R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric Off-Road

Like Tree4Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-04-2016, 09:54 PM   #8851
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 254
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

was just talking bout this tonight,what would be the result of over drive gear with the wheels spinning faster in the front versus a thicker diff fluid that causes same wheel speed but more torque from front wheels? Tekno 410 ish guys are doing the over drive as well

I have another scte that needs tightening up,can someone post the parts #s to all the parts needed to do so including the screws and nuts for these cen balls,as well as the losi 2.0 plastic ends I got way more durability outa those plastics than the stock ends.do the cen balls fit inside the steering rack? trying to order all these parts at local hs is a pain without part numbers.... this should be a sticky on first page info if someone has all the part #s needed to do so

anyone ever tried alloy ball ends,some with brass inserts,some without...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-4-Fem...-/130293599038

http://www.integy.com/st_prod.html?p...w#.VowUq_krLcc
the entigy front castors and blocks work great,maybe these do as well?

Last edited by ResultsRC; 01-05-2016 at 12:11 PM.
ResultsRC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2016, 02:02 PM   #8852
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 154
Default

Im converting back my pistons from rcshox to TLR SCTE.

In my inventory I have # 54,55,56,57.

Are any of these = to the #3 piston from the owners manual ?

IF NOT, any recommendations on which will work best?

Thanks
braderb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2016, 03:48 PM   #8853
Tech Prophet
 
Casper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Orange, Ca
Posts: 17,738
Trader Rating: 34 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by braderb View Post
Im converting back my pistons from rcshox to TLR SCTE.

In my inventory I have # 54,55,56,57.

Are any of these = to the #3 piston from the owners manual ?

IF NOT, any recommendations on which will work best?

Thanks
#3 is a 4 hole 1.05mm pistion

The smallest piston you would have is the #57 and is 1.092mm so no what you have would not work. A 4 hole #57 would be bascially the same as a #4 from the SCTE stock stuff.

4 hole #57's would be basically what comes with the 22 shock kit.
__________________
TLR/Losi Team Driver
TLR/Losi | Tekin | DE Racing | Spektrum | Exotek | JBRL | Kolor Koncepts | OC/RC |Sticky Kicks | Imagine It Graphics | Casper-RC.com
TLR 22 4.0 SR, TLR 22T 3.0 (laydown), TLR 22-4 2.0, Spektrum DX6R

WWW.CASPER-RC.COM TLR and Tekin setups
Casper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2016, 09:09 PM   #8854
Tech Master
 
Lowe's48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,006
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ResultsRC View Post
was just talking bout this tonight,what would be the result of over drive gear with the wheels spinning faster in the front versus a thicker diff fluid that causes same wheel speed but more torque from front wheels? Tekno 410 ish guys are doing the over drive as well

I have another scte that needs tightening up,can someone post the parts #s to all the parts needed to do so including the screws and nuts for these cen balls,as well as the losi 2.0 plastic ends I got way more durability outa those plastics than the stock ends.do the cen balls fit inside the steering rack? trying to order all these parts at local hs is a pain without part numbers.... this should be a sticky on first page info if someone has all the part #s needed to do so

anyone ever tried alloy ball ends,some with brass inserts,some without...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-4-Fem...-/130293599038

http://www.integy.com/st_prod.html?p...w#.VowUq_krLcc
the entigy front castors and blocks work great,maybe these do as well?
I've used these with great success on my MIP scte. They just have to be drilled out one size bigger and they last me about a year of racing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Losi-LOSA604...EAAOSwxCxT3~JG
__________________
Tekno Sct410.3-VRP,HW120 SCT-PRO,Pro4-4300kv,Hitec,LRP 8000/2s
Tekno SL.3-VRP,HW120 SCT-PRO,T8i-1950,Hitec,LRP 5000 4s
Weapon of choice : Airtronics M12
Home track : Coyote Hobbies,Ca
Lowe's48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2016, 05:22 AM   #8855
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 101
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default Dogbone driveshafts

I pretty much run the last dunford setup that didn't have the 22 shocks. I installed the new dogbones. The truck developed a off power push. That just made the truck feel less consistent. It did seem to possibly pick up a tiny bit of speed. To confirm I reinstalled the original cvds setup. And the truck felt better. Fast lap times were the same though. Has anyone changed their setup around for these dogbones. Possibly needs a different diff oil?
fordohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2016, 09:49 AM   #8856
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Mc Rae, AR
Posts: 1,365
Trader Rating: 65 (100%+)
Default

I have not tried it, but it was talked about before in theory. Unfortunately, I have limited track time in winter and can't test it. I think your on to something. Being able to test back to back can tell you a lot. I didn't think it would make much difference, but the front bone is where I think the advantage is for less friction. However, that angle has always wore out front shaft and front outdrive on the center diff at a high rate for me.
Thunder Trail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2016, 10:26 AM   #8857
Tech Addict
 
Josh L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Greenville VA
Posts: 665
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fordohio View Post
I pretty much run the last dunford setup that didn't have the 22 shocks. I installed the new dogbones. The truck developed a off power push. That just made the truck feel less consistent. It did seem to possibly pick up a tiny bit of speed. To confirm I reinstalled the original cvds setup. And the truck felt better. Fast lap times were the same though. Has anyone changed their setup around for these dogbones. Possibly needs a different diff oil?
Seeing how the front end should be more free wheeling than it was before, that would certainly explain the push effect, as there would be less front end resistance effecting weight transfer from planting the nose more.
You should try running slightly more drag brake for one.
An over drive gear set would be an awesome upgrade from Losi at this point.

Also which drag link are you running? If your running the short I would probably go back to the long to further to allow more ackerman to remedy this.
From the sounds of it, your a smooth driver that likes to roll through the turns rather than an aggressive driver like I am, in which I like hard brake transfers going with on-power drive outs that pulls my truck through the turn, so it doesn't affect my style as much.
Josh L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2016, 12:56 PM   #8858
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,527
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fordohio View Post
I pretty much run the last dunford setup that didn't have the 22 shocks. I installed the new dogbones. The truck developed a off power push. That just made the truck feel less consistent. It did seem to possibly pick up a tiny bit of speed. To confirm I reinstalled the original cvds setup. And the truck felt better. Fast lap times were the same though. Has anyone changed their setup around for these dogbones. Possibly needs a different diff oil?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh L View Post
Seeing how the front end should be more free wheeling than it was before, that would certainly explain the push effect, as there would be less front end resistance effecting weight transfer from planting the nose more.
You should try running slightly more drag brake for one.
An over drive gear set would be an awesome upgrade from Losi at this point.

Also which drag link are you running? If your running the short I would probably go back to the long to further to allow more ackerman to remedy this.
From the sounds of it, your a smooth driver that likes to roll through the turns rather than an aggressive driver like I am, in which I like hard brake transfers going with on-power drive outs that pulls my truck through the turn, so it doesn't affect my style as much.
Yeah, the ackerman link I put on my setup sheet I realized is wrong. Its lists the long link and I am actually running the short link. Sorry about that.'
'
Ryan
__________________
-Ryan Dunford
Horizon Hobby Spektrum Product Manager
TLR--Spektrum--Horizon Hobby--Tekin--Venom--Pro-Line--Sticky Kicks--Bradley FLD--ImagineIt Graphics--Casper-RC.com
TLR 22 3.0, TLR 22T 2.0, TLR 22SCT 2.0, TLR TEN-SCTE 2.0, TLR 8ight-E 4.0, DX6R
hacker07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2016, 04:37 PM   #8859
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 101
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hacker07 View Post
Yeah, the ackerman link I put on my setup sheet I realized is wrong. Its lists the long link and I am actually running the short link. Sorry about that.'
'
Ryan
I did try the drag brake and it just wasn't for me.
I'm actually running the long ackerman. I will probanly try it again with the short ackerman.
fordohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2016, 10:23 PM   #8860
Tech Addict
 
Josh L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Greenville VA
Posts: 665
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hacker07 View Post
Yeah, the ackerman link I put on my setup sheet I realized is wrong. Its lists the long link and I am actually running the short link. Sorry about that.'
'
Ryan
I like the short better as well, but in the case of what he explained with to much push, I would assume he is talking about "off-power push" by the way he explained it, wouldn't it make things worse by his running the short link?
That is assuming he is coasting into turns of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fordohio View Post
I did try the drag brake and it just wasn't for me.
I'm actually running the long ackerman. I will probanly try it again with the short ackerman.
You might not like drag brake and thats all good, but you still need to be taping the brakes just before turn entry either way.
The fastest drivers usually preach how important planting the tires is in order to get the fastest lines and smoothly grip into the turns.

Not saying this for your personally so don't take offence, but I find that a lot of people with SCT's who say they don't like drag brake are often the one's that don't understand how to manage the throttle with it over the humps and get nose dive problems, and/or simply don't understand how to take full advantage of compound tuning with the radio programming and think it's to harsh.
If I didn't understand how to fine tune these things the way I do, I would probably hate drag brake to. Again, not saying you don't.

The reason I personally find taking advantage of the feature is a huge benefit is because it's a lot easier, smoother and quicker to let out of the throttle for mid air shaping and/or to get the vehicle to brake plant more consistently than it is to actually have to push your finger forward and then back again to get on the throttle. You effectively eliminate an unnecessary mechanical action step while still having the forward push as a heavier set emergency option if needed, effectively gaining an additional feature that tends to get dialed out otherwise.
There are a lot of ways to fine tune a drag brake past baseline ESC programming if you have a nice radio. You can play with 50/50 - 70/30 trigger travels, expos, curves, delays, and dead band spacing that can really make it feel seamless and natural in function, rather harsh and abrupt.

Regardless of your thoughts on all that, another thing you should really consider trying is reducing your front end rake. You will notice a huge improvement in side bite with less of it.
Depending on many variables and conditions "like anything else", having to much steering throw will actually hurt you and promote excessive push as well.
A lot of the tekno guys promote the use of bump stops or EPA reductions to get your vehicle to more consistently bite and cut down on overall lap times.
That might sound counter productive to loose steering degree, but it actually makes a lot of sense when you think about it within certain surface types.
You can also move the battery forward if you like your suspension rigidness the way it is, but need that extra front weight to help tame it down around the bends as well.

Last edited by Josh L; 01-09-2016 at 12:14 AM.
Josh L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2016, 11:27 PM   #8861
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 154
Default

My friend is buying a new kit. The LHS just ordered one a week ago. Will the changes be incorporated in it?


Thanks for the info regarding pistons CASPER
braderb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2016, 12:03 AM   #8862
Tech Addict
 
Josh L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Greenville VA
Posts: 665
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by braderb View Post
My friend is buying a new kit. The LHS just ordered one a week ago. Will the changes be incorporated in it?


Thanks for the info regarding pistons CASPER
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know there has been no revisions made since the HD diffs where added to the kit from what I understand, so it will be the same as they where before the dog bone and 22 shock conversions came out with standard 12mm shocks and CVs.
Josh L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2016, 01:52 AM   #8863
Tech Addict
 
Josh L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Greenville VA
Posts: 665
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ResultsRC View Post
was just talking bout this tonight,what would be the result of over drive gear with the wheels spinning faster in the front versus a thicker diff fluid that causes same wheel speed but more torque from front wheels? Tekno 410 ish guys are doing the over drive as well
Interesting question!

Now that I am thinking about the differences in how you are thinking about it, I would suspect the main difference from a fluid weight increase to front diff vs a mechanical gearing offset would be noticed mostly when coming on and out of the power band, smoothing out the pulls and push effect felt when geared the same. I think about it more in relation to the center diff with an added benefit of rear drag not found any other way to date.

More mechanical resistance from the shorter geared rear end theoretically makes the vehicle drive like a lighter oiled center diff while on-power "yanking it's way through a course", with the bonus of a "rear only drag-brake" effect felt when coming off-power.

In short, an mechanical offset setup with the taller front gears makes the entire speed variance more predictable and less squirrelly on and off power, or put another way... Tighter feeling all around.

The trade offs here would be faster tire wear, less efficiency and a slight loss in snap ability if you like to whip around tight hooks and power out.
Also, if you don't maintain throttle pace, you will get a vehicle that likes to nose dive off a jump face.
All a small price to pay if the conditions suit the cause with mid to low traction environments, provided you know how to manage that throttle over jumps.

To finish your question of this compared heavier oiled front diff...
The higher CST front diff is going to shine by providing more on-power inner tire traction around a turn more than anything else.
IE - Those who are aggressive drivers tend to like a shorter drag-link and will often up the CST to the front diff to take full advantage of less ackerman offset.
The positive ackerman produced by the long drag-link is great for people who like to coast into and around a turn smoothly, holding a more consistent momentum.
Generally an increase in front diff CST would be a bad idea in their case, which would only produce more on power push that would fight the turn more in the event of coming back on power early, tossing the vehicle to the outside of the turn.

I don't know for certain, but I feel like some of these factors I have mentioned above was a lot of the reason TLR felt the front bind provided by the center CV was initially a good idea, and I think it probably would have been if it would have been the other way around. Meaning the bind should have been from the rear to better mimic the gear offset effect, which in my opinion is most likely why this was remedied on the Eight 4.0 chassis.
I'd be interested in hearing from Ryan on this one.

Anyhow I hope all this makes sense

Last edited by Josh L; 01-09-2016 at 02:46 AM.
Josh L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2016, 09:50 AM   #8864
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Mc Rae, AR
Posts: 1,365
Trader Rating: 65 (100%+)
Default

Thats deep and I like it.

Overdrive? There is a simple way to get more pull from the front by using a slightly taller tire. Same tires with different brand or style of foam will be taller enough to get some overdrive up front. I have done this some on 1/8 buggies, but not enough to talk about.

I find that once suspension and chassis setup is close I don't change it much. But Tires! I change tires throughout the day as track conditions change. Tires alone can have enough variables to discuss all day every day for weeks on end.

Ultimately, Tires are the most important setup change if everything else is in the ball park. Before getting into deep mechanical driveline changes consider different tires front to rear and different tire foam and compounds. Thats something I don't see discussed often. Maybe there is a reason. Keeping the best combo secret or just too hard to say it works well from track to track. Any thoughts on tire size to get more front drive?
Thunder Trail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2016, 01:32 PM   #8865
Tech Addict
 
Josh L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Greenville VA
Posts: 665
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder Trail View Post
Thats deep and I like it.

Overdrive? There is a simple way to get more pull from the front by using a slightly taller tire. Same tires with different brand or style of foam will be taller enough to get some overdrive up front. I have done this some on 1/8 buggies, but not enough to talk about.

I find that once suspension and chassis setup is close I don't change it much. But Tires! I change tires throughout the day as track conditions change. Tires alone can have enough variables to discuss all day every day for weeks on end.

Ultimately, Tires are the most important setup change if everything else is in the ball park. Before getting into deep mechanical driveline changes consider different tires front to rear and different tire foam and compounds. Thats something I don't see discussed often. Maybe there is a reason. Keeping the best combo secret or just too hard to say it works well from track to track. Any thoughts on tire size to get more front drive?
Agreed on the importance of tires being number one for sure!

All things considered however, in regard to the offset advantage/disadvantages discussed, I feel the effect would be much less vs the gear offset. The fluctuation of tire swell or ballooning already effects these things, (more pronounced with lighter diff fluids) during inertial weight transfer.
The actual gearing offset would be a more linear thing. The offset would always stay the same regardless of where the weight is shifted or relevant tire swell is on or off power.
I guess if it there where a large tire size indifference then you might see similar effect, but I feel like it would be impractical due to having to run two different types of tires to get it pronounced enough and or the fact you'd have to play with many foam inserts within a couple different compounds.
At least with the gearing you would always know what your working with without sacrificing optimal tire setup per surface type.
This is of course only theoretical conclusions without having tried it, just seems easier and makes more sense in my opinion to go with the gearing where possible if an overdrive is what your after.
Josh L is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 01:35 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net