4x4 shourt course why only 2s lipo???
06-25-2012, 08:17 AM
#46
If everyone is making bigger heavier trucks for 1/10 scale 4x4 sc why not just move up to 1/8th scale buggy? If the new round of SC 4x4's come out looking like 1/8th scale buggies I am getting out of it and going 1/8 scale. If the electronics are the same I might as well save 60 a year on bodies and be faster lol
06-25-2012, 08:51 AM
#47
I don't see what the issue is. My truck flies on 2s. Any more power and it's just spinning it's tires. It's not heavy enough to hook up like a eBuggy.
06-25-2012, 09:02 AM
#48
SCTE on 4s with the 2050 has been tuned down to feel like my pro4 4600kv. The difference is I never get over 135 on the motor, NEVER. It runs cold all day long. I run thunder power 4s 2700mah hard case batteries that are lighter then my 2s batteries and still get 15min hard runtime. For 1:1 car guys think of a 3k pound drag car and putting a turbocharged nitrous fed 6 cylinder or a 600 cubic inch chevy motor in it. Which will be more reliable/run cooler/have gobs of torque and run on pump gas?
06-25-2012, 08:31 PM
#49
that's great that you run a 2700mah battery, sensibly geared. you are an example FOR the argument of open battery. the problem is that not everybody would go that route. there are those that would run 5000mah batteries and jack the gearing up so that the thing goes 45-50mph on the straight and usually someone that would do that isn't a great driver to begin with. i suppose you could come up with some formula for batteries where if you wanted to run 4s you would be limited to 3000mah or 3500mah with 3s, but then not all tracks run the same length races so the formula would have to be different for every track. too complicated. 2S rule works good enough. it's the only thing keeping SOME sanity in the class.
Lets see if that happens in another class, 4WD mod buggy:
That runs 2S yes, but the cars weigh 3-4 pounds. Any brushless motor is allowed. Does anyone in that class run a Novak 3.5 brushless motor or a Tekin 2.5 brushless motor? No. You know why? Because they are not stupid. They know that too much power doesn't help them win races. We are talking about off-road racing with turns and jumps, not a drag race down an asphalt quarter mile.
Yes, maybe someone might try to run a Tekin T8 2050KV on 4S without detuning it. But unless he is really, really stupid, he won't race it that way.
Last edited by ta_man; 06-25-2012 at 08:55 PM.
06-26-2012, 09:58 AM
#50
This is the argument that many people seem to make against open battery: that people will set their cars up stupidly.
Lets see if that happens in another class, 4WD mod buggy:
That runs 2S yes, but the cars weigh 3-4 pounds. Any brushless motor is allowed. Does anyone in that class run a Novak 3.5 brushless motor or a Tekin 2.5 brushless motor? No. You know why? Because they are not stupid. They know that too much power doesn't help them win races. We are talking about off-road racing with turns and jumps, not a drag race down an asphalt quarter mile.
Yes, maybe someone might try to run a Tekin T8 2050KV on 4S without detuning it. But unless he is really, really stupid, he won't race it that way.
Lets see if that happens in another class, 4WD mod buggy:
That runs 2S yes, but the cars weigh 3-4 pounds. Any brushless motor is allowed. Does anyone in that class run a Novak 3.5 brushless motor or a Tekin 2.5 brushless motor? No. You know why? Because they are not stupid. They know that too much power doesn't help them win races. We are talking about off-road racing with turns and jumps, not a drag race down an asphalt quarter mile.
Yes, maybe someone might try to run a Tekin T8 2050KV on 4S without detuning it. But unless he is really, really stupid, he won't race it that way.
Also 4wd SC is very much viewed as a novice/sprotsmen class, people START racing with it. I don't think it would occur to anyone to race a wheeler first race ever, I have never seen a novice wheeler class
06-26-2012, 10:10 AM
#51
having run several different set ups in my 1/8 E buggy 3s/2650kv,4s/1800kv and now 5s 1650kv. I run smaller packs get the same or longer run time and cooler temps on my 5s setup as i did any of my other setups. I would imagine the castle 2400kv on 3s would be just about perfect plenty of power and torques run ice cold and its actually 7400rpm less then the wildly popular rx8/4600 combo so it would be slower but far more efficient
06-26-2012, 12:36 PM
#52
I believe it has been established that 1/10 electric = 2s batteries
I have not personally had any problems yet running 2s, seems plenty fast and I have not run across run time or heat issues yet.
I do not have a problem with higher voltage stuff, yes it’s a fact that when geared correctly and the appropriate motor is applied on 4s run time is longer and heat buildup is less in the electronics and motor.
IMO it should stay 2s to keep the vehicles from getting any heavier than they already are and away from their 1/8 scale cousins. If it does end up changing I would have no qualms about jumping to 4s but after racing a 4wd Corr truck, they seem to be right where they should be in terms of speed agility and jumping prowess
I have not personally had any problems yet running 2s, seems plenty fast and I have not run across run time or heat issues yet.
I do not have a problem with higher voltage stuff, yes it’s a fact that when geared correctly and the appropriate motor is applied on 4s run time is longer and heat buildup is less in the electronics and motor.
IMO it should stay 2s to keep the vehicles from getting any heavier than they already are and away from their 1/8 scale cousins. If it does end up changing I would have no qualms about jumping to 4s but after racing a 4wd Corr truck, they seem to be right where they should be in terms of speed agility and jumping prowess
06-26-2012, 01:02 PM
#53
ROAR Limited the class to 2s to prevent them from going too fast. Simple as that.
06-28-2012, 12:44 PM
#54
06-28-2012, 03:35 PM
#55
We see how that worked out by looking at lap times/race results. I can't say what it is like at every track, but the most recent race at my track, the same driver won 4WD SCT and E-8 with lap times in SCT less than 5% lower than E-8.
What the 2S rule led to is manufacturers (Tekin is one example but there are many others too) making motors that consume prodigious amps in the quest to get power levels up. A 4WD SCT with such a motor draws more total wattage out of the batteries than an E8. Total Wattage, so with half the voltage, current more than twice as high. It has been years since a common setup on an E-8 puffed a battery from excessive amp draw or melted the solder on a connector, yet this happens frequently with 4WD SCT. Maybe not so often to the experts or Pro drivers, but to many people nonetheless. Puffed batteries are frequently mentioned in the Losi SCTE thread.
On 2S, using an average of 240 to 290 watts the trucks are on the ragged edge of electrical disaster. The slightest bind in the suspension or a hang-up with another car can put them over the edge.
Just so they can be 5% slower than the E-8s.
06-28-2012, 05:38 PM
#56
sheeple?
I can think for myself!
2wd should stay 2s
4wd should be 3s
I can think for myself!
2wd should stay 2s
4wd should be 3s
06-28-2012, 05:44 PM
#57
Something I posted on the SCTE thread that should be here:
IMO (rant on)
2s is fine for SCT 2wd
3s should be the standard for 4wd SCT
If 2s was such a great idea for 4wd then we would not have seen such a move from companies to come out with motors that won't overheat in this porker to the more powerful esc's that are needed (usually an 1/8 scale esc) to the 2s lipos with maximum mah's.
Really... Listen if 2s was such a great idea then we should all be able to just take out our whole electronic setup from our 2wd SCT's and drop it in to your 4wd SCT. We all know that is not the case
The 2s rules have not saved anyone money from both the companies that had to spend money to come out with motors and/or esc's that will work on 2s for this class to the end user who now has to buy the new motors and/or esc's and let's not forget the need for lipos that can deliver a 10min main.
Ok... so what about this 2s rule has saved anyone money racing 4wd SCT's?
And my last point that I will make in this thread about this subject (don't want to forget this is the SCTE thread and not the other thread) IS...
Anyone who wants to stand on the 2s is just fine for these 4wd SCT's is not taking into account the harder strain on their electronics, they are simply not aware and/or knowledgeable about the differences and I feel that is where most of these debates go nowhere. Because the same people just blindly follow what others tell them because they are not willing or just don't have the time to get informed.
My main point here is until someone can tell me they can take out their 2wd SCT electronics and just drop it in their 4wd SCT then just stop it.
Just say it like it is... We are just following the rules that others made wether they make sense or not.
I don't mind following rules when they actually always serve their intended purpose but this rule does not and should not simply be followed because its the rule.
IMO (rant on)
2s is fine for SCT 2wd
3s should be the standard for 4wd SCT
If 2s was such a great idea for 4wd then we would not have seen such a move from companies to come out with motors that won't overheat in this porker to the more powerful esc's that are needed (usually an 1/8 scale esc) to the 2s lipos with maximum mah's.
Really... Listen if 2s was such a great idea then we should all be able to just take out our whole electronic setup from our 2wd SCT's and drop it in to your 4wd SCT. We all know that is not the case
The 2s rules have not saved anyone money from both the companies that had to spend money to come out with motors and/or esc's that will work on 2s for this class to the end user who now has to buy the new motors and/or esc's and let's not forget the need for lipos that can deliver a 10min main.
Ok... so what about this 2s rule has saved anyone money racing 4wd SCT's?
And my last point that I will make in this thread about this subject (don't want to forget this is the SCTE thread and not the other thread) IS...
Anyone who wants to stand on the 2s is just fine for these 4wd SCT's is not taking into account the harder strain on their electronics, they are simply not aware and/or knowledgeable about the differences and I feel that is where most of these debates go nowhere. Because the same people just blindly follow what others tell them because they are not willing or just don't have the time to get informed.
My main point here is until someone can tell me they can take out their 2wd SCT electronics and just drop it in their 4wd SCT then just stop it.
Just say it like it is... We are just following the rules that others made wether they make sense or not.
I don't mind following rules when they actually always serve their intended purpose but this rule does not and should not simply be followed because its the rule.
06-28-2012, 06:18 PM
#58
Something I posted on the SCTE thread that should be here:
IMO (rant on)
2s is fine for SCT 2wd
3s should be the standard for 4wd SCT
If 2s was such a great idea for 4wd then we would not have seen such a move from companies to come out with motors that won't overheat in this porker to the more powerful esc's that are needed (usually an 1/8 scale esc) to the 2s lipos with maximum mah's.
Really... Listen if 2s was such a great idea then we should all be able to just take out our whole electronic setup from our 2wd SCT's and drop it in to your 4wd SCT. We all know that is not the case
The 2s rules have not saved anyone money from both the companies that had to spend money to come out with motors and/or esc's that will work on 2s for this class to the end user who now has to buy the new motors and/or esc's and let's not forget the need for lipos that can deliver a 10min main.
Ok... so what about this 2s rule has saved anyone money racing 4wd SCT's?
And my last point that I will make in this thread about this subject (don't want to forget this is the SCTE thread and not the other thread) IS...
Anyone who wants to stand on the 2s is just fine for these 4wd SCT's is not taking into account the harder strain on their electronics, they are simply not aware and/or knowledgeable about the differences and I feel that is where most of these debates go nowhere. Because the same people just blindly follow what others tell them because they are not willing or just don't have the time to get informed.
My main point here is until someone can tell me they can take out their 2wd SCT electronics and just drop it in their 4wd SCT then just stop it.
Just say it like it is... We are just following the rules that others made wether they make sense or not.
I don't mind following rules when they actually always serve their intended purpose but this rule does not and should not simply be followed because its the rule.
IMO (rant on)
2s is fine for SCT 2wd
3s should be the standard for 4wd SCT
If 2s was such a great idea for 4wd then we would not have seen such a move from companies to come out with motors that won't overheat in this porker to the more powerful esc's that are needed (usually an 1/8 scale esc) to the 2s lipos with maximum mah's.
Really... Listen if 2s was such a great idea then we should all be able to just take out our whole electronic setup from our 2wd SCT's and drop it in to your 4wd SCT. We all know that is not the case
The 2s rules have not saved anyone money from both the companies that had to spend money to come out with motors and/or esc's that will work on 2s for this class to the end user who now has to buy the new motors and/or esc's and let's not forget the need for lipos that can deliver a 10min main.
Ok... so what about this 2s rule has saved anyone money racing 4wd SCT's?
And my last point that I will make in this thread about this subject (don't want to forget this is the SCTE thread and not the other thread) IS...
Anyone who wants to stand on the 2s is just fine for these 4wd SCT's is not taking into account the harder strain on their electronics, they are simply not aware and/or knowledgeable about the differences and I feel that is where most of these debates go nowhere. Because the same people just blindly follow what others tell them because they are not willing or just don't have the time to get informed.
My main point here is until someone can tell me they can take out their 2wd SCT electronics and just drop it in their 4wd SCT then just stop it.
Just say it like it is... We are just following the rules that others made wether they make sense or not.
I don't mind following rules when they actually always serve their intended purpose but this rule does not and should not simply be followed because its the rule.
06-28-2012, 07:05 PM
#59
Usually I'm against strict rules. But 4x4 SCT no longer reflects what SCT was about. It used to be a newbie freindly outdoor class with slower, rougher, close racing. Now it's just plain too fast. If it keeps getting faster it'll die "The 4x4 Buggy Death" as a class.
I'd rather see a weaker, cooler running, higher wind spec, brushless 4 pole motor. 2s limit. And back to the lame 4x4 Slash KM2 looking RTR tires.
Just to slow the class back down to the doorbashing, close combat style racing it used to be. They're so fast now that the field spreads out just like E 1/8th buggy. Minus well just make the jump to E buggy.
I'd rather see a weaker, cooler running, higher wind spec, brushless 4 pole motor. 2s limit. And back to the lame 4x4 Slash KM2 looking RTR tires.
Just to slow the class back down to the doorbashing, close combat style racing it used to be. They're so fast now that the field spreads out just like E 1/8th buggy. Minus well just make the jump to E buggy.
06-28-2012, 07:46 PM
#60
Something I posted on the SCTE thread that should be here:
IMO (rant on)
2s is fine for SCT 2wd
3s should be the standard for 4wd SCT
If 2s was such a great idea for 4wd then we would not have seen such a move from companies to come out with motors that won't overheat in this porker to the more powerful esc's that are needed (usually an 1/8 scale esc) to the 2s lipos with maximum mah's.
Really... Listen if 2s was such a great idea then we should all be able to just take out our whole electronic setup from our 2wd SCT's and drop it in to your 4wd SCT. We all know that is not the case
The 2s rules have not saved anyone money from both the companies that had to spend money to come out with motors and/or esc's that will work on 2s for this class to the end user who now has to buy the new motors and/or esc's and let's not forget the need for lipos that can deliver a 10min main.
Ok... so what about this 2s rule has saved anyone money racing 4wd SCT's?
And my last point that I will make in this thread about this subject (don't want to forget this is the SCTE thread and not the other thread) IS...
Anyone who wants to stand on the 2s is just fine for these 4wd SCT's is not taking into account the harder strain on their electronics, they are simply not aware and/or knowledgeable about the differences and I feel that is where most of these debates go nowhere. Because the same people just blindly follow what others tell them because they are not willing or just don't have the time to get informed.
My main point here is until someone can tell me they can take out their 2wd SCT electronics and just drop it in their 4wd SCT then just stop it.
Just say it like it is... We are just following the rules that others made wether they make sense or not.
I don't mind following rules when they actually always serve their intended purpose but this rule does not and should not simply be followed because its the rule.
IMO (rant on)
2s is fine for SCT 2wd
3s should be the standard for 4wd SCT
If 2s was such a great idea for 4wd then we would not have seen such a move from companies to come out with motors that won't overheat in this porker to the more powerful esc's that are needed (usually an 1/8 scale esc) to the 2s lipos with maximum mah's.
Really... Listen if 2s was such a great idea then we should all be able to just take out our whole electronic setup from our 2wd SCT's and drop it in to your 4wd SCT. We all know that is not the case
The 2s rules have not saved anyone money from both the companies that had to spend money to come out with motors and/or esc's that will work on 2s for this class to the end user who now has to buy the new motors and/or esc's and let's not forget the need for lipos that can deliver a 10min main.
Ok... so what about this 2s rule has saved anyone money racing 4wd SCT's?
And my last point that I will make in this thread about this subject (don't want to forget this is the SCTE thread and not the other thread) IS...
Anyone who wants to stand on the 2s is just fine for these 4wd SCT's is not taking into account the harder strain on their electronics, they are simply not aware and/or knowledgeable about the differences and I feel that is where most of these debates go nowhere. Because the same people just blindly follow what others tell them because they are not willing or just don't have the time to get informed.
My main point here is until someone can tell me they can take out their 2wd SCT electronics and just drop it in their 4wd SCT then just stop it.
Just say it like it is... We are just following the rules that others made wether they make sense or not.
I don't mind following rules when they actually always serve their intended purpose but this rule does not and should not simply be followed because its the rule.