thefasterpastor

iTrader: (32)

Hey, everyone. My name is Rev. Damon Singleton, "thefasterpastor," and my son and I have been racing both electric offroad and electric oval for 4 years now. A little over a year ago I accepted the call to a church in Wellington, KS and moved my family the 80 miles from our previous home, which also happens to be where the closest race track is.

I will try to keep this as brief as possible while getting my point across as well. My son and I love RC racing but due to our move, we no longer have the luxury of the racetrack being a five minute drive from our home. We have been the beneficiaries of the camaraderie, goodwill, and gratious assistance that is so characteristic of RC racers and over the last year or two have been fortunate enough to "graduate" on to being able to pay some of that assistance forward. I love to see the men at the track without children match up with the children at the track without fathers. It comes second nature to so many RC racers.

My situation is that I am working toward opening an RC racetrack in our new town. While part of my motivation is selfish (not having to drive 80 miles one way to race), what I am really after in this endeavor is the mentoring of kids and teenagers that takes place every time a track is open for business.

Here is my question for all of you experienced racers: What do I need to know to open a track?

Understand, I have extensive sales and business experience. I wholeheartedly understand what is required to run a business and this will not be a source of income for me. I have all the free labor I could ever need and have some government agencies working on some grants and assistance...so I DO NOT need to hear about how hard it is to keep a track above water, how much initial capital I will need, etc. I also am not seeking any promises that "If I build it, you will come."

What I really need to know is what are the not-so-obvious things I will need and need to know? What kind of equipment is required to build and maintain a track? What are the "hidden" expenses...other than utilities, rent/mortgage, labor, inventory, etc.? What are the things that an average racer does not know about that go along with track ownership?

I really and truly appreciate each and every response I get and I hope that anyone and everyone who has something to add will do so. As I said, I do have a selfish interest in this too, but my true hope and desire is to give the kids and teenagers something to do and people to learn from besides all the negative influences.

Thanks!

Rev. Damon Singleton
thefasterpastor

F1Yankee

i think all the infrastructure is easily overlooked when the attention is drawn to the racing.

the track material itself may or not be local. no rocks, please! you'd definitely need a bobcat, hand tools, compactor and probably a pickup, plus access to heavier equipment if needed like a steamroller.

extensive lighting and water, plus power and pits for a few hundred plus promoters/sponsors/teams for a big event. timing system, PA system, drivers' stand, handicapped ramps and bathrooms, hvac. how about a lunch/break room? it could help pull some weight with vending machines and birthday parties, et cetera. if there's a pizza shop nearby, i'd cut a deal with them - surely their sign hanging up over the pits is worth a monthly contribution? same goes for other local businesses; "if you like this track, do business with our partners at this real estate or that accounting"

in addition, there's the storefront, the stock room, a workshop / rc car hospital, at least 1 office room, somewhere for deliveries, and workrooms or sheds for all the big tools. an extensive security system also gives both management and racers some peace of mind.

1 thing that can't be purchased is track-building skill. the study of what makes a track fun, controlling the difficulty and track quality, sizing and spacing the bumps, jumps and turns. i'm lucky to have some skilled track builders where i race. you should consider talking to other tracks and maybe joining them for their track rebuilding process so you can see it done before you're on your own.

good luck!

racer1812

iTrader: (31)

You've won half the battle by saying money and labor are not your main issue. You don't specify what type of track, indoor, outdoor, dirt, carpet.

Does the area have racers already? If so what type are they? Is your goal to get people into the hobby without them making an initial investment first? That to me would mean some type of rental program (paid or unpaid).

Hidden costs, permits for the facility. If it's dirt you're gonna need a reliable water source.

I'm sure I'm missing a ton of possible issues but best of luck!

Cptn Cartwheel

iTrader: (4)

Patience, lots and lots of patience. a reliable workforce that understands all Chiefs and no Indians will ruin the best intentions. Rumors and gossip can ruin even the best places around. You're going to need pretty good parts support for all the breakable items and lots and lots of tires. the building is also very important. Yes if you can find 1 that has a dirt floor that would be ideal, but if you can't you have to seal the floor so the concrete doesn't suck all the moisture out of the clay. Having your pit spaces separate from the track cuts down on heating costs and will help keep the facility a lot cleaner. Also you're going to want to mix some dirt into the clay. It will help the clay retain moisture longer and also keep it softer so that when it comes time to do track changes the surface is easier to work with. Just straight clay when it dries can be as hard as concrete. You will need a bobcat with a fairly experienced operator, hand tamper, vibrating plate packer, lots of rakes and shovels , and perferrably concrete or block walls at least 8 feet high above the surface to help keep moisture(and bad drivers) in the building. Your also going to wants a tractor and a weighted roller to pull behind it kind of like a steamroller. You can fill them with water so that they way up to 500 pounds and are available at most larger tractor supply stores 4 around 200 bucks. You're going to want us electric outlets on each pit table and preferrably some kind of shelf in the middle of it . Lookup trackside hobbies and Raceway in Wisconsin 4 pictures how they did there's.

caaraa

Wow its good thread!

huffster

If you are in Kansas, I would look long and hard for a space for an Indoor Track and Pits. Good news is this will keep your track maintenance much lower over the long haul and, of course, give folks even more reason to come in out of the Cold. Around 4000 sq ft for a good sized 1/10th scale track, another 2500 for pit tables, 500 sq ft for Onsite Hobby Shop (?) Tons more info to fill in along the way !

RCHR

$5000 for a Point-Of-Sale (POS) system.
$3500 for a MyLaps decoder box
$150 for the transponder loop
$600 for RC Scoring Pro software (and you'll need a computer to run it)

thefasterpastor

iTrader: (32)

Wow! I can't express how much I appreciate everyone's willingness to help and insight!

I will attempt to address the questions that have been raised so far:

Indoor off-road, dirt track. Yes, there are racers in the area. The track I previously raced at was 45 minutes from Wichita (where a little over half their racers come from). I am now 20 minutes from Wichita (the opposite direction from the other track). Like myself, many of those racers grumble over the drive. Wichita is unable to keep a track going because of the cost of renting/owning real estate.

Utilities is one area where I have an advantage. My small town has great incentives to draw in existing businesses and to encourage the opening of new ones.

Regarding labor, the men in my congregation see the value in what I am trying to do and are on board with donating their time. None are experienced in RC racing, but all have farming background of some sort...which lends itself to dealing with the soil and mechanical aptitude (repairs). I have no doubt that free labor carries it's own issues, but I think the benefits definitely outweigh the risks on this one.

The true vision I have is to encourage experienced racers to either (a) buy a new or gently used vehicle, battery, charger, etc. or (b) donate one of their own used vehicles, batteries, charger, tires, etc. to the track to be used by a deserving child/teen. In return, they will get an equal dollar amount of racing fees waived. That way I get double the amount of racers, word of mouth, good publicity, etc. for the same amount of expense (roughly) and without having to purchase the equipment myself. I realize that this has the potential to cut a bit deep into my profits, but it's not as if this will be a perpetual thing. Once I have the vehicles & chargers, offering free racing in exchange for batteries & tires will raise my profits and keep the kids going.

I love the idea about the track sponsorship by area restaurants & businesses...and the party idea is golden!

I can see the need for a bobcat & experienced driver. Think I could get away with a 4x4 truck to pull the weighted roller around instead of having to get a tractor?

Keep it comin', everyone. I'll take all the free help, ideas, & advice I can get... and in return you get to know that your assistance is going toward something truly important that can have a very real impact!

ALIEN3T

iTrader: (2)

You might have selfish reasons to run it, (you want a place to play). But when helping people or want to do some good, what you care about and enjoy make it better to help others. Got to have a passion for it.

If you werent selfish in wanting a track, you wouldnt of had the second thought that what you want to do may be abkle to help someone. I think thats great.

racer1812

iTrader: (31)

Shovels get old real quick, some type of bobcat and or small tractor is almost a must.

A lot of tracks use one of these vs. a roller for packing as well..

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...5307_200325307

tommy911t

iTrader: (50)

When I was growing up, the idea of "tryin a few laps with a car" was about $300 from being a reality. I think initial buy in is hard to justify by just watching an RC race or a friend drive their car up and down a street.

Lately a few rental programs in my area has sprung up and gives me a lot of hope for the hobby.

Here's one in my area that is looking promising and may have some ideas that you could incorporate:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/northwes...l-program.html

Thanks to all the track owners for stepping up!

Cptn Cartwheel

iTrader: (4)

When I said tractor I meant lawn tractor, with the blade and shroud assembly removed of course. Direct drive would be the way to go because anything belt drive will slip and burn up the belts. if it really is farm country out there you shouldn't have too much trouble coming up with an old beat up lawn tractor. a 4 by 4 pickup would be too heavy and tear up the tracks too much.. You want to do this for the entire track and the only use the plate packer in really rough spots to even things out and on the face of jumps because if packed too much the water will just sit on top and get greasy instead of soaking in and becoming tacky. clay is best for traction but is also used in building dams because when packed its an amazing water barrier. You also want as few stones as possible and just pick out what you find on top during each rebuild, and sand is a tire and traction killerAn RC car only weighs between 4 and 8 lbs but at 35 miles an hour overtime the face of jumps gets pushed in and won't B level and flat anymore, which will throw Vehicles crooked of the jumps so make sure jump faces are packed very well. Your biggest obstacle is going to be your customers. No matter how good your intentions may be, well you just can't please everyone. No matter what you do or how well you do it people are going to complain when they don't get their way, even if it does work out better for the other 99 percent of the people there. These people will go out of their way too bash the place and you for their own childish and immature reasons. Hopefully having God on your side and a group of good hearted people backing you and helping you will help prevent as much of that as possible. Go on YouTube and watch videos of other tracks to find sections that you think are fun but don't copy layouts. You can look up some track layouts that I built at Raceworld Raceway, leisure hours has tons of videos and stuff from Norcal hobbies, Ocrc, wcrc and something i just found from the J Concepts Clash in Flowood looked pretty fun also.

jnslprd

iTrader: (5)

Hopefully because you are a priest, the local racers will treat you better than the average track owner.
This is the hardest group to please I have ever seen.

Teufel Racing

iTrader: (30)

Pastor,

Location, location, location. Like any other real estate proposal, location is key. Indoor or out, the same theory applies. Get the right location and things will be easier for those that will race/play there. Parking is always one thing that I think gets over looked. You can have the best place in the worls to race, but if you have to park and haul your gear a mile to get there, it probably isn't going to work. At the very least the complaints will be much more than you want to hear about.

With that said,

Power and water for outdoors are the next two things to make sure you have if you go that route. If indoors, it's usually not an issue. If going indoors, heat/ac and ventaliation are the things to be mindful of, along with what else has been posted for sq. footage needs.

If you could do something on the church property, that might help you with some of the other costs/issues that normal traks might encounter. Of course, that may also mean that you'd have to be a bit more strict on some of the other things that tend to show up at the track and/or in the pits.

Zerodefect

Acreage- find some useless cheap swamp land. Something barely good enough to park on. 7 acres should be plenty. You'll need room to park, pit, sleep, and park RV's and race trailers. Another cool bit about swampy land or at least land with a stream.......good track dirt can be dredged out of the wet areas.

Something to drag and pack the track with. Riding lawnmower without a deck, 4 wheeler etc. etc. Something that can tow a sheet of metal along. With removable chains bolted to it's bottom to tear the track flat. Then weld a 55 gallon drum to it's top. Fill with water to adjust how much dragging you want. Once the track is relatively smooth, remove the chains and drag some more.

Sometimes all you need is some rain or hose action to pack a track down.

Water and electric. Water is more important for wateriung track and cleaning tires. Racers can bring thier own car batteries to charge from. Some will have generators. Make sure you can talk people into putting thier generators at a distance, in the woods or something, and use extension chord to keep noise down.

Drivers Stand- 10+ feet tall. Use a double ramp, not stairs, for wheelchair access.

Tubes- duh
Pitlane- have an extension on the lane where the car can be set without cars hitting them (not needed for indoors)

Track- 80x140 with 13' lanes is what I'm trying to help build next year.

But I'm talking outdoors. Indoor offroad is a different world. When the weather is nice, I won't go near an indoor track. I prefer big open tracks and 2-3 day camping events.