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Old 01-12-2015, 02:40 PM   #6376
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Here are the same pics with both sets of rear hinge pin 0 deg. inserts, which is the center hole in each. Notice how the right side of the chassis is still off the ground a bit. If I readjusted my camber to compensate for the change it might have let it go a touch more, but you see what I'm getting at. Personally I would like to have the option to get a little more travel beyond the chassis bottoming, especially for rough tracks.

I really don't think I'm just crazy, there seems to be an issue here.
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Xray XB4 thread-sam_0573.jpg   Xray XB4 thread-sam_0574.jpg   Xray XB4 thread-sam_0575.jpg  
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Old 01-12-2015, 03:34 PM   #6377
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Originally Posted by kevinpratt823 View Post
Here are the same pics with both sets of rear hinge pin 0 deg. inserts, which is the center hole in each. Notice how the right side of the chassis is still off the ground a bit. If I readjusted my camber to compensate for the change it might have let it go a touch more, but you see what I'm getting at. Personally I would like to have the option to get a little more travel beyond the chassis bottoming, especially for rough tracks.

I really don't think I'm just crazy, there seems to be an issue here.
I'd bet that the issue is with the hinge pin of your rear hubs are mounted using the wrong hole. Check your hubs and make sure the hinge pin is using the inside hole on the hub and the outside hole of the rear arm.
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Old 01-12-2015, 03:44 PM   #6378
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Originally Posted by WagwanBumba View Post
Hey guys ... got a few kinks with my XB4'14

I've changed the diff bevel gears to steel versions. It's great being able to drive around without having to worry as much about slipper settings or shimming everything to perfection.

But ... here's a couple of things. One of the pins in my CVDs went through the plastic cup that tries to hold everything together. Is this a known problem and should I buy the aluminium ones from Exotek?
Also, front and rear diff carrier bulkheads are a bit loose now, so I can wiggle the diff outdrives around a bit. I think I read something about this - has Xray fixed the plastics for this now?

Love my XB4. It's a different animal from the D413. D413 is brute force, ebuggy style! XB4 has a bit more finesse to driving it.
The alu drive cups are all great, but the reason for this happening in most cases is that the CVD isn't lubricated enough. If you don't see to this, eventually even alu won't help you, I have seen pins coming through alu cups as well....

The bulkheads have been updated to improve the fit of the differential. I even saw improvements to the '15 kit we have, but the part no is the same so it must be a running change.....
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Old 01-12-2015, 03:46 PM   #6379
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I'd bet that the issue is with the hinge pin of your rear hubs are mounted using the wrong hole. Check your hubs and make sure the hinge pin is using the inside hole on the hub and the outside hole of the rear arm.
I was actually just about to post some of the obvious stuff I have double checked. Outer pins are correct, bot shafts say 68mm, axles are obviously correct. FWIW I don't think it would be possible to do the outer pins in a way that would bring the hubs in anyway, the arm would stop them. I was already familiar with this dual hole option from my Tekno cars so that was a no-brainer.
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Xray XB4 thread-sam_0577.jpg   Xray XB4 thread-sam_0578.jpg  
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Old 01-12-2015, 03:53 PM   #6380
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Originally Posted by HeavyD99 View Post
I'd bet that the issue is with the hinge pin of your rear hubs are mounted using the wrong hole. Check your hubs and make sure the hinge pin is using the inside hole on the hub and the outside hole of the rear arm.
Wait what, is that a typo? inside on the hub and outside on the arm is not the way the instructions, setup sheet, or even the cover of the manual show it. You either use the outside on both or the inside on both, it just changes the pivot point location. I actually just checked and it even specifically says inside with inside or outside with outside. Both holes are supposed to line up with eachother regardless, it's just a matter of which set you choose to put the pin through.........
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Old 01-12-2015, 04:07 PM   #6381
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Originally Posted by kevinpratt823 View Post
Here are the same pics with both sets of rear hinge pin 0 deg. inserts, which is the center hole in each. Notice how the right side of the chassis is still off the ground a bit. If I readjusted my camber to compensate for the change it might have let it go a touch more, but you see what I'm getting at. Personally I would like to have the option to get a little more travel beyond the chassis bottoming, especially for rough tracks.

I really don't think I'm just crazy, there seems to be an issue here.
Did you try with the shocks mounted and Not mounted?

Personally, I feel you have too much up travel. Your axles will be hitting your outdrives. You pic shows both outdrives vertical, which gives more travel, but wont ever happen on the track.
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Old 01-12-2015, 04:10 PM   #6382
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Originally Posted by kevinpratt823 View Post
Wait what, is that a typo? inside on the hub and outside on the arm is not the way the instructions, setup sheet, or even the cover of the manual show it. You either use the outside on both or the inside on both, it just changes the pivot point location. I actually just checked and it even specifically says inside with inside or outside with outside. Both holes are supposed to line up with eachother regardless, it's just a matter of which set you choose to put the pin through.........
You are correct your images show it mounted correctly. The description in the manual is correct.

I must say that your problem looks really strange, we just came from the DHI cup in Denmark and a lot of the team guys were using that hinge pin setting. I don't have our car at hand now, but I sure will check it out tomorrow.

Almost looks like your drive shafts are just too long, even though they are marked correctly.
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Old 01-12-2015, 04:11 PM   #6383
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Originally Posted by HeavyD99 View Post
I'd bet that the issue is with the hinge pin of your rear hubs are mounted using the wrong hole. Check your hubs and make sure the hinge pin is using the inside hole on the hub and the outside hole of the rear arm.
I don't think the axles would reach into the outdrives enough for a outside/inside mount.

Would be interesting to try though.
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Old 01-12-2015, 04:27 PM   #6384
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>>>Ya, my bad. I just checked my 2013 and the hubs/arms are as you guys say - outside & outside, like the manual says.

Shocks or no shocks, my bones don't hit the diff outdirves like that.

Kevin - are you running the 68mm rear bones?
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Old 01-12-2015, 05:17 PM   #6385
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Originally Posted by kevinpratt823 View Post
So I noticed today, when I have both sets of rear hinge pin inserts with #1 in the lower inner positions, with the dogbone pin in the rear outdrive verticle, it severely limits the suspension travel of the arm because the pin is bottoming out in the slot of the outdrive. I mean to the point that the chassis will barely reach the ground, and it's worse on one side than the other. Can some of you guys try this with your cars if you have the inserts this way. Compress the rear suspension fully and rotate the wheel, do you see the arm being forced back down when the pin goes vertical? I moved the inserts to put the holes in the outer positions and it went away almost completely, but that's not the point. Thanks.
When building my car I noticed this too, but not as much as yours. Are you using the 68mm rear dogbone? So I built my car up using 1/bottom/center. It also will depend on how much chamber you are using. I can understand if you use these inner setting for racing on a carpet or very flat track you may not have an issue, but on a bumpy dirt and with arm flex the dogbones will touch the out drive cups sometimes (big crashes).



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http://www.teamxray.com/xb4/download...et_CLAY_v2.pdf V2 clay sheet (don't know how differs from V1) has shock position in outer hole on a-arm.
You have in your photos in inside hole.
This affects shock lenght and where the collar setting has to be.
There has actually been 3 versions.
First I question them on the electronic layout on the clay setup. It was saddle configuration and the setup sheet said to mount the servo on the right side of the chassis. (V2)
Two days later I questioned them on it saying not to use the topdecks (front or rear). The reply from Xray was
"Please, note that when using the composite chassis braces #361291 Composite Chassis Brace – Front and #361292 Composite Chassis Brace – Rear, which eliminate the chassis flex and thus eliminate the risk bending the chassis or drive shafts, it is not necessary to use upper decks. Therefore the set-up sheet is ok."

So I replied back. "So how do I secure the front of the body to the chassis?"

Xray reply - "We discussed this issue with our boss Juraj Hudy directly. Based on his suggestions the basic set-up will be changed and both top decks will be used." (should have been a called V3)
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Old 01-12-2015, 06:12 PM   #6386
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Originally Posted by MaricopaAgent View Post
Did you try with the shocks mounted and Not mounted?

Personally, I feel you have too much up travel. Your axles will be hitting your outdrives. You pic shows both outdrives vertical, which gives more travel, but wont ever happen on the track.
I don't think I understand what you are saying, or perhaps you're not grasping my problem. Regardless of the travel my shocks would allow, the dogbones bottoming out will not even let my chassis hit the ground. With the inserts on the inner position, the chassis barely gets within 6-7mm of the ground. I know that typically the drives would have more travel when vertical because usually it's the rim of the cup that limits it, but in this case the pin angles into the notch and bottoms out into the outdrive well before the chassis would even reach the ground.

For example, here are the two pics, with the SAME setup with insets on inner positions, and no springs on the car. Look at the pics closely and notice that the pic with the chassis off the ground is with the outdrives vertical, the picture where it almost hits the ground is the SAME SETUP, with the outdrives horizontal, chassis making it all the way down to the ground, still not quite hitting the inner edge of the drive cups though. All I did was take the first pic, rotate the wheels 90 deg., then take the other pic. If I could get the travel shown in the second pic for a full revolution of the wheels I would not be having this conversation.

Typically, with the correct length dogbones, yes vertical would allow more travel, but clearly in this case it doesn't. The top of the pin leans in, bottoms out in the notch, and the dogbone becomes a crutch, propping up the whole assembly. Maybe I will have to post a video for some of you to believe it. FWIW I had some very well established racers who have run Xray for a while looking at it yesterday
and when they felt it in their hands they were baffled by it.

And yes guys, I am using the 68mm shafts.
Attached Thumbnails
Xray XB4 thread-sam_0570.jpg   Xray XB4 thread-sam_0571.jpg  
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Last edited by kevinpratt823; 01-12-2015 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 01-12-2015, 06:21 PM   #6387
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The alu drive cups are all great, but the reason for this happening in most cases is that the CVD isn't lubricated enough. If you don't see to this, eventually even alu won't help you, I have seen pins coming through alu cups as well....

The bulkheads have been updated to improve the fit of the differential. I even saw improvements to the '15 kit we have, but the part no is the same so it must be a running change.....
Thanks GregerL - yeah I did notice that the CVD joint was dry. I use SpecR joint lube on the joints but must have flung off or get washed off. Will pay more notice!
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Old 01-12-2015, 06:29 PM   #6388
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Maybe one of the drive cups is not machined right? Have you tried putting the front diff in the rear?
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Old 01-12-2015, 06:36 PM   #6389
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That'd be my next guess - are those rear dog bones really 68mm? Have you measured them? They may have been mis-printed?

There has got to be an answer to this!
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Old 01-12-2015, 07:03 PM   #6390
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Maybe it's my imagination but those wheels he has on the car look really big. They don't look like buggy rims.
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