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Old 01-23-2015, 12:18 PM   #6586
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Originally Posted by jmcelroy42 View Post
I have a '14 car, the screw holes in the mounts are .020" different to the hinge pin inserts holes, like you guys are seeing on the '15. However I measured the angle between the flat surface of the RR block to the flattest part of the a arm with the same insets on both sides and the angles of the arms are the same! Looks to me like Xray knows what they're doing and your toe angles are still correct even though the mounting of the plate is asymmetrical to the insert holes.
Thanks for the input. But when some of us measure, the angles are clearly different on the '15.
The gearbox itself on the '15 is new I believe..... If the '14 brace had the asymmetrical plate and the new one mimics it, maybe it is something about the new gearbox..........it looks like RCgod has access to some good measuring equipment, I'd like to hear his explanation of that print out sheet.

jmcelroy42, are the mounting screw holes on the back of the gearbox equal distances in from the edges of the gearbox? And does the gearbox appear to be mounted in the center of the chassis tab?
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Old 01-23-2015, 12:31 PM   #6587
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The printout shows the actual inner hinge pin angles in relation to the centerline of the chassis. According to xray these should be 3 degrees per side with the 0 inserts. As you can see they are 2.5 and 3.5
There are 2 holes in the bottom of the chassis which I used to create the alignment. I leveled the alignment on the bottom of the chassis. Our CMM is repeatable within .0002" of an inch. I've been programming cmms for 20 years. Trust me when I say the rear hinge pins are off. Xray can say whatever they want. When assembled the rear suspension isn't right. But somehow the right response of "sorry we made a mistake, we will take care of all of our customers" changed to some crap about legendary attention to detail. Probably about the time they calculated how much money it would cost to make it right.
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Old 01-23-2015, 12:45 PM   #6588
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The printout shows the actual inner hinge pin angles in relation to the centerline of the chassis. According to xray these should be 3 degrees per side with the 0 inserts. As you can see they are 2.5 and 3.5
There are 2 holes in the bottom of the chassis which I used to create the alignment. I leveled the alignment on the bottom of the chassis. Our CMM is repeatable within .0002" of an inch. I've been programming cmms for 20 years. Trust me when I say the rear hinge pins are off. Xray can say whatever they want. When assembled the rear suspension isn't right. But somehow the right response of "sorry we made a mistake, we will take care of all of our customers" changed to some crap about legendary attention to detail. Probably about the time they calculated how much money it would cost to make it right.
Thank you, I just wanted to make sure I was reading it correctly, and also give you an opportunity to generate some credibility with those that are quick to believe that everything is fine. I have an email out to try and confirm that the statement actually did come from Xray also, you never know.....
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Old 01-23-2015, 12:54 PM   #6589
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Originally Posted by rcgod View Post
The printout shows the actual inner hinge pin angles in relation to the centerline of the chassis. According to xray these should be 3 degrees per side with the 0 inserts. As you can see they are 2.5 and 3.5
There are 2 holes in the bottom of the chassis which I used to create the alignment. I leveled the alignment on the bottom of the chassis. Our CMM is repeatable within .0002" of an inch. I've been programming cmms for 20 years. Trust me when I say the rear hinge pins are off. Xray can say whatever they want. When assembled the rear suspension isn't right. But somehow the right response of "sorry we made a mistake, we will take care of all of our customers" changed to some crap about legendary attention to detail. Probably about the time they calculated how much money it would cost to make it right.
Can you set that up to take the measurements at the axles instead which is really where your total overall toe is going to have effect?
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Old 01-23-2015, 12:55 PM   #6590
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I believe the response is real. This is the email response I received directly from XRAY.

Thank you for your email and your interest in XRAY products. The alu suspension blocks have asymmetrical holes made on purpose to offset the small differences in the composite bulkhead after they cool down after moulding. As such, the suspension blocks are all correct and after assembly everything is correct.

When composite parts are assembled with others parts using screws, they tend to bend in the direction of the screws. XRAY's legendary attention to the detail in this case ensures that all composite parts are measured after assembly and the tolerances of the moulds are adjusted to offset this kind of effect to ensure the geometry is correct.

If we can help you in any other way, please let us know. We will be more than happy to assist you or help you out.


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Old 01-23-2015, 01:00 PM   #6591
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This is the email I received from Xray last night:

Dear Kevin,

Thank you for your email and your interest in XRAY products. The alu suspension blocks have asymmetrical holes made on purpose to offset the small differences in the composite bulkhead after they cool down after moulding. As such, the suspension blocks are all correct and after assembly everything is correct.

When composite parts are assembled with others parts using screws, they tend to bend in the direction of the screws. XRAY's legendary attention to the detail in this case ensures that all composite parts are measured after assembly and the tolerances of the moulds are adjusted to offset this kind of effect to ensure the geometry is correct.

If we can help you in any other way, please let us know. We will be more than happy to assist you or help you out.


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Old 01-23-2015, 01:18 PM   #6592
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Originally Posted by jmackani View Post
Can you set that up to take the measurements at the axles instead which is really where your total overall toe is going to have effect?
I would imagine measuring at the inner hinge pins would give the most accurate results no? When you measure at axles you will run into a little bit of play in the suspension. Given zero play, measuring at the axles should in theory give the same result.
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Old 01-23-2015, 01:20 PM   #6593
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Can you set that up to take the measurements at the axles instead which is really where your total overall toe is going to have effect?
Yes but because the surface area of the ouside flat on the hex is so small it will not be very accurate. Same goes for checking the axle stubs. Probably the most accurate would be checking the angle of the outer hinge pin locations in relation to the chassis cl. I'll do that tonight and also give the location of the axles in relation to the farthest rearward balance hole on the chassis to show how much different the wheelbase is on each side.
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Old 01-23-2015, 01:29 PM   #6594
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Originally Posted by slakr View Post
ASC91493
I got these and they are way thin, like I mean I could fit 3 of them in there with the spacer. Are you sure this is the part # that Tektronix was using?
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Old 01-23-2015, 01:35 PM   #6595
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Originally Posted by rcgod View Post
The printout shows the actual inner hinge pin angles in relation to the centerline of the chassis. According to xray these should be 3 degrees per side with the 0 inserts. As you can see they are 2.5 and 3.5
There are 2 holes in the bottom of the chassis which I used to create the alignment. I leveled the alignment on the bottom of the chassis. Our CMM is repeatable within .0002" of an inch. I've been programming cmms for 20 years. Trust me when I say the rear hinge pins are off. Xray can say whatever they want. When assembled the rear suspension isn't right. But somehow the right response of "sorry we made a mistake, we will take care of all of our customers" changed to some crap about legendary attention to detail. Probably about the time they calculated how much money it would cost to make it right.

Haha, lol'd at this. Somewhere in Slovakia there's an actuary nodding his head.
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Old 01-23-2015, 02:53 PM   #6596
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Originally Posted by littleZEN View Post
I would imagine measuring at the inner hinge pins would give the most accurate results no? When you measure at axles you will run into a little bit of play in the suspension. Given zero play, measuring at the axles should in theory give the same result.
Quite a few vehicles use the composition of inner pins plus the outer hub angles to get the total rear toe in angles. Ironically I have noticed on my set up station that most vehicles are about .5 degree difference between sides. I honestly never checked this on my xray. Mine is a 14 and I am going to see if that differences I normally see on my other non Xray cars are there. I do have the hudy setup station.
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Old 01-23-2015, 03:24 PM   #6597
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My issue is no team drivers have stepped up or anyone else from xray to give us a real answer on this. to not saying anything is a sign that something may be wrong....
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Old 01-23-2015, 03:28 PM   #6598
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Originally Posted by jmackani View Post
Quite a few vehicles use the composition of inner pins plus the outer hub angles to get the total rear toe in angles. Ironically I have noticed on my set up station that most vehicles are about .5 degree difference between sides. I honestly never checked this on my xray. Mine is a 14 and I am going to see if that differences I normally see on my other non Xray cars are there. I do have the hudy setup station.
Like I posted earlier, you won't see the problem with a setup station.
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Old 01-23-2015, 03:36 PM   #6599
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no, alok. that guy is a legit xray employee as that is the same thing they said to kevin in an email.
dang thats crazy then, did not expect that response!! i have no words.
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Old 01-23-2015, 03:38 PM   #6600
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Like I posted earlier, you won't see the problem with a setup station.
If it is a non issue you will not see it which should back up what xray has stated because it is about the total measurement.
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