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Old 01-23-2015, 03:48 PM   #6601
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Originally Posted by jmackani View Post
If it is a non issue you will not see it which should back up what xray has stated because it is about the total measurement.
No its still an issue because if you join the imaginary lines where the rear wheels point to, the point is not on the centerline of the chassis. So all things being squared up, the car will not track straight (with zero front toe, front wheels parallel to chassis centerline).


/ \, these are the toed in rear wheels from top, joined up, the point should be center, its never gonna be.
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Old 01-23-2015, 03:50 PM   #6602
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duplicate post
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Old 01-23-2015, 03:56 PM   #6603
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No its still an issue because if you join the imaginary lines where the rear wheels point to, the point is not on the centerline of the chassis. So all things being squared up, the car will not track straight (with zero front toe, front wheels parallel to chassis centerline).


/ \, these are the toed in rear wheels from top, joined up, the point should be center, its never gonna be.
If the total angle at the hubs is the same it will track straight.
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Old 01-23-2015, 04:05 PM   #6604
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If the total angle at the hubs is the same it will track straight.
Nah not total, if you got 3 degrees from chassis center on each wheel only then it will track straight. The hudy can only measure the sum of total toe (then we assume its symmetric on both wheels), it cannot individually measure the toe (w.r.t. center) at each wheel like a real car alignment shop.

So here people got say 2.5 left side and 3.5 right, the car will tend to pull left always.
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Old 01-23-2015, 04:21 PM   #6605
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Originally Posted by aloksatoor View Post
Nah not total, if you got 3 degrees from chassis center on each wheel only then it will track straight. The hudy can only measure the sum of total toe (then we assume its symmetric on both wheels), it cannot individually measure the toe (w.r.t. center) at each wheel like a real car alignment shop.

So here people got say 2.5 left side and 3.5 right, the car will tend to pull left always.
No, you do not have to assume it's symmetric with the hudy. It does measure each wheel independently. You have to slide the toe gauge to read each wheel independently. The hudy can show 2.5 on left and 3.5 on right if you want that with hinge pin holder adjustments.
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Old 01-23-2015, 04:37 PM   #6606
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Originally Posted by jmackani View Post
No, you do not have to assume it's symmetric with the hudy. It does measure each wheel independently. You have to slide the toe gauge to read each wheel independently. The hudy can show 2.5 on left and 3.5 on right if you want that with hinge pin holder adjustments.
I will try to describe the point aloksatoor is trying to make in a different way by making an extreme example:

Imagine that you were able to rotate the rear gear box a quarter of a turn, 90 degrees horizontally on the chassis and mount it that way. The rear wheel pair will point completely sideways to the normal direction of travel. Now imagine you would be able to put the setup station on this. It will give you measurements in degrees for your rear wheels that are the same as when you had it mounted the correct way. The setup station measures against the common centerline of the wheels but has no way of telling you that that center line is not aligned with the center line of the vehicle, in this case as much as 90 degrees off, but just looking at the setup station it will give you the same number.

Hope this helps...

For the record, a setup station is a great tool, not knocking that. I use it frequently, but as with all tools there are some things it doesn't apply to.
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Old 01-23-2015, 04:43 PM   #6607
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I will try to describe the point aloksatoor is trying to make in a different way by making an extreme example:

Imagine that you were able to rotate the rear gear box a quarter of a turn, 90 degrees horizontally on the chassis and mount it that way. The rear wheel pair will point completely sideways to the normal direction of travel. Now imagine you would be able to put the setup station on this. It will give you measurements in degrees for your rear wheels that are the same as when you had it mounted the correct way. The setup station measures against the common centerline of the wheels but has no way of telling you that that center line is not aligned with the center line of the vehicle, in this case as much as 90 degrees off, but just looking at the setup station it will give you the same number.

Hope this helps...

For the record, a setup station is a great tool, not knocking that I use it frequently, but as with all tools there are some things it doesn't apply to.
Ahhh, now I see.
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Old 01-23-2015, 05:37 PM   #6608
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Old 01-23-2015, 05:55 PM   #6609
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so with all that said, is it right or wrong. Because with xray saying there is no issue I will call amain and get a full refund on my car. ive spent way to much money for amain to say no if xray wont stepup and fix the issue. shtt they wont even admit there is a issue it seems like... sorry to ask such a dump question but with all this technical talk i got lost on if it is suppose to be like it is or is the molds wrong..
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Old 01-23-2015, 06:14 PM   #6610
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so with all that said, is it right or wrong. Because with xray saying there is no issue I will call amain and get a full refund on my car. ive spent way to much money for amain to say no if xray wont stepup and fix the issue. shtt they wont even admit there is a issue it seems like... sorry to ask such a dump question but with all this technical talk i got lost on if it is suppose to be like it is or is the molds wrong..
I have no doubt that it is wrong. Perhaps if everybody starts requesting refunds they will be forced to acknowledge it. Not sure how far that will go with the LHS I got mine from though.....but at least maybe they can contact Xray about it.
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Old 01-23-2015, 06:15 PM   #6611
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So the rear end is 0.25mm off the centerline.

I still have no answer for Kevinís issue and I canít even replicate it on my car. Itís either a manufacturing issue with Kevinís kit or Kevinís build skills (which it doesnít sound like it, with his past experience in building cars).


Whatís confusing is that some are saying that there toe-in is out, left to right. Then thatís a problem. I donít feel that this 0.25mm of center is a real big issue if the toe-in is equal on both sides. Unless someone is willing to do the calculation and tell us that the rear bulkhead doesnít sit straight on the chassis either.


Has anyone measured from the centerline to the wheel hub? One arm could be longer then the other??? Just like us humans. lol
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Old 01-23-2015, 06:54 PM   #6612
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So the rear end is 0.25mm off the centerline.

I still have no answer for Kevin’s issue and I can’t even replicate it on my car. It’s either a manufacturing issue with Kevin’s kit or Kevin’s build skills (which it doesn’t sound like it, with his past experience in building cars).


What’s confusing is that some are saying that there toe-in is out, left to right. Then that’s a problem. I don’t feel that this 0.25mm of center is a real big issue if the toe-in is equal on both sides. Unless someone is willing to do the calculation and tell us that the rear bulkhead doesn’t sit straight on the chassis either.


Has anyone measured from the centerline to the wheel hub? One arm could be longer then the other??? Just like us humans. lol
The rear end is not off center, but I wouldn't even care if it was .25 off center if the arms were symmetrical, I never would have even noticed that. RC god has precise measurements showing one full degree of difference between the two arms(in relation to the center line), with all the same inserts, and everything I see on my car backs that up. If you saw my car in front of you with the straight edge across the brace it would be obvious there is a problem, just look at the pictures. I had to mis-match rear inserts in order to make the toe equal on both sides.

Some of these theories are really grasping at straws trying to say Xray is right IMO. Should a car of this caliber be built and designed with a gearbox that sits crooked, or off center, and all other parts are different measurements on each side to compensate? Wouldn't the front brace not be symmetrical either? If the arms were different would it have a left and right dogbone of different lengths as well, if the angles were made up with hub angle wouldn't we have a left and right hub? The only reason we have a left and right arm is because of the sweep and the gullwing design, it would make absolutely no sense to complicate things by needlessly designing the car to require different length arms.

What I'm seeing is that everything IS on center, but the rear brace has the insert farther out on the right(or perhaps the left is not far enough). Take any one of your cars and mismatch the rear inserts, that's what we have when we use all the same inserts. Maybe the new gearbox doesn't require the asymmetrical brace anymore but it got lost in translation, I don't know, but what I have is definitely not right, and I don't mean overly picky spitting hairs not right, I mean painfully obvious something is wrong here not right.
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Old 01-23-2015, 07:26 PM   #6613
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My issue is no team drivers have stepped up or anyone else from xray to give us a real answer on this. to not saying anything is a sign that something may be wrong....
There is at least one team driver in the midst of getting measurements and looking into the issue. He was told from Xray the same thing posted here earlier but he still wants to confirm that. He already contacted me, I'll let him chime in with his findings If he would like later, one thing everyone has to realize a fix isn't gonna happen overnight.
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Old 01-23-2015, 09:27 PM   #6614
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I can say that 3.5 toe with a shorty pack works extremely well on a clay track. I'm just going to leave my car with 3.5 toe until there is a fix. Also tried 500k in the center diff up from 100k. It may not be for everybody but you can drive the car a lot more agresive with 500k.
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Old 01-23-2015, 09:42 PM   #6615
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I took all the shocks off and trace the chassis and the rear suspension arms on the paper. The off set blocks (.5 sideway & 0) give even toe on both sides.
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