1LikesTLR 22T Thread
08-08-2011, 12:34 PM
#62
Well I think that making a high end competition SCT 22 is going in the wrong direction. SC was developed for the beginner in mind and helped a lot of guys and girls get into this sport, and most are still racing or playing with these low end RTR's still and being competitive. Now days most racers don't know the basics or even know how to change a tire. I would say keep the SC class pure and keep the high end vehicles out of this market. A new 22T could bring back the class, the 22 did it for the 2wd buggy class and I think a lot of guys were waiting just for this. Yes TLR can do a 22 SCT but is it good for the class as a whole? Only for the 2% that race and want to and can understand setup, let's keep the SCT class fun and easy and most of all simple for the guy that is coming out to the track for the first time so that can have real fun and be on the same level, Touring car started out just like this and you see what happened to that class.
Bring on the 22T and let's see what the market wants, I think true racers will flock to the 22T and SCT guys will stay in the easy class.
Bring on the 22T and let's see what the market wants, I think true racers will flock to the 22T and SCT guys will stay in the easy class.
08-08-2011, 12:51 PM
#63
Tech Addict
Well I think that making a high end competition SCT 22 is going in the wrong direction. SC was developed for the beginner in mind and helped a lot of guys and girls get into this sport, and most are still racing or playing with these low end RTR's still and being competitive. Now days most racers don't know the basics or even know how to change a tire. I would say keep the SC class pure and keep the high end vehicles out of this market. A new 22T could bring back the class, the 22 did it for the 2wd buggy class and I think a lot of guys were waiting just for this. Yes TLR can do a 22 SCT but is it good for the class as a whole? Only for the 2% that race and want to and can understand setup, let's keep the SCT class fun and easy and most of all simple for the guy that is coming out to the track for the first time so that can have real fun and be on the same level, Touring car started out just like this and you see what happened to that class.
Bring on the 22T and let's see what the market wants, I think true racers will flock to the 22T and SCT guys will stay in the easy class.
Bring on the 22T and let's see what the market wants, I think true racers will flock to the 22T and SCT guys will stay in the easy class.
The SCT doesn't need a high end vehicle? Ok, then what about the FT SC10? That is a high end purpose built race SCT. How about the Blitz ESE Pro? That's a high end purpose build race SCT. What about Team Durango? They are serious about racing, and racing only. They brought in a race built 4wd SC (which is bad ass BTW). Kyosho is also in the 2WD Game. So almost every single one of the big manufacturer's have already brought out a race built SCT. Though where is Losi in that? They had the chance to bring out the Ten-SCTE under the TLR banner and did not. That IMO deserved to be brought into the TLR banner in kit form.
Losi is honestly behind in the game it seems. Look at everyone else I just mentioned. They all have a race built SC truck out on the market. Yet Losi has absolutely nothing.
08-08-2011, 12:59 PM
#64
Well I think that making a high end competition SCT 22 is going in the wrong direction. SC was developed for the beginner in mind and helped a lot of guys and girls get into this sport, and most are still racing or playing with these low end RTR's still and being competitive. Now days most racers don't know the basics or even know how to change a tire. I would say keep the SC class pure and keep the high end vehicles out of this market. A new 22T could bring back the class, the 22 did it for the 2wd buggy class and I think a lot of guys were waiting just for this. Yes TLR can do a 22 SCT but is it good for the class as a whole? Only for the 2% that race and want to and can understand setup, let's keep the SCT class fun and easy and most of all simple for the guy that is coming out to the track for the first time so that can have real fun and be on the same level, Touring car started out just like this and you see what happened to that class.
Bring on the 22T and let's see what the market wants, I think true racers will flock to the 22T and SCT guys will stay in the easy class.
Bring on the 22T and let's see what the market wants, I think true racers will flock to the 22T and SCT guys will stay in the easy class.
A 22 SCT makes more sense than a ST.
08-08-2011, 01:22 PM
#65
I think this is short sighted. SCT is not just a "Beginner Class", its a full blown race class. The same mentality would've kept good race tread design tires out of SCT as well, and stuck to the pathetic stock RTR "Scale" tread tires. Like it or not, SCT has eclipsed the old ST class. While I agree 2WD buggy got a boost from the 22, I didn't see massive influx of racers into the class. Its a niche market, and I think Losi knows that.
A 22 SCT makes more sense than a ST.
A 22 SCT makes more sense than a ST.
and another discussion.Not bashing SCT but keep it fun, keep it affordable and most of all keep the team driver out of it!!!! Give the average guy a chance will ya
I will just say that the 22T will be welcome and if TLR makes it real racers will buy it and the Asscoiated guys will bring out their T4's again and the fun will begin again. I bet the only thing that will be talked about a this years Nationals is the 22T and how it performs and when can I get one
08-08-2011, 02:04 PM
#66
I don't race SCT because its the "Only" thing to race. I got into it because it looked like fun. We had a strong mod buggy class long before the 22 came out, and it'll likely stick around as long as there are buggies with parts support available. Some guys just like that type of car. The STs all but evaporated, even before SCTs hit the scene.(initially we blamed the popularity and durability of 8th scale) I see SCT as the final nail in the coffin. Wildly popular, broad appeal and easily produced because really... all they are is a stretched ST with a parachute body and different "scale looking" wheels and tires. The appearance alone makes them far more marketable than ST. Again, I liked my ST; great driving truck and made me a better driver than an 8th scale would.
SCT is as much a race class as any. Trying to keep better drivers out of it is futile. I don't understand why people still think SCT is anything but an evolution of ST.(by that I'm referring to the obvious relations between the two; same basic layout, just longer, etc...) Do they handle as well... of course not, but that's not the point. The fact is, SCT brought something to RC racing that ST never could... More People.
Who can say if the bean counters at Losi would green light a 22T. I wouldn't have guessed the 22 would be released. While still being run, I didn't see 2WD buggy as expandable. Now we have the XXX-SCB in the mix. Kyosho came out with something very similar a while back, and it never took off. It looks like now that the SCT thing is in full swing, the SCB class might gain traction. Who knows...
The appearance alone makes them far more marketable than ST. Again, I liked my ST; great driving truck and made me a better driver than an 8th scale would. SCT is as much a race class as any. Trying to keep better drivers out of it is futile. I don't understand why people still think SCT is anything but an evolution of ST.(by that I'm referring to the obvious relations between the two; same basic layout, just longer, etc...) Do they handle as well... of course not, but that's not the point. The fact is, SCT brought something to RC racing that ST never could... More People.
Who can say if the bean counters at Losi would green light a 22T. I wouldn't have guessed the 22 would be released. While still being run, I didn't see 2WD buggy as expandable. Now we have the XXX-SCB in the mix. Kyosho came out with something very similar a while back, and it never took off. It looks like now that the SCT thing is in full swing, the SCB class might gain traction. Who knows...
08-08-2011, 02:08 PM
#67
This is where Associated and Durango are ahead of the game. They understand that this class is no longer just a beginner racing class.
The SCT doesn't need a high end vehicle? Ok, then what about the FT SC10? That is a high end purpose built race SCT. How about the Blitz ESE Pro? That's a high end purpose build race SCT. What about Team Durango? They are serious about racing, and racing only. They brought in a race built 4wd SC (which is bad ass BTW). Kyosho is also in the 2WD Game. So almost every single one of the big manufacturer's have already brought out a race built SCT. Though where is Losi in that? They had the chance to bring out the Ten-SCTE under the TLR banner and did not. That IMO deserved to be brought into the TLR banner in kit form.
Losi is honestly behind in the game it seems. Look at everyone else I just mentioned. They all have a race built SC truck out on the market. Yet Losi has absolutely nothing.
The SCT doesn't need a high end vehicle? Ok, then what about the FT SC10? That is a high end purpose built race SCT. How about the Blitz ESE Pro? That's a high end purpose build race SCT. What about Team Durango? They are serious about racing, and racing only. They brought in a race built 4wd SC (which is bad ass BTW). Kyosho is also in the 2WD Game. So almost every single one of the big manufacturer's have already brought out a race built SCT. Though where is Losi in that? They had the chance to bring out the Ten-SCTE under the TLR banner and did not. That IMO deserved to be brought into the TLR banner in kit form.
Losi is honestly behind in the game it seems. Look at everyone else I just mentioned. They all have a race built SC truck out on the market. Yet Losi has absolutely nothing.
08-08-2011, 02:47 PM
#68
I don't think I was being short sighted, I know that now SCT are the major class and most of the guys race SCT because it's the only thing to race, that is not an issue with me. I know most guys who race SCT could not wait till Losi introduced the 22 Buggy they want more of a challenge in there racing, I have a SCT it's fun but 2wd buggy is where it's at for me, and other racers. Tires is a whole other issue when it comes to SCT and another discussion.
Not bashing SCT but keep it fun, keep it affordable and most of all keep the team driver out of it!!!! Give the average guy a chance will ya I will just say that the 22T will be welcome and if TLR makes it real racers will buy it and the Asscoiated guys will bring out their T4's again and the fun will begin again. I bet the only thing that will be talked about a this years Nationals is the 22T and how it performs and when can I get one
and another discussion.Not bashing SCT but keep it fun, keep it affordable and most of all keep the team driver out of it!!!! Give the average guy a chance will ya
I will just say that the 22T will be welcome and if TLR makes it real racers will buy it and the Asscoiated guys will bring out their T4's again and the fun will begin again. I bet the only thing that will be talked about a this years Nationals is the 22T and how it performs and when can I get one2 years ago the 2wd buggy class was the largest E class in the state series here. This year, there's barely enough to run. SCT has become dominant with a nearly equal split in 4x4 and 2wd. I think there's only been a ST class at one venue with like 4 drivers
I don't hear anyone pining for a new 22T either...it's all about SCT and when a 22SCT will come out. IMHO, a HUGE mistake sales wise to bring out the 22T first, but like I said earlier, that seems to be par for the course for Losi these days.
08-08-2011, 02:53 PM
#69
Tech Apprentice
I will buy a 22t the day they are available.
08-08-2011, 03:01 PM
#71
Well, I hope for the ST lovers out there you are right, and the 22T makes a much bigger impact than the 22, but I think it's a pipe dream. Besides a few new drivers when the 22 first came out...the class has absolutely DIED here despite the 22.
2 years ago the 2wd buggy class was the largest E class in the state series here. This year, there's barely enough to run. SCT has become dominant with a nearly equal split in 4x4 and 2wd. I think there's only been a ST class at one venue with like 4 drivers I don't hear anyone pining for a new 22T either...it's all about SCT and when a 22SCT will come out. IMHO, a HUGE mistake sales wise to bring out the 22T first, but like I said earlier, that seems to be par for the course for Losi these days.
2 years ago the 2wd buggy class was the largest E class in the state series here. This year, there's barely enough to run. SCT has become dominant with a nearly equal split in 4x4 and 2wd. I think there's only been a ST class at one venue with like 4 drivers
I don't hear anyone pining for a new 22T either...it's all about SCT and when a 22SCT will come out. IMHO, a HUGE mistake sales wise to bring out the 22T first, but like I said earlier, that seems to be par for the course for Losi these days.
08-08-2011, 03:19 PM
#72
Well, I hope for the ST lovers out there you are right, and the 22T makes a much bigger impact than the 22, but I think it's a pipe dream. Besides a few new drivers when the 22 first came out...the class has absolutely DIED here despite the 22.
2 years ago the 2wd buggy class was the largest E class in the state series here. This year, there's barely enough to run. SCT has become dominant with a nearly equal split in 4x4 and 2wd. I think there's only been a ST class at one venue with like 4 drivers I don't hear anyone pining for a new 22T either...it's all about SCT and when a 22SCT will come out. IMHO, a HUGE mistake sales wise to bring out the 22T first, but like I said earlier, that seems to be par for the course for Losi these days.
2 years ago the 2wd buggy class was the largest E class in the state series here. This year, there's barely enough to run. SCT has become dominant with a nearly equal split in 4x4 and 2wd. I think there's only been a ST class at one venue with like 4 drivers
I don't hear anyone pining for a new 22T either...it's all about SCT and when a 22SCT will come out. IMHO, a HUGE mistake sales wise to bring out the 22T first, but like I said earlier, that seems to be par for the course for Losi these days.
08-08-2011, 03:41 PM
#73
08-08-2011, 03:54 PM
#74
With the 22's name partly meaning 2 configuration, am I the only who thinks maybe the truck might be ST and/or SCT? Maybe a stretch, just thinking out loud.
08-08-2011, 04:01 PM
#75
Here is everything you need to know in a nutshell. Im looking at this from all sides as best as I can.
You have (3) types of people in this discussion.
1: "I wish I was a pro, but Im not" -- These guys are the ones pushing hardcore for the 22T and saying SCT sucks. These guys like a race where everyone has to drive a perfect line, never make contact with each other, and rely on either a better setup, faster motor, or better tire selection to win them the race. They "think" that buggy and ST racing is the "pure" form of racing but they arent pro, the just want to be pro. These are the same guys that are whining on the drivers stand when that new guy who decided to try out (buggy or ST) for the first time and accidentally made contact with everyone on the track and caused the race to be total chaos (or actually entertaining for the spectators, whichever you want to call it). They also should probably be racing onroad, but they couldnt cut it, so they had to come to the dirt. But they hate the dirt and they dont understand that its fun. This form of racing is pretty boring to watch, probably pretty boring to be in as well. It also doesnt draw in new customers because of said boring qualities. This group of people make up a small portion of the customer base and dont serve a purpose towards increasing that customer base.
2: "The real PROS" -- These guys are pro. Just that simple. They are sponsered, they will run whatever they are given, week to week, day to day. It doesnt matter what class, whether its nitro, electric, or propane, they will make it work, and they will make a fool out of you while doing it. They dont care whether ST or SCT is better, they have raced them all, hell they helped design/perfect them for the rest of us. They are essentially not even a customer base at all.
3: " Everyone else" -- These guys just want to have fun. They understand that rubbin' is racin'. They understand that dirt is fun racing. These are the guys who will gladly help anyone out with setup, parts, repairs, anything it takes to make sure that everyone else is having as much fun as they are. They will take time to stop and chat with spectators and answer even the most silly questions, because next week that spectator might be racing also just because of the questions they answered. These guys want to run SCT because you can lean on each other, you can bang around and not cause a major accident or fight in the pits after the race. These arent all "newbie" racers. Some are, others are just sick of putting up with type #1 and decided to switch classes. Some will want beginner kits like an RTR XXX-SCT and run a stock or spec class, others will want to graduate to an ARTR XXX-SCT and move up to a Mod or 17.5 class. Still others are looking for full-on, build it yourself, TLR 22SCT. Alot of variety in this group, but thats ok because they make up BY FAR the largest group of RC consumers out there.
Losi has been last to the party on pretty much every thing lately, but they have also brought out the best in the end too.
My opinion:
Personally, I couldnt care less about stadium truck. I cant remember the last time anyone around me even spoke about the class (aside of taking an XXX-T CR and modding it into an SCT that should already be on the market somewhere). Even nitro ST is pretty much gone far as I know. Either you want to make money and you push the SCT for all its worth, or you want to stay pure to the roots of RC and die with the ST class.
Give me a 22-SCT and I'm all over that sh!t.
You have (3) types of people in this discussion.
1: "I wish I was a pro, but Im not" -- These guys are the ones pushing hardcore for the 22T and saying SCT sucks. These guys like a race where everyone has to drive a perfect line, never make contact with each other, and rely on either a better setup, faster motor, or better tire selection to win them the race. They "think" that buggy and ST racing is the "pure" form of racing but they arent pro, the just want to be pro. These are the same guys that are whining on the drivers stand when that new guy who decided to try out (buggy or ST) for the first time and accidentally made contact with everyone on the track and caused the race to be total chaos (or actually entertaining for the spectators, whichever you want to call it). They also should probably be racing onroad, but they couldnt cut it, so they had to come to the dirt. But they hate the dirt and they dont understand that its fun. This form of racing is pretty boring to watch, probably pretty boring to be in as well. It also doesnt draw in new customers because of said boring qualities. This group of people make up a small portion of the customer base and dont serve a purpose towards increasing that customer base.
2: "The real PROS" -- These guys are pro. Just that simple. They are sponsered, they will run whatever they are given, week to week, day to day. It doesnt matter what class, whether its nitro, electric, or propane, they will make it work, and they will make a fool out of you while doing it. They dont care whether ST or SCT is better, they have raced them all, hell they helped design/perfect them for the rest of us. They are essentially not even a customer base at all.
3: " Everyone else" -- These guys just want to have fun. They understand that rubbin' is racin'. They understand that dirt is fun racing. These are the guys who will gladly help anyone out with setup, parts, repairs, anything it takes to make sure that everyone else is having as much fun as they are. They will take time to stop and chat with spectators and answer even the most silly questions, because next week that spectator might be racing also just because of the questions they answered. These guys want to run SCT because you can lean on each other, you can bang around and not cause a major accident or fight in the pits after the race. These arent all "newbie" racers. Some are, others are just sick of putting up with type #1 and decided to switch classes. Some will want beginner kits like an RTR XXX-SCT and run a stock or spec class, others will want to graduate to an ARTR XXX-SCT and move up to a Mod or 17.5 class. Still others are looking for full-on, build it yourself, TLR 22SCT. Alot of variety in this group, but thats ok because they make up BY FAR the largest group of RC consumers out there.
Losi has been last to the party on pretty much every thing lately, but they have also brought out the best in the end too.
My opinion:
Personally, I couldnt care less about stadium truck. I cant remember the last time anyone around me even spoke about the class (aside of taking an XXX-T CR and modding it into an SCT that should already be on the market somewhere). Even nitro ST is pretty much gone far as I know. Either you want to make money and you push the SCT for all its worth, or you want to stay pure to the roots of RC and die with the ST class.
Give me a 22-SCT and I'm all over that sh!t.