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Old 10-25-2015, 06:44 PM   #8716
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22 shocks are lighter. Takes high weight out of an already top heavy car (can't do much about the body). 22 shocks are a better design with dual o-rings even though I had great success with the SCTE shocks. 22 shocks give you a much larger selection of springs. If you have other TLR cars you now have common shocks across all platforms. The biggest thing with this conversion is the lowering of the CG. Rear tower is lower which helps and the shocks are much lighter.





The dog bone center drive line really helps the care drive from the front end better and helps with getting the truck harder out of the corners.
Would you say the new shocks are more geared for indoor/high bite type tracks, or are they just better all around?
Just wondering how they will work on larger, outdoor 8th scale type tracks.
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Old 10-25-2015, 07:42 PM   #8717
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Would you say the new shocks are more geared for indoor/high bite type tracks, or are they just better all around?
Just wondering how they will work on larger, outdoor 8th scale type tracks.
They are better everywhere. You can get teh same pack and shock setups you are using right now (same 12mm bore) but you take out some high weight which means less body roll. Again larger selection of springs that fit over this size shock body unlike the SCTE shocks which have a larger OD that limit the springs you can use.
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Old 10-25-2015, 07:52 PM   #8718
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They are better everywhere. You can get teh same pack and shock setups you are using right now (same 12mm bore) but you take out some high weight which means less body roll. Again larger selection of springs that fit over this size shock body unlike the SCTE shocks which have a larger OD that limit the springs you can use.
Good to know, looking forward to trying them.
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Old 10-26-2015, 04:19 AM   #8719
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What I really want to hear about is driver's opinions on the new center driveline dogbone conversion . Very curious how different it drives versus the current setup. I'm currently running the whole Tekno front, rear, and center driveline system. So far it's very durable and runs a bit more silently than stock. I'm wondering if it's worth switching the center out for the new ones?
I have a test session on them. Can't tell any difference myself. I went from the Tekno stuff like you have. A new set of tires will likely offer a bigger performance improvement and lower lap times. IMHO, this is what you replace your current parts with after they are worn out.
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Old 10-26-2015, 04:22 AM   #8720
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They are better everywhere. You can get teh same pack and shock setups you are using right now (same 12mm bore) but you take out some high weight which means less body roll. Again larger selection of springs that fit over this size shock body unlike the SCTE shocks which have a larger OD that limit the springs you can use.
That sounds great. Can you share any setup info that works for you?

Hole location on tower as well as arm?
Shock oil?
Piston?
Springs?

Camber link same?

Any info is greatly appreciated.
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Old 10-26-2015, 09:48 AM   #8721
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That sounds great. Can you share any setup info that works for you?

Hole location on tower as well as arm?
Shock oil?
Piston?
Springs?

Camber link same?

Any info is greatly appreciated.
I need to get with Ryan to get a new setup sheet down but we have been running a fairly unique shock setup with the 22 shocks.

5 hole 1.0 with 40wt up front TLR purple springs
(http://www.tlracing.com/Products/Def...odID=TLR233020)
5 hole 1.1 with 35 wt in the rear springs I will have to check. I can't remember right now. I want to say Red but I have to check.

You will have to drill out blank pistons.
http://www.tlracing.com/Products/Def...odID=TLR233011
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Old 10-26-2015, 11:39 AM   #8722
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Good info. Look forward to new setup. I figured Frank would have it down by now. He would be the 22 shock guru What springs and pistons will I get with my conversion kit?
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Old 10-26-2015, 01:25 PM   #8723
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Good info. Look forward to new setup. I figured Frank would have it down by now. He would be the 22 shock guru What springs and pistons will I get with my conversion kit?
Black fronts and Orange rears (this is probably what I have on my truck)

Pistons are 4 hole 1.1's

http://www.tlracing.com/ProdInfo/Fil..._Manual_EN.pdf
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Old 10-26-2015, 02:36 PM   #8724
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Originally Posted by Casper View Post
They are better everywhere. You can get teh same pack and shock setups you are using right now (same 12mm bore) but you take out some high weight which means less body roll. Again larger selection of springs that fit over this size shock body unlike the SCTE shocks which have a larger OD that limit the springs you can use.
I suppose it's safe to assume these shocks have less overall travel, hence the heavier oil weights and tighter pistons?
With a 4.1 black front to a 2.9 Orange rear is a big rate gap it seems like!
I figure this must be for a very well groomed clay track?
Prolly don't even need to use the front sway bar on that stiff of a setup.

And I know I have asked before about the 2 stage VRP pistons, but is there a reason you guys don't run them rather than just drilling single stage blanks?
I just keep hearing how many, including some professional drivers are making statements of how they feel instant improvements to rebound and over all traction. I understand you pros mostly staying brand specific, but are the claims of said improvements shown on their dyno claims not up to par or worthy of said beneficial effects in your eyes?

I plan to pick up these 22 shocks, but I would like to hear your opinions of those pistons and if any of you feel they would be a solid addition to complement them with?
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Old 10-26-2015, 03:15 PM   #8725
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I suppose it's safe to assume these shocks have less overall travel, hence the heavier oil weights and tighter pistons?
With a 4.1 black front to a 2.9 Orange rear is a big rate gap it seems like!
I figure this must be for a very well groomed clay track?
Prolly don't even need to use the front sway bar on that stiff of a setup.

And I know I have asked before about the 2 stage VRP pistons, but is there a reason you guys don't run them rather than just drilling single stage blanks?
I just keep hearing how many, including some professional drivers are making statements of how they feel instant improvements to rebound and over all traction. I understand you pros mostly staying brand specific, but are the claims of said improvements shown on their dyno claims not up to par or worthy of said beneficial effects in your eyes?

I plan to pick up these 22 shocks, but I would like to hear your opinions of those pistons and if any of you feel they would be a solid addition to complement them with?
SCTE racing spring set springs
Black 3.99
Orange 2.96

So we are basically in the same place as spring ratings.

As far as piston setup. Ryan and I did quite a bit of shock testing (Ryan more than me, giving credit due) but we started working with multi hole pistons and really liked how the truck would accelerate much better with this type of shock package yet still maintain good pack and roll control. Yes we mainly run on indoor clay but this setup put down fastest lap time at the recent JBRL event run on wet outdoor track so it works well on multiple surfaces. Oil went up with more holes but due to the very small holes we used pack is still there. It was finding a balance in # of holes, hole size and oil. We went through quite a few different setups over a few days of testing.

As for multi stage pistons. It is hard enough to understand single pistons but to then throw in more variables like the MIP Real shocks, or VRP or RCshox setups. Can they work/do they work. I am sure if you can spend the time figuring them out and dialing in your car they would probably be better. For the average hobbiest who barely understands a basic shock setup this is too much IMO. For the die hard racer who can spend a fair amount of time at the track and truly understands what's going on I can see some benefit to those systems but I feel basic pistons get the job done quite well and we are still always learning how to setup different cars in different conditions using a simplified shock setup. So at the end of the day if you spend enough time at the track to figure it out go for it. I bet you can find an improvement with them and I do believe in the theory behind them. I also feel it is another thing to get wrong and another piece of the puzzle you could have problems with if they are not functioning right to hurt a setup.

Oh and shock travel. Ryan worked to optimize the droop and uptravel of the 22 shock package which was a main driver for the rear tower change. The setup oil and piston changes were made for other reasons not reduced travel of the shocks.
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Old 10-26-2015, 08:44 PM   #8726
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Well said.. That's the in-depth info I like to see.
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Old 10-26-2015, 09:00 PM   #8727
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Originally Posted by Casper View Post
SCTE racing spring set springs
Black 3.99
Orange 2.96

So we are basically in the same place as spring ratings.

As far as piston setup. Ryan and I did quite a bit of shock testing (Ryan more than me, giving credit due) but we started working with....
Awesome, I really appreciate the insight and in depth answer/opinions.
I can certainly see your point of concern in regard to consistency variables.
The reason I kept pushing the question is because I admit to being somewhat slightly skeptical as well of just how accurate the tolerances and mechanical flap function could really be on the smaller 12mm versions.
More often than not, mechanical soundness starts to fade when things get tiny.
Figured the larger 16mm 8th scale pistons would probably hold more true to consistent operation.

I may still give them a go, as finding things out the hard way is just in my nature I suppose. And if they do work out as advertised, all the better.

And about those spring rates and types?
I am obviously confused!
I just glanced over the 22 conversion kit and recalled someone stating that they where capable of sharing the 22 parts.
None of Amain's losi spring description charts list the color coordinated rates to match what you said exactly, but close enough to what you guys where running. . Is there a new specific batch that has come out that has changed rates or lengths to any degree, or is this an Amain mistake?
I understand the OD is smaller on the new shock bodies, but you said SCTE springs in your last comments, and now I am confused as to which kits I need to buy to have all of the correct front and rear sets for the new shocks.
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Old 10-27-2015, 08:02 AM   #8728
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Awesome, I really appreciate the insight and in depth answer/opinions.
I can certainly see your point of concern in regard to consistency variables.
The reason I kept pushing the question is because I admit to being somewhat slightly skeptical as well of just how accurate the tolerances and mechanical flap function could really be on the smaller 12mm versions.
More often than not, mechanical soundness starts to fade when things get tiny.
Figured the larger 16mm 8th scale pistons would probably hold more true to consistent operation.

I may still give them a go, as finding things out the hard way is just in my nature I suppose. And if they do work out as advertised, all the better.

And about those spring rates and types?
I am obviously confused!
I just glanced over the 22 conversion kit and recalled someone stating that they where capable of sharing the 22 parts.
None of Amain's losi spring description charts list the color coordinated rates to match what you said exactly, but close enough to what you guys where running. . Is there a new specific batch that has come out that has changed rates or lengths to any degree, or is this an Amain mistake?
I understand the OD is smaller on the new shock bodies, but you said SCTE springs in your last comments, and now I am confused as to which kits I need to buy to have all of the correct front and rear sets for the new shocks.
I may have read those rates from my list of measured springs. We got hold of a spring rate tester and measured a bunch of springs. Rates will vary slightly batch to batch.

TEN Rear Spring Rates
2.7 Red
3.0 Orange
3.3 Silver
3.6 Green

TEN Front Spring Rates
3.6 Green
3.9 Blue
4.2 Black
4.5 Purple

Not too far off advertised rates.
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Old 10-27-2015, 03:18 PM   #8729
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I may have read those rates from my list of measured springs. We got hold of a spring rate tester and measured a bunch of springs. Rates will vary slightly batch to batch.

TEN Rear Spring Rates
2.7 Red
3.0 Orange
3.3 Silver
3.6 Green

TEN Front Spring Rates
3.6 Green
3.9 Blue
4.2 Black
4.5 Purple

Not too far off advertised rates.
Ok, that clears it all up. I was thinking about building a tester out of a gram scale, controlled by a stepper motor worm drive that you could power from a USB wire. Might go ahead and do this for my own checking reasons.

What do you think about this trigger system coming for the higher end radios?
Takes care of the linear pull precision and any finger slop with the adjustable size inserts.
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Old 10-27-2015, 03:37 PM   #8730
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Ok, that clears it all up. I was thinking about building a tester out of a gram scale, controlled by a stepper motor worm drive that you could power from a USB wire. Might go ahead and do this for my own checking reasons.

What do you think about this trigger system coming for the higher end radios?
Takes care of the linear pull precision and any finger slop with the adjustable size inserts.
Interesting. My view on Radio's for the most part is find what is comfortable for you. Many radio's out there right now have very similar features on the high end side of things. I like Spektrum due to long battery life and light weight. I have used them for many years now after switching from my KO Mar's radio's back in the day.
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