Class Proliferation
07-06-2012, 03:47 AM
#1
Class Proliferation
So I have been out of the hobby for several years, and am now getting back into it. I cannot believe the number of classes that there are now. No wonder Stadium Truck and 1/10 4wd are dead.
Lets break it down
1/10
2wd Buggy
4wd Buggy
2wd Electric Stadium Truck
2wd Nitro Stadium Truck???? not sure if it still exist
2wd SCT
4x4 SCT
1/8
Buggy
Truggy
E-Buggy
E-Truggy??? Starting out
Now within these classes (particularly 1/10) there are stock, super stock, box stock, mod, and open classes.
Why are there so many options. Its no wonder that club tracks are dying, they cant keep up. What happened to novice, stock and mod.
too many novices (i am being nice i mean hack bashers) show up and want to go as fast as possible and beat the crap out of everyone on the track and yell at turnmarshals when its there own fault for wrecking. True racers then get pissed and leave the track. Then the basers get angry because a few rules start getting enforced, or they burned up their electronics trying to hit the rafters off the table top.
Also you have people racing "stock" that boost and time there motors b/c they iether dont have the rule not to or the track doesnt check. If you do that crap, just race mod.
I also dont understand the box stock class, what happens if you buy a kit as a novice or the box stock tires are crap for the track. Thats what the novice class was for... new poeple. When they started running faster than the other novices or lap times similar to stock, they moved up to stock class.
Also why have an "open class" and a "mod class" arent these the same???
The point I am making is why even with all of these classes, is try and keep it simple with only having novice, stock, and mod within each class.
This will by default filter out the drivers from the non. the racers from the bashers. If someone enters mod class, and there lap times are that of novice, you ask that individual to race novice until his lap times improve, and then welcome him back to mod when they are better.
If the bashers dont like it, then they can run there car in the highschool parking lot, and let the racers stay on the track.
You will gain more racers and respect, than you will loose bashers. More importantly you could turn some bashers into racers. Because lets face it bashing is a huge part of our hobby and a lot of fun, but it doesnt have a place at organized races. It would be lke you racing your souped up roushe350 shebly gt mustang in a nascar race.
Lets break it down
1/10
2wd Buggy
4wd Buggy
2wd Electric Stadium Truck
2wd Nitro Stadium Truck???? not sure if it still exist
2wd SCT
4x4 SCT
1/8
Buggy
Truggy
E-Buggy
E-Truggy??? Starting out
Now within these classes (particularly 1/10) there are stock, super stock, box stock, mod, and open classes.
Why are there so many options. Its no wonder that club tracks are dying, they cant keep up. What happened to novice, stock and mod.
too many novices (i am being nice i mean hack bashers) show up and want to go as fast as possible and beat the crap out of everyone on the track and yell at turnmarshals when its there own fault for wrecking. True racers then get pissed and leave the track. Then the basers get angry because a few rules start getting enforced, or they burned up their electronics trying to hit the rafters off the table top.
Also you have people racing "stock" that boost and time there motors b/c they iether dont have the rule not to or the track doesnt check. If you do that crap, just race mod.
I also dont understand the box stock class, what happens if you buy a kit as a novice or the box stock tires are crap for the track. Thats what the novice class was for... new poeple. When they started running faster than the other novices or lap times similar to stock, they moved up to stock class.
Also why have an "open class" and a "mod class" arent these the same???
The point I am making is why even with all of these classes, is try and keep it simple with only having novice, stock, and mod within each class.
This will by default filter out the drivers from the non. the racers from the bashers. If someone enters mod class, and there lap times are that of novice, you ask that individual to race novice until his lap times improve, and then welcome him back to mod when they are better.
If the bashers dont like it, then they can run there car in the highschool parking lot, and let the racers stay on the track.
You will gain more racers and respect, than you will loose bashers. More importantly you could turn some bashers into racers. Because lets face it bashing is a huge part of our hobby and a lot of fun, but it doesnt have a place at organized races. It would be lke you racing your souped up roushe350 shebly gt mustang in a nascar race.
07-06-2012, 04:18 AM
#2
Yea I'm with you on this one...but I think the issues go back and predate brushless and LiPo. From what I have learned the OEM stock SCT class basically resurrected RC racing.
When I got back into RC I didn't look at the racing scene first and made the mistake of buying both my son and myself a 1/10 stadium trucks because 20 years ago it was the up and coming thing. The track I go to has less classes than you have listed but I still agree with you.
Personally I would love to run a 2wd buggy in stock and be done with it. My son could run in the(a) novice class. Now I haven't seen it listed as Open and Mod I've seen it listed as Open and Pro. Both of these are modified classes but "Pro" is for drivers with sponsorship and Open is for those of us paying for everything.
Now that I know the SCT are the popular class that is fine as I could afford to get my son and I a second pair of trucks...but I don't think my wife gets the joke.
Just wish I had known going in and I could have saved myself $600 or so.
When I got back into RC I didn't look at the racing scene first and made the mistake of buying both my son and myself a 1/10 stadium trucks because 20 years ago it was the up and coming thing. The track I go to has less classes than you have listed but I still agree with you.
Personally I would love to run a 2wd buggy in stock and be done with it. My son could run in the(a) novice class. Now I haven't seen it listed as Open and Mod I've seen it listed as Open and Pro. Both of these are modified classes but "Pro" is for drivers with sponsorship and Open is for those of us paying for everything.
Now that I know the SCT are the popular class that is fine as I could afford to get my son and I a second pair of trucks...but I don't think my wife gets the joke.
Just wish I had known going in and I could have saved myself $600 or so.
07-06-2012, 04:55 AM
#4
yes there is a difference thats why they are different classes. Novice and stock are/were generally then same, it was just the skill level of driver. Mod was any motor that was not "roar stock leagal" and a bigger batt if you wanted. stock also only refered to the motor, not the chassis/wheels/tires. I guess thats what we called spec racing, but that usually only applied to on-road.
The problem with run what you brung classes, is it that it almost forces people to buy motors they cant handle, and then break the rides. IDK why poeple are so opposed to class rules, it helps to seperate thaose that like to run slower classes IE stock or the old 19t class. But a RWYB class is also wait for it... Mod, so why not just race that.
I remember run what you brung, we called it an outlaw class and it was litterally anything R/C; electric, nitro 2wd/4wd and it was one race at end of day.
the biggest problem with RWYB is most show up with a 4x4 sct with an 1/8 3300 kv motor and 4s or more batt in it.
The problem with run what you brung classes, is it that it almost forces people to buy motors they cant handle, and then break the rides. IDK why poeple are so opposed to class rules, it helps to seperate thaose that like to run slower classes IE stock or the old 19t class. But a RWYB class is also wait for it... Mod, so why not just race that.
I remember run what you brung, we called it an outlaw class and it was litterally anything R/C; electric, nitro 2wd/4wd and it was one race at end of day.
the biggest problem with RWYB is most show up with a 4x4 sct with an 1/8 3300 kv motor and 4s or more batt in it.
07-06-2012, 05:07 AM
#5
For novice you could enter until you won the main 3 times or something like that at our track and then you moved up to stock or Mod.
07-06-2012, 05:19 AM
#6
Stock use to be 27T brushed
07-06-2012, 05:27 AM
#7
Stock and mod only seem to exist in 1/10th buggy, truck, and SCT. A holdover relic from the days when those classes were packed. Now it's used to seperate slower drivers from fast. Giving new racers time to grow in stock. I think it would be better to only have to buy 1 motor and have a B-main instead. Only tracks popular to 1/10th 2wd seem to still have a stock and mod. Everywhere else each class is open. Regular club days nitro and electric run together.
1/10
2wd Buggy
4wd Buggy On endangered species list
2wd Electric Stadium Truck Most run 2wd buggy now since this class is dieing, will soon be dead class.
2wd Nitro Stadium Truck???? not sure if it still exist Nope, gone,dead. this class only existed becasue it was faster than electric and could run longer than 4 min. Now lipo/brushless has turned the tables.
2wd SCT
4x4 SCT
1/8
Buggy
Truggy
E-Buggy
E-Truggy
2wd Buggy
4wd Buggy On endangered species list
2wd Electric Stadium Truck Most run 2wd buggy now since this class is dieing, will soon be dead class.
2wd Nitro Stadium Truck???? not sure if it still exist Nope, gone,dead. this class only existed becasue it was faster than electric and could run longer than 4 min. Now lipo/brushless has turned the tables.
2wd SCT
4x4 SCT
1/8
Buggy
Truggy
E-Buggy
E-Truggy
07-06-2012, 07:16 AM
#8
the problem with open motor is it puts poeple who are learning to drive on the track at the same time as those who already can. and even if it is purely accidental, the novices take out the leaders. This can easily be controlled with re-arranging of the heats, and then placing people with historicaly similar times together in the same heats week after week, but that requires constant monoriting by the race director.
I think lipo/brushless is what has turned the tables period. you can now run a larger faster vehicle for longer. I just wish that tracks would have classes for those of us that dont want to race, not 8 minutes of a series of controlled high speed crashes.
Rubbin' is NOT racin'
I also hope AE can come out with a good (updated) 2wd ST to compete with losi. open wheel takes much more finesse that SCT. SCT has a place in RC. It helped to resurrect the hobby, and I plan on getting a 22SCT when its released, but thats only b/c there are no ST.
I think lipo/brushless is what has turned the tables period. you can now run a larger faster vehicle for longer. I just wish that tracks would have classes for those of us that dont want to race, not 8 minutes of a series of controlled high speed crashes.
Rubbin' is NOT racin'
I also hope AE can come out with a good (updated) 2wd ST to compete with losi. open wheel takes much more finesse that SCT. SCT has a place in RC. It helped to resurrect the hobby, and I plan on getting a 22SCT when its released, but thats only b/c there are no ST.
07-06-2012, 08:01 AM
#9
Personally, I think everything should be mod. If you are slow, then that is what the lower mains are for. Keep things simple.
The reality is that the stock classes are just as fast as the mod class by in large. When I look at stock times, 75% of the time the winner would have probably been in the A main of the mod class so what is the point?
There should obviously be a class for true newbies/beginners, but once you can make it around the track a few times without being marshalled, they should throw you in the mod class and call it a day.
The current rules are just an irrelevant throw back to when electric technology sucked and there were real and legitimate differences between the classes, not too mention cost. Now anyone can buy and build a fast car, so money and cost containment isn't the issue. The only differentiator is skill. If you want a $5.00 trophy, practice more instead of creating some BS class rules so you can be in the A main because there are only 7 other racers.
I'd rather have 40 people all racing the same class than 4 or 5 different classes.
The reality is that the stock classes are just as fast as the mod class by in large. When I look at stock times, 75% of the time the winner would have probably been in the A main of the mod class so what is the point?
There should obviously be a class for true newbies/beginners, but once you can make it around the track a few times without being marshalled, they should throw you in the mod class and call it a day.
The current rules are just an irrelevant throw back to when electric technology sucked and there were real and legitimate differences between the classes, not too mention cost. Now anyone can buy and build a fast car, so money and cost containment isn't the issue. The only differentiator is skill. If you want a $5.00 trophy, practice more instead of creating some BS class rules so you can be in the A main because there are only 7 other racers.
I'd rather have 40 people all racing the same class than 4 or 5 different classes.
07-06-2012, 08:06 AM
#10
I'm more into onroad, but have been doing a little bit of offroad as well lately. I am not seeing anywhere near that many classes.
2wd buggy super stock (13.5 open esc) is normal here, I have heard some run mod but yet to see a class
2wd sc stock (17.5) is also normal, though many are asking for a super stock or mod class, yet can't seem to get the tracks to support it
4wd open sc (any motor/esc) not super popular but exists
I have yet to see any 4wd buggy classes, or 2wd stadium trucks as a class. if there is a novice class for 10th scale, it is usually a RWYB. 8th scale is nitro buggy, ebuggy, and nitro truggy, sometimes with amateur and pro versions.
I am confused though, that you are frustrated that there are too many classes, but then wanting to split up all the classes into 3 classes? Sorry, just not completely sure what your goal is. Maybe my experience is just very different too, but 3 10th scale classes (4 if you add novice), and 4-5 nitro (ama/pro buggy/ebuggy) seems to be plenty.
2wd buggy super stock (13.5 open esc) is normal here, I have heard some run mod but yet to see a class
2wd sc stock (17.5) is also normal, though many are asking for a super stock or mod class, yet can't seem to get the tracks to support it
4wd open sc (any motor/esc) not super popular but exists
I have yet to see any 4wd buggy classes, or 2wd stadium trucks as a class. if there is a novice class for 10th scale, it is usually a RWYB. 8th scale is nitro buggy, ebuggy, and nitro truggy, sometimes with amateur and pro versions.
I am confused though, that you are frustrated that there are too many classes, but then wanting to split up all the classes into 3 classes? Sorry, just not completely sure what your goal is. Maybe my experience is just very different too, but 3 10th scale classes (4 if you add novice), and 4-5 nitro (ama/pro buggy/ebuggy) seems to be plenty.
07-06-2012, 09:10 AM
#11
my point about the number of classes, is the disovlement of others, classes that the hobby was founded on. My point about breaking them up into different sub groups was the seperation of skill levels.
I can agree with the point of one "open class" and one for beginners, but it takes a strong race director and club to ensure that the novices get put in proper class, and that the qualifiers get set up properly to keep the fast with the fast and the slow with the slow. Its not about being in the A main, its about being in any main, not a DNS b/c some slow and or new guy took you out in the second qual
Yes, electronics have come a long way to even out the field as far as cost and thats awesome. I dont need a comm cutter, brush cutter, dyno, battery discharge tray, 2-3 motors to get me through a race day, or 7 batts (3 practice 4 race), not to metion a cra ton of solder and a damn good iron that could get hot in seconds. Not having all of this is awesome.
I guess I just get frustrated that bashers are getting catered to more than racers. I never thought 8 years ago I would like to race at an indoor offroad track, but with almost everything outdoors designed for 1/8 scale with 30-50 yard long straights and jumps that will make you orbit the moon before landing, I cant race my 1/10 stuff out there.
And before anyone says just get an 1/8'th scale. dont. They are cool, just not my style and too $$$ to upkeep. almost $80 for a set of tires. WOW
I can agree with the point of one "open class" and one for beginners, but it takes a strong race director and club to ensure that the novices get put in proper class, and that the qualifiers get set up properly to keep the fast with the fast and the slow with the slow. Its not about being in the A main, its about being in any main, not a DNS b/c some slow and or new guy took you out in the second qual
Yes, electronics have come a long way to even out the field as far as cost and thats awesome. I dont need a comm cutter, brush cutter, dyno, battery discharge tray, 2-3 motors to get me through a race day, or 7 batts (3 practice 4 race), not to metion a cra ton of solder and a damn good iron that could get hot in seconds. Not having all of this is awesome.
I guess I just get frustrated that bashers are getting catered to more than racers. I never thought 8 years ago I would like to race at an indoor offroad track, but with almost everything outdoors designed for 1/8 scale with 30-50 yard long straights and jumps that will make you orbit the moon before landing, I cant race my 1/10 stuff out there.
And before anyone says just get an 1/8'th scale. dont. They are cool, just not my style and too $$$ to upkeep. almost $80 for a set of tires. WOW
07-06-2012, 01:02 PM
#12
...
I guess I just get frustrated that bashers are getting catered to more than racers. I never thought 8 years ago I would like to race at an indoor offroad track, but with almost everything outdoors designed for 1/8 scale with 30-50 yard long straights and jumps that will make you orbit the moon before landing, I cant race my 1/10 stuff out there.
And before anyone says just get an 1/8'th scale. dont. They are cool, just not my style and too $$$ to upkeep. almost $80 for a set of tires. WOW
I guess I just get frustrated that bashers are getting catered to more than racers. I never thought 8 years ago I would like to race at an indoor offroad track, but with almost everything outdoors designed for 1/8 scale with 30-50 yard long straights and jumps that will make you orbit the moon before landing, I cant race my 1/10 stuff out there.
And before anyone says just get an 1/8'th scale. dont. They are cool, just not my style and too $$$ to upkeep. almost $80 for a set of tires. WOW
I'm going to defend the bashers here. Tracks are not cash machines. They need to do everything they can to bring in a steady supply of new customers. Nobody starts out at the expert level. Newbies are going to crash. Casual racers are not going to be that good either. I say, so what? If that's what it takes to keep the tracks open, then so be it. Bring em on. The best we can do is try to help them to get better, not pout and ridicule them.
07-06-2012, 07:05 PM
#13
my point about the number of classes, is the disovlement of others, classes that the hobby was founded on. My point about breaking them up into different sub groups was the seperation of skill levels.
I can agree with the point of one "open class" and one for beginners, but it takes a strong race director and club to ensure that the novices get put in proper class, and that the qualifiers get set up properly to keep the fast with the fast and the slow with the slow. Its not about being in the A main, its about being in any main, not a DNS b/c some slow and or new guy took you out in the second qual
Yes, electronics have come a long way to even out the field as far as cost and thats awesome. I dont need a comm cutter, brush cutter, dyno, battery discharge tray, 2-3 motors to get me through a race day, or 7 batts (3 practice 4 race), not to metion a cra ton of solder and a damn good iron that could get hot in seconds. Not having all of this is awesome.
I guess I just get frustrated that bashers are getting catered to more than racers. I never thought 8 years ago I would like to race at an indoor offroad track, but with almost everything outdoors designed for 1/8 scale with 30-50 yard long straights and jumps that will make you orbit the moon before landing, I cant race my 1/10 stuff out there.
And before anyone says just get an 1/8'th scale. dont. They are cool, just not my style and too $$$ to upkeep. almost $80 for a set of tires. WOW
I can agree with the point of one "open class" and one for beginners, but it takes a strong race director and club to ensure that the novices get put in proper class, and that the qualifiers get set up properly to keep the fast with the fast and the slow with the slow. Its not about being in the A main, its about being in any main, not a DNS b/c some slow and or new guy took you out in the second qual
Yes, electronics have come a long way to even out the field as far as cost and thats awesome. I dont need a comm cutter, brush cutter, dyno, battery discharge tray, 2-3 motors to get me through a race day, or 7 batts (3 practice 4 race), not to metion a cra ton of solder and a damn good iron that could get hot in seconds. Not having all of this is awesome.
I guess I just get frustrated that bashers are getting catered to more than racers. I never thought 8 years ago I would like to race at an indoor offroad track, but with almost everything outdoors designed for 1/8 scale with 30-50 yard long straights and jumps that will make you orbit the moon before landing, I cant race my 1/10 stuff out there.
And before anyone says just get an 1/8'th scale. dont. They are cool, just not my style and too $$$ to upkeep. almost $80 for a set of tires. WOW
And you just need to get to the big events to hang with the "racers". Sure the B and C mains will be bashers and airshow momo's but that's ok.
It's time to jump up man. I still race a 2wd buggy in the winter indoors, it's just like the one I had when I was in 3rd grade.
07-06-2012, 07:10 PM
#14
Usually the newer racers in my area are actually getting smart. Practicing on weekdays with thier basher Traxxas cars just long enough to bump into a racer and learn that 2wd SCT is a great place to start.
So the stock classes are pretty much obsolete. All the new racers start in 2wd SCT. A good, good thing.
So the stock classes are pretty much obsolete. All the new racers start in 2wd SCT. A good, good thing.
07-06-2012, 07:30 PM
#15
Most club level races will not have every class offered simply because then it would be 4 people in each class.
I raced for my first time on the 4th, I have been practicing for a while and jumped right in to Open 4x4 SC. It was a good time and I ended up taking 5th place in the A main (also the only main only 8 people showed for the class).
Here are all the classes that were run:
Novice (basically any other class can run in this, two wins bumps you up to the class you should be in. This was mostly younger kids and people who had not raced before)
Stadium Truck (gaining popularity now)
1/10 buggy 17.5
1/10 buggy 13.5
Open 2wd SC
Open 4wd SC
1/8 E buggy
I forget if it was 17.5 or 13.5 but 1/10 buggy was the only class to have a B main. This was the weekly Wednesday club races but they run more classes (including nitro) on the weekends with a larger turnout, I think it is every other weekend.
I feel like some of the guys in open 4x4 sc were driving over their head and there was a lot of taking out going on in both qualifiers and the main. I started qualifying in 7th and had to work my way through the pack but every time I would pull a clean pass on someone they would just pin it and push me off the track and keep on going. Definitely going to show up earlier to get a better starting position, with 15 second laps its very hard to keep out of pile ups with 9 trucks on the track.
I raced for my first time on the 4th, I have been practicing for a while and jumped right in to Open 4x4 SC. It was a good time and I ended up taking 5th place in the A main (also the only main only 8 people showed for the class).
Here are all the classes that were run:
Novice (basically any other class can run in this, two wins bumps you up to the class you should be in. This was mostly younger kids and people who had not raced before)
Stadium Truck (gaining popularity now)
1/10 buggy 17.5
1/10 buggy 13.5
Open 2wd SC
Open 4wd SC
1/8 E buggy
I forget if it was 17.5 or 13.5 but 1/10 buggy was the only class to have a B main. This was the weekly Wednesday club races but they run more classes (including nitro) on the weekends with a larger turnout, I think it is every other weekend.
I feel like some of the guys in open 4x4 sc were driving over their head and there was a lot of taking out going on in both qualifiers and the main. I started qualifying in 7th and had to work my way through the pack but every time I would pull a clean pass on someone they would just pin it and push me off the track and keep on going. Definitely going to show up earlier to get a better starting position, with 15 second laps its very hard to keep out of pile ups with 9 trucks on the track.