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Old 10-07-2014, 10:09 AM   #5656
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I am sure you will be able to upgrade....But will you want to? The center diff will most likely require a new chassis and top plate. Maybe even new bones. Plus the cost of the center diff. If it has a shorty conversion, then even more will change. Are you willing to spend 200-300 to update your car? I am just spit balling here, but based on what AE had to do to make the gear diff work, I would venture to say it will be similar.
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:10 AM   #5657
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Any confirmation yet on if it is a whole new platform or if the 14 will be able to be upgraded with new parts?
Nothing confirmed yet.

We are heading to the Xray factory in just over a week for some practice ahead of round #1 of the Euro Offroad Series in Poznan, Poland

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Old 10-07-2014, 10:15 AM   #5658
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@BentKa what you say about the composite gear diff may be true. But, your missing a very important point. Performance and durability aside. Many drivers want steel gears. IMO, xray should make them and sell them as an option part. I am sure they would fly off the shelves. The whole shorty thing is taking 4wd by storm. I seriously hope the 2015 has this and is not held aside for the 2016 car. I highly doubt that you will bundle every option into the box like Incubus wants, because the costs would be prohibitive. I actually like the AE B5 model. Get the basic car and buy the upgrades you want. The base car is cheap and you go up from there. From a business perspective, I dont see how you can ignore what the customer wants. They "want" metal gears. Just give them metal gears. They obviously dont care about the inertia. I actually love the heavy feel of steel gears. Makes a 6.5 easier to drive and feels smoother.
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:34 AM   #5659
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+1 on give the people what they want (metal gears, center diff, shorty option).
Feel the same way about the 22-4 and gear versus ball diffs.
But that's just my opinion (and obviously others as well).
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:45 AM   #5660
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I am sure you will be able to upgrade....But will you want to? The center diff will most likely require a new chassis and top plate. Maybe even new bones. Plus the cost of the center diff. If it has a shorty conversion, then even more will change. Are you willing to spend 200-300 to update your car? I am just spit balling here, but based on what AE had to do to make the gear diff work, I would venture to say it will be similar.
Quick math based on A Main prices for 2014 replacement parts:
New 2mm aluminum chassis - $65
New plastic shorty chassis - $55
New 68mm rear centre CVD bone - $25 (based on photos, I did a quick measurement, it was close to the same length as a standard rear CVD bone)
New centre gear diff - $65
New carbon fibre top deck - $35

Honestly, if the new centre diff only needs two holes drilled, I'll take my chances and drill them myself. The rest will be needed new. So you can ball park it around $125US for the centre diff upgrade, $180US if there is a shorty plastic chassis needed to got with it.
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:48 AM   #5661
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@BentKa what you say about the composite gear diff may be true. But, your missing a very important point. Performance and durability aside. Many drivers want steel gears. IMO, xray should make them and sell them as an option part. I am sure they would fly off the shelves. The whole shorty thing is taking 4wd by storm. I seriously hope the 2015 has this and is not held aside for the 2016 car. I highly doubt that you will bundle every option into the box like Incubus wants, because the costs would be prohibitive. I actually like the AE B5 model. Get the basic car and buy the upgrades you want. The base car is cheap and you go up from there. From a business perspective, I dont see how you can ignore what the customer wants. They "want" metal gears. Just give them metal gears. They obviously dont care about the inertia. I actually love the heavy feel of steel gears. Makes a 6.5 easier to drive and feels smoother.
Steel gears are coming……don't worry

They have been delayed and delayed in production but are soon to be released to the public.



All Xray's are race ready out of the box.

Part of the philosophy is to provide the parts used by the Factory Team out of the box and let the customers race the same vehicles fully capable of winning major races out of the box.

Additional parts are considered tuning parts.

Since all parts are tested over and over again by the Factory Team a lot of parts actually never make it to production as they prove to have no real benefit or performance gain.

A nice thing about Xray and a big part of why we chose Xray as a sponsor is their dedication to make race winning vehicles, not just "the latest flashy trendy parts"

But yes as I stated the metal diff gears are a nice tuning option and they are coming.

The full release of the '15 model is not far off now but in typical Xray tradition it will not be released until it is actually ready

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Old 10-07-2014, 11:00 AM   #5662
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I am certain, if the 2015 does not have a shorty conversion, the 2016 will for sure. I know people that have converted their cars and love it. Shorties today have plenty of capacity for 4wd racing demands. 2-3 years ago, probably not. But with roars new rules allowing the conversions, xray would be silly to not go with it. It would be a tuning option and from what I have seen...a good one.
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:25 AM   #5663
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I am certain, if the 2015 does not have a shorty conversion, the 2016 will for sure. I know people that have converted their cars and love it. Shorties today have plenty of capacity for 4wd racing demands. 2-3 years ago, probably not. But with roars new rules allowing the conversions, xray would be silly to not go with it. It would be a tuning option and from what I have seen...a good one.
On certain tracks you will want to run a saddle pack for the added weight and then again on other tracks you want the added agility, lower weight and altered weight distribution of a shorty pack.

But it's a bit of a personal preference really as another tuning option and not the "game changer" that some is hyping it up to be

Same with the center diff

All your questions will "soon enough" be answered though

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Old 10-07-2014, 11:30 AM   #5664
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I agree it is a tuning option. My point was, it is a tuning option people want. Same with the center diff. Neither will take you from the C main to the amain I have owned cars with center slippers and I much prefer a center diff. It just feels so much better in the corners to me.
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:43 AM   #5665
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I agree it is a tuning option. My point was, it is a tuning option people want. Same with the center diff. Neither will take you from the C main to the amain I have owned cars with center slippers and I much prefer a center diff. It just feels so much better in the corners to me.
I'm not disagreeing with you

Malin has run her center diff almost without exception now for the last few months.

She prefers it as it resembles the feel from her XB8.

I'm just saying people are hyping it up to be the "ultimate game changer".

Depending on driving style you will probably feel it is easier to drive, but you will not necessarily be any quicker with it

It's still way too difficult to be really quick with a wheeler today with all the power these now have…….center diff or not

Bent
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:51 AM   #5666
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I'm not disagreeing with you

Malin has run her center diff almost without exception now for the last few months.

She prefers it as it resembles the feel from her XB8.

I'm just saying people are hyping it up to be the "ultimate game changer".

Depending on driving style you will probably feel it is easier to drive, but you will not necessarily be any quicker with it

It's still way too difficult to be really quick with a wheeler today with all the power these now have…….center diff or not

Bent
I had problems putting power down with an 8.5 in a b44.2. It was just too hard to drive. The d413 with gear diffs was very easy to drive with the 6.5. It is kinda hard to describe, but it definitely has a better "feel" to me. Is it a "game changer", probably not. But people constantly tell me that my car is making me look good, not the reverse, lol. There is a local guy that drives an xray 2014. He beats me sometimes, I beat him sometimes. But their are parts of the track, where the center diff is way better. We race on high bite clay and the center diff just turns hard and controlled.


Anyway, looking forward to the 2015 release notes. That might be my car next year.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:00 PM   #5667
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I had problems putting power down with an 8.5 in a b44.2. It was just too hard to drive. The d413 with gear diffs was very easy to drive with the 6.5. It is kinda hard to describe, but it definitely has a better "feel" to me. Is it a "game changer", probably not. But people constantly tell me that my car is making me look good, not the reverse, lol. There is a local guy that drives an xray 2014. He beats me sometimes, I beat him sometimes. But their are parts of the track, where the center diff is way better. We race on high bite clay and the center diff just turns hard and controlled.


Anyway, looking forward to the 2015 release notes. That might be my car next year.
Then I would say your setup on your B44.2 was all wrong Sorry

I've raced AE cars for years myself and they have been some of the best performing cars…..with the right setup.

We're able to swap back and forth from a slipper to the center diff in Malin's XB4 and can easily judge the difference.

The D413 has a lot more droop than many of its competitors and this added weight transfer back and forth does create a lot of extra traction going in and out of turns.

Same as we have run the XB4 with extra droop and 3000/2000 in the diffs (and a ton of other changes) on very low traction tracks = tons of grip compared to the XB4's next to her

A lot of the difference in the performance of todays wheelers are in the setups as they are not that different when you look at the geometry

With the basic setup from the manufacturer different cars will excel on different tracks depending on where and on what surface the cars have been tested and mostly run.

But yeah…..we're looking forward to the next evolution of the XB4

Bent
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Old 10-07-2014, 01:12 PM   #5668
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XB4 metal gear diffs..

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...oad-buggy.html

I hope..

The extra drag is already overcome by my lighter weight from the shorty..

As far as the slipper set right, it is backed off as much as it can be.. maybe 1/2 turn more then it hits the driveshaft collar . no way I will get three months from a set.
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Old 10-07-2014, 01:32 PM   #5669
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XB4 metal gear diffs..

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...oad-buggy.html

I hope..

The extra drag is already overcome by my lighter weight from the shorty..

As far as the slipper set right, it is backed off as much as it can be.. maybe 1/2 turn more then it hits the driveshaft collar . no way I will get three months from a set.
Drag in the drivetrain and just dead weight in the chassis will do two very different things with the buggy.

Metal gears are coming for the XB4……don't worry…..no need to put those parts on your Xb4

Do you have the '13 or '14 slipper ?

We've been thrashing on the XB4 with a center diff (no slipper at all) with 1.000.000 cst diff grease now for several months…….all plastic gears……..all gears are still fine….

Watch the video I posted…..high grip astro and spike tires…….center diff with no slipper…….brutal……but it holds up just fine

Bent
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Old 10-07-2014, 02:37 PM   #5670
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From your post it doesn't sound like you have much experience in manufacturing to be honest.

You already lost me when you compared manufacturing cost in Slovakia, Europe with China, Taiwan and Hong Kong :roll eyes:

What's the difference? The denomination used to submit payment? Cad softwares today are vastly accurate across the board and unless I've missed something, numerical input fed to a machine are implemented with a variance of about .0001" which is pretty accurate by any measure. I was heavily involved in Paintball for 20+ years and in that time I had the esteemed privilege to work with the two absolute best machinists/engineers in the industry (one of which is now making some of the highest quality components/systems in all of scale RC and the other a former engineer for McLaren international), and I learned enough to know all this lack of accuracy is total BS and just a marketing ploy.




There is a reason for why almost every American manufacturer is outsourcing to the far east.
COST !
I remember all to well when my my beloved Cannondale bicycles suddenly were "Assembled in America"

And of course the cost is higher when you actually pay for the R&D behind the parts and not just produce a knock-off part.
Ever heard of 3D scanners ?

Seen the Team C touring car or their new tool line !??!?!?!?!?!?

And if you actually are serious about there not being any significant difference to the accuracy of low budget and high end production equipment you are even more in-experienced then you make out to be.

So you're saying Hudy engineered the XB4 from scratch? If that's what you're saying it's you who needs to do their research.



20 years ago I worked in the quality control department of a manufacturer of parts for Volvo, Saab and Scania.
I spent all my working days measuring, weighing, analyzing, scanning color variations etc.
And whenever we got a new machine (mostly German made) the tolerances drastically improved and the number of parts that where out of tolerances where fewer and far between.
But at the same time as our manufacturing cost went down we also had to calculate the cost of the new machinery which obviously had to be paid through the parts manufactured.
And guess where our old machines were shipped when we replaced them ?

So the machines you used to have were used to market product as "top notch" until you got new machinery which then made parts Top TOP Notch. yeah, no. As with anything, machines wear out over time and repeatability and accuracy can begin to suffer and getting new machines simply puts you right back to where you were initially. Yes more modern machines will more than likely be more accurate due to new innovations, but it's not as dramatically drastic as many would lead you to believe.



For Xray they make almost everything in-house as one of the very few left in the business.

They have only done small things as heat treatment outside of the factory (but still in Slovakia), but they have recently added on to the factory and bought the machinery to do so in-house as well.

As a curiosity mr. Hudy himself have been racing,engineering and building race vehicles for decades.
As an example he already had pillow ball suspension on his race vehicles back in -86.


I suggest you either read up on the history and facts of a company before you try to slander them or just be polite enough to stay out of these threads

A good way of actually bringing some facts to the discussion would be to enter one of the races that are being held at the Hudy Racing Arena (one of the worlds best R/C facilities) and attend one of their factory guided tours

That way you can see it for yourself and actually appreciate the work and dedication behind the products

Bent
To all that info in bold… In Paintball a fellow by the name of Bob Long is the only American Manufacturer who engineers, designs, manufactures, assembles, and services all is products 1,000,000% in the U.S.A. and his Markers don't cost more than anyone else's just because of the fact NOTHING is outsourced. To boot, the precision of his Markers is such that he is able to do radical things no one else in the entire industry has the testicular fortitude to even debate in their heads, let alone attempt, and still, his products are competitively priced. On top of that they do in fact offer better performance that has been documented in hard numbers. And oh yeah, Bob Long also happens to be the Bill Russell of Paintball (he used to be the MJ until a fellow by the name of Oliver Lange came along - LOL)

Bottom Line, whether manufactured 100% in the U.S.A., Slovakia, Canada, Germany, or wherever, it doesn't automatically mean it should cost more. How you take issue with that is beyond me.
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