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Old 09-18-2011, 03:17 PM   #1
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Default Mid Motor TLR 22/22T Thread

Well curiosity got the best of me. I've seen all the set-ups in Europe talking about putting weight towards the rear in the mid-motor configuration, they have done this a number of ways-

1) dremeling the chassis to fit the shorty lipo sideways in the chassis
2) flipping the rear arms. (this does two things, it shortens the wheelbase at the rear end, and by doing that moves the weight distribution rearward without adding weight)
3) obviously the weight kit

so i got to thinking about this and wondered, can i get the CG the same as a rear motor with all these tweaks WHILE keeping 90%+ of the weight between the wheelbase of the car. Basically i was looking for something different. it comes with all these parts and personally i didnt see any reason it shouldnt work.

flame me for it...... i really dont care, my laptimes after some tuning were identical and if anything more consistent with the mid motor.

so heres the story of how it played out-

this testing was done at mikes hobby shop in houston. its an outdoor but covered 1/8th scale clay track. it gets sandy and slick off groove and will blue groove nicely. it was sandy and damp in the morning and dried out by the afternoon to be decently grooved and really a nice testing surface that wasnt overly slick but is pretty indicative of a typical surface out there.

i did a a lot of playing with the car on the bench at home and ended up with something like this-


the car has an almost identical CG to my rear motor set-up (casey pecks set-up) and i didnt change the pistons, springs, or oil weights from my rear motor. it has every piece of the weight kit on the rear end of the car, a full 70g over the back axle. it felt like a lot of weight over the back end and it turned out to be too much, the car was far too stiff and felt a little sluggish, i was fighting massive understeer.

i kept the springs the same and switched to a 55 piston in the back and 27.5 in the back and 32.5 up front. i took 12 grams off the weight in the back.

it felt better but still had understeer, so i changed the springs to red up front, and pink in the back, pulled a further 8 grams off the rear. it felt knife edged. it was great if you got it just right but loose if you were off line.

so i got radical, got out my dremel and flipped the rear arms. this took some work. some trial and error. but the end result was pretty impressive.
i had to trim down on side of the shock standoffs about 1mm. shave the shock tower just a little bit, then space the shock bottom off the arm 6mm. (it took some hits that day and i dont really have any durability concerns. )





after this i had ridiculous forward bite. so much so that it was wheeling more down the straight away than my rear motor EVER did. i turned the motor down a bit. the balance of the car was still a little loose so i made the rear camber link as long as i could to tame it down.... after that the car was absolutely dialed.

the end set-up being-

Front-
1 degree of camber
outside hole position with 4mm ballstud spacers
5 degree caster blocks
25 degree brass kick-up plate
red springs
32.5wt oil
55 piston
inside hole on shocks
slight toe out
aluminum camber block, hinge pin block, spindles, servo mounts and steering rack

Rear-
1.5 degree camber
inside hole on the camber block, outside on the rear hub
50g rear weight from the weight kit
2.5 degree anti-squat
3.5 degree LRC toe plate
+.75 rear hubs
Pink springs
27.5wt oil
55 piston
inside hole on shock tower
aluminum rear hubs
wheelbase all the way back with the rear arms flipped

Misc-
24mm ride height
Side guards trimmed to fit shorty lipo sideways
exotec carbon battery brace
stock battery brace trimmed to fit
M3 Proline Suburbs rear tires with stock foams
Soft AKA Rebar Front tires with AKA red Foam trimmed to fit
Viper VTX10 ESC w/ 8.5 motor

my laptimes are really consistent with it. it brakes like no other 2wd buggy ive ever driven. it has better forward bite than my rear motor does and more steering by far. the corner speed is pretty unbelievable by comparison. i think that with more track time i will undoubtedly be beating my rear motor times.

comments? questions? feel free to ask and discuss.

Matt

Last edited by BuckMan; 09-22-2011 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 09-18-2011, 06:30 PM   #2
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Thumbs up Matt.... :)

Thanks for making this thred about thr Mid Motor... I'm sure quite alot of people are gonna check it out. I for one love my mid motor 22. Nice your posting your findings .... Keep up the good work. I have not switched my rear arm but from what you say and all the European thred's it sounds like it does something good! Keep it comming!
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Old 09-18-2011, 06:34 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by XXXDad View Post
Thanks for making this thred about thr Mid Motor... I'm sure quite alot of people are gonna check it out. I for one love my mid motor 22. Nice your posting your findings .... Keep up the good work. I have not switched my rear arm but from what you say and all the European it sounds like it does something good! Keep it comming!
one thing i would love is a bracket or spacer to move the in camber position forward about 1cm. what this would allow you to do is move the shocks to the front of the shock tower and not have to do anything custom to stop the binding.

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Old 09-19-2011, 02:52 AM   #4
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Default 22 mid flipped rear arms

Hello,

I run the 22 rear motor with the rear arms flipped.
I would try fitting the top of the rear shocks on
the front of the shock tower to try and get rid of
that strange shock angle.

Greetings

Hans
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:17 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Hansie2 View Post
Hello,

I run the 22 rear motor with the rear arms flipped.
I would try fitting the top of the rear shocks on
the front of the shock tower to try and get rid of
that strange shock angle.

Greetings

Hans
Can you post pics? I tried this on the bench but the camber link and the shock wanted to take up the same space and just binded everything up. Which is why I mentioned have some sort of bracket to push those camber links forward on the vander block side. You could also make them them a little bulkier than you think you need to out of something like stainless steel, and use them as weights.

Matt
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:38 AM   #6
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Default Mid motor no fliped arms......

I did jack the Batt. sidways, it was a good move. I run the full 62 gram brass.


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Old 09-19-2011, 07:28 AM   #7
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I did jack the Batt. sidways, it was a good move. I run the full 62 gram brass.
how does that shell clear the battery posts with the pack turned sideways? .... what shell is that?

Matt
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:42 PM   #8
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Cool

Saw this thread this morning and thought is give it a try. Was a little easier tho by flipping arms and running shock in front of tower in the middle hole. The bottom of the shock was in the outer hole on the ARM with a 2mm spacer. As far as camber link goes I had it on the inside on both ends, and on the forward most hole on hub. Geometry might be a little less than optimal, but everything clears with no modification, so u can put it back if it pushes like a bulldozer!

Gonna make adapter to move inner camber link position forward and get everything lined up better and be able to run longer links.

Do you realize this shorten the wheelbase half an inch or so?!?! Can't wait to see difference, but its been pouring down here all day, and shows no sign of letting up soon. Guess that'll give me time to make those adapters!
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:49 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Roycephus View Post
Saw this thread this morning and thought is give it a try. Was a little easier tho by flipping arms and running shock in front of tower in the middle hole. The bottom of the shock was in the outer hole on the ARM with a 2mm spacer. As far as camber link goes I had it on the inside on both ends, and on the forward most hole on hub. Geometry might be a little less than optimal, but everything clears with no modification, so u can put it back if it pushes like a bulldozer!

Gonna make adapter to move inner camber link position forward and get everything lined up better and be able to run longer links.

Do you realize this shorten the wheelbase half an inch or so?!?! Can't wait to see difference, but its been pouring down here all day, and shows no sign of letting up soon. Guess that'll give me time to make those adapters!
Hmm... I think that the aluminum rear hubs are missing one row of holes vs the standard plastic hubs. Please post pics of the arms moved with the shocks forward and also the adaptors i'd love to see what you come up with.

Matt
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Old 09-20-2011, 10:32 AM   #10
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How's this? All I used was a 2mm washer behind bottom shock eyelet.

Still haven't tried it, stopped raining, but still soaked!

Ok, after further review, I can't seem to upload a pic I took from my phone. I just uploaded my avatar pic the same way? Any help?

I think I need to put it on Flickr or sumpthin, I'm kinda computer retarded.
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:08 AM   #11
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Let's try this again. I've got the pic on flickr. Look up sidecar Roy

If thats how it works, I can't seem to find the url of the photo to copy onto here.
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:18 PM   #12
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Smile Yes you need a host site like flicker

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Let's try this again. I've got the pic on flickr. Look up sidecar Roy

If thats how it works, I can't seem to find the url of the photo to copy onto here.
I use photobucket..... hope you figure it out!
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:37 PM   #13
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I havent tried it myself but the TeamC/TQ bigbore camberlink might help to have the shock up front.

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Old 09-20-2011, 05:53 PM   #14
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I've got an idea to move the rear camber link to move the shock to the front of the tower hopefully the parts are machined and installed within the next week and a half, just need to find some short tie rods, I run on carpet (like JAUNE) so I'll have something similar to e-speed hangers on my car (metrc of course)
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Old 09-20-2011, 06:50 PM   #15
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I havent tried it myself but the TeamC/TQ bigbore camberlink might help to have the shock up front.


P/n and or link to buy it? That is super cool

Matt
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