cohesive tuning guide when you're dealing with this kind of stuff. Some of the times I have so many guides open and so much going on that I have to just step back and take a break for a while as to not turn my brain to mush.

darcness

iTrader: (3)

I plan on adding sway bars and differentials in soon. Just want to make sure I don't get too ahead of myself. Plus I'd like to get some more discussion going about these camber links and shocks before I go much farther. To me, they are the most complicated bits I've delved into so far.

darcness

iTrader: (3)

Just added some more information to the "Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" portion to help as tuning aids. If you're doing any of the suggestions in the first part of the thread, you should also look down at those notes to make sure you understand how to go about tuning it properly.

Stanfsu

iTrader: (294)

Great Thread

Stanfsu

iTrader: (294)

Looking for a book/pdf that would explain all the setup options.
Suggestions?

KIDD1

iTrader: (1)

If you find one let me know but what I have been doing is copy and paste the info you want to compile and put that in a word document and save for future reference. I also print out and place in a binder for track use.

darcness

iTrader: (3)

I try not to stick with only one tuning guide. I really feel like that's limiting myself and I don't like to do that when it comes to something this complex. I try to use a bunch of guides, searches on google, and information I get here on RCTech to compile what I have in the thread.

That being said I do really like the JQ THE guide and the elvo page. Both have been really good references for me.

eper

iTrader: (14)

the best way of all to learn these things is to actually go to the track and change one thing at a time and drive the car and feel what has changed. then always go back to original setup and change something else drive the car and feel what that change does.. you can read every setup guide out there but actually feeling whats going on is the best way to learn. Everyone has a different feel for whats going on. I am not saying dont read these guides i'm saying do both but feeling the difference will teach you the most

Stanfsu

iTrader: (294)

Agreed. Just looking for something to carry with me when I'm at the track to reference back to...

duuuuuuuude

Great thread! I had plans to compile a guide to take to the track, but it looks like its been done for me.


Concerning the wheelbase and rear traction question from 400units:

Changing the wheelbase at the rear wheels effectively changes how much weight is hanging behind the axle centerline and how that weight is distributed.

Moving the rear centerline forward places more of the weight on the rear and less on the front when accelerating.

Moving the rear centerline back places less weight on the rear and more on the front when accelerating.

This adjustment usually is pretty small (a few mm's at most) and like all other adjustment, is not a fix-all. Just another step in the process...

ajshoots

iTrader: (7)

A question from a dirt oval guy that is converting to offroad. Do you guys use 4 wheel scales to make sure that the car is balanced? Example: left and right front have same weight. Left and right rear have same weight. Does front to rear weight % mean anything in offroad setups? BTW this is a great thread!!

ufoDziner

iTrader: (39)

I just downloaded RC Setup Workbench on my iPad. While I can't vouch for the accuracy of the contents, it does appear to be very thorough.

t0p_sh0tta

iTrader: (35)

Yes it makes a noticeable difference. Most just don't have the means, or the desire to do so, but each class has a standard range.

e.g. 2WD buggy / Truck / SC - somewhere around 70/30

ajshoots

iTrader: (7)

Thanks for the reply!! Have scales and alot of setup stuff that I wasn't sure would have a place in offroad. I believe in K.I.S.S.( keep it simple stupid) but always found that scaling a car for oval was a ticket to success!!