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Old 04-21-2015, 11:27 AM   #8011
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Default Shocks bottoming out, need general guidance

We have a track that looks like this:

https://www.facebook.com/rcexcitemen...type=3&theater

where my car bottoms out on most of the jumps especially the "MIP" one to the left of the picture.

My issue is, the car is handling great otherwise with the exception of the large jumps. The rear ALWAYS slaps hard on the ground and it's disheartening. I've already broken electronics on this.

My rear shocks are 350 pst with the 3 holes by 1.3mm. I used to run 300 pst with 6 holes by 1.0mm. The car handled great with the 6 holes, but it was bottoming out then also. With me going to 3 holes, it appeared to have helped a little.

So my question is, if I go with the 2 hole by 1.4mm and even heavier shock oil (maybe 450), wouldn't the car then suffer tremendously in the turns and small bumps? Should I just change the piston, just the oil OR both? I recall reading something about "pack" and hoping someone could direct me to a thread about it since search is not coming up with it.
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Old 04-21-2015, 11:48 AM   #8012
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Originally Posted by theclutch View Post
We have a track that looks like this:

https://www.facebook.com/rcexcitemen...type=3&theater

where my car bottoms out on most of the jumps especially the "MIP" one to the left of the picture.

My issue is, the car is handling great otherwise with the exception of the large jumps. The rear ALWAYS slaps hard on the ground and it's disheartening. I've already broken electronics on this.

My rear shocks are 350 pst with the 3 holes by 1.3mm. I used to run 300 pst with 6 holes by 1.0mm. The car handled great with the 6 holes, but it was bottoming out then also. With me going to 3 holes, it appeared to have helped a little.

So my question is, if I go with the 2 hole by 1.4mm and even heavier shock oil (maybe 450), wouldn't the car then suffer tremendously in the turns and small bumps? Should I just change the piston, just the oil OR both? I recall reading something about "pack" and hoping someone could direct me to a thread about it since search is not coming up with it.
I blew my ESC on that track in the main during the tekin race. The last jump just before the straight in front of the drivers stand, my car landed perfectly on all fours, but slammed the chassis hard, I knew she wasn't right, ran all the way around the track, made it to the turn just after the triples in the back left corner, and had a corner marshal pull it. Sucked, 4 laps in and I was in the lead. Thought it was the motor, till I swapped it and had the same results. Threw my other esc in, and she was happy again.

That track is a awesome layout, and wicked fun to drive, but she's hard on parts.
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Old 04-21-2015, 11:51 AM   #8013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theclutch View Post
We have a track that looks like this:

https://www.facebook.com/rcexcitemen...type=3&theater

where my car bottoms out on most of the jumps especially the "MIP" one to the left of the picture.

My issue is, the car is handling great otherwise with the exception of the large jumps. The rear ALWAYS slaps hard on the ground and it's disheartening. I've already broken electronics on this.

My rear shocks are 350 pst with the 3 holes by 1.3mm. I used to run 300 pst with 6 holes by 1.0mm. The car handled great with the 6 holes, but it was bottoming out then also. With me going to 3 holes, it appeared to have helped a little.

So my question is, if I go with the 2 hole by 1.4mm and even heavier shock oil (maybe 450), wouldn't the car then suffer tremendously in the turns and small bumps? Should I just change the piston, just the oil OR both? I recall reading something about "pack" and hoping someone could direct me to a thread about it since search is not coming up with it.

Have you tried 1.6 1.1 rear pistons? Try the 1.6 1.1 rears with 30WT 1 dot rear springs.

If you go to Schelle's website they do have a tuning guide regarding what shock pistons, and oil weights work well per track situation.

Best,

Norse
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Old 04-21-2015, 12:31 PM   #8014
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Originally Posted by ezlight View Post
I blew my ESC on that track in the main during the tekin race. The last jump just before the straight in front of the drivers stand, my car landed perfectly on all fours, but slammed the chassis hard, I knew she wasn't right, ran all the way around the track, made it to the turn just after the triples in the back left corner, and had a corner marshal pull it. Sucked, 4 laps in and I was in the lead. Thought it was the motor, till I swapped it and had the same results. Threw my other esc in, and she was happy again.

That track is a awesome layout, and wicked fun to drive, but she's hard on parts.
Interesting... I had the SAME exact result... My car died on the same spot!
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Old 04-21-2015, 12:38 PM   #8015
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Originally Posted by Norse View Post
Have you tried 1.6 1.1 rear pistons? Try the 1.6 1.1 rears with 30WT 1 dot rear springs.

If you go to Schelle's website they do have a tuning guide regarding what shock pistons, and oil weights work well per track situation.

Best,

Norse
Since I already ran the 6 holes x 1.0mm, it wouldn't make sense for me to increase the area for the oil to go through (using the formula 3.14 x r^2 to get the area of each hole). 4.71mm^2 vs 5.7mm^2 area. The car would bottom out even more.

But would you be able to provide a link to "Schelle's" website?
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Old 04-21-2015, 12:46 PM   #8016
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I went to their website and facebook pages and cannot find the tuning guide?
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Old 04-21-2015, 01:00 PM   #8017
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I think Norse meant avids website but should apply to the schelle pistons as well:

http://www.avidrc.com/company/news/1...mm-Shocks.html
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Old 04-21-2015, 01:37 PM   #8018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theclutch View Post
Since I already ran the 6 holes x 1.0mm, it wouldn't make sense for me to increase the area for the oil to go through (using the formula 3.14 x r^2 to get the area of each hole). 4.71mm^2 vs 5.7mm^2 area. The car would bottom out even more.

But would you be able to provide a link to "Schelle's" website?
Couldn't see your video so I can't judge from that. Norse has a point in that the 1.6 1.1 might be interesting since the Avid or Schelle pistons have less blow-by between the piston and the housing.

We have had great luck with the Schelle 2x1.6 piston, the hole area is almost exactly the same as 3x1.3 and you have a tighter fit. I would start out with the same oil you were using.

/G.
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Old 04-21-2015, 01:42 PM   #8019
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Originally Posted by littleZEN View Post
I think Norse meant avids website but should apply to the schelle pistons as well:

http://www.avidrc.com/company/news/1...mm-Shocks.html
LittleZen is correct being the Avid site has shock piston, oil set ups. Thanks LilZen I think my memory is declining in my old age. I think Schelle includes a set up recommendations pamphlet with their Pistons.

Have an excellent evening and week my friends.

Norse
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Old 04-21-2015, 01:43 PM   #8020
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Originally Posted by Iketruman View Post
I went to their website and facebook pages and cannot find the tuning guide?
You can find the tuning guides in this post: Schelle Racing Innovations

/G.
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Old 04-21-2015, 01:45 PM   #8021
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Originally Posted by Norse View Post
Your right DiscountRC has everything listed but when one put the new floating servo mount in your cart, the system replies "part currently out of stock"

absolute Hobbyz had them listed 10 days ago but I believe they pulled the floating servo off as they didn't receive it. However they do have the new 3mm chassis, 12* aluminum caster blocks, aluminum rear hubs, graphite front X Brace, etc.

On another tangent:

I believe you can run the regular 15 XB4 now without using the front top deck as well, as long as one incorporates the X-brace and secures all off the front multifflex screws. I believe I saw a pic from Bent whom was running no top decks on the 2mm chassis, but had CF inserts running on the topside of the multifflex braces. I guess you can adjust how may screws you can use to adjust the rigidity of the cf plates to the plastic multifflex braces in conjunction with the chassis to multifflex adjustments that exist. Pretty cool tunning option.
Not sure when these parts will be released but it looks like it may be easy enough to diy.

Have an excellent day and week fellow XB4 thread members.
When we're running without top decks it's either with the 3mm option chassis or the stock 2mm chassis with stiffer side pods and carbon stiffeners for the chassis braces.

For both configurations we use the front 2mm X-brace.

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Old 04-21-2015, 01:48 PM   #8022
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@clutch, your oil is too light. You have no pack the oil moves through, and likely around the stock 3x1.3 hole pistons, causing you to bottom out and slap on jumps. And yes, the kit pistons are junk. Buy the Schelle 2x1.6's for the front and the 2x1.7's for the rear. Or even the Schelle/Avid 1.5+1.1's and 1.6+1.1's, but they come in packs of 4. Try running 400cst (AE 32.5-35wt) in the rear and 550cst (AE42.5-45wt) in the front. One dot rear spring, 2 dot front. The handling is still there, but better landings.
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Old 04-21-2015, 01:51 PM   #8023
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I find that small changes in rear droop really help the landings too. Increasing droop even by a couple mm will help those hard landings.
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Old 04-21-2015, 01:53 PM   #8024
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Originally Posted by GregerL View Post
Couldn't see your video so I can't judge from that. Norse has a point in that the 1.6 1.1 might be interesting since the Avid or Schelle pistons have less blow-by between the piston and the housing.

We have had great luck with the Schelle 2x1.6 piston, the hole area is almost exactly the same as 3x1.3 and you have a tighter fit. I would start out with the same oil you were using.

/G.
I think 1.6 1.1 Pistons increase the XB4's ability to handle larger jumps over 3 1.3. As Greger pointed out Schelle and Avids have less blow-by between the piston and shock housing. Being machined over molded the tolernces improve greatly for a cleaner fit.

I will see if I have a Schelle pamphlet. If so I will try to snap a readable pic. to post.

Have an excellent evening my friends.
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Old 04-21-2015, 01:57 PM   #8025
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I find that small changes in rear droop really help the landings too. Increasing droop even by a couple mm will help those hard landings.
RCGOD makes a good point in adjusting rear droop. I agree increasing droop a couple mm will definetly help with hard landings.
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