Losi SCTE Carbon Fiber Chassis Market Testing
04-17-2011, 09:12 AM
#46
Racetek - Are you machining the chassis for Hydro? or Are you coming out with one as well? Interesting....
04-17-2011, 09:44 AM
#47
04-17-2011, 09:49 AM
#48
No I am not machining anything for him, nor am I looking to compete with him in any way. If you swing balance the truck rtr without tires/wheels you will notice that the truck is heavy on the motor side. Swing balancing requires swinging the truck from hooks. One in the center of the front shock tower and one in the rear tower. By placing a bubble level on the chassis you can see the balance of the chassis left to right. By adding ballast to the light side one can calculate how much out of balance the chassis is. I run 2s 5000mah lipo, novak 5.5 550 and a RX8 esc. with this combination my truck was 5.7oz heavy on the motor side. By redistributing the weight I was able to get the truck within an oz of being balanced perfectly left to right. Also by moving the motor/center diff I was able to obtain this balance without adding un-needed weight to the chassis. I actually added 1.25oz to the battery side. 3/4oz behind the esc and 1/2 oz beside the battery.
As for the engineering comment.. I am positive the engineers at Losi know what they are doing. They graced us with the 8ight years ago and platform was awesome for its time and is still making headlines today. I just don't think that they intended for that exact platform to be used as an electric truck/buggy when it was originally designed. Adding an electric motor to the car where they did was the easiest way to get a truck to market before AE, however not the best placement for weight distribution. My job is to get the absolute most out of a given platform and design/engineer aftermarket parts with a purpose.. Not parts being made just for the sake of making them. I like the idea of the carbon chassis, hence the reason I want to help. I would love to buy a carbon chassis, designed with a purpose and that has every option of making the Losi the best it can be all in one package.
Wes Brown
OutFrontFrames
As for the engineering comment.. I am positive the engineers at Losi know what they are doing. They graced us with the 8ight years ago and platform was awesome for its time and is still making headlines today. I just don't think that they intended for that exact platform to be used as an electric truck/buggy when it was originally designed. Adding an electric motor to the car where they did was the easiest way to get a truck to market before AE, however not the best placement for weight distribution. My job is to get the absolute most out of a given platform and design/engineer aftermarket parts with a purpose.. Not parts being made just for the sake of making them. I like the idea of the carbon chassis, hence the reason I want to help. I would love to buy a carbon chassis, designed with a purpose and that has every option of making the Losi the best it can be all in one package.
Wes Brown
OutFrontFrames
Last edited by RACETEK; 04-19-2011 at 06:39 AM.
04-17-2011, 10:29 AM
#50
The problem is no two setups are the same.. it seems losi's team drivers all run the 2s 6k lipo's w/ 550 motors, my bet is anyone running anything smaller for lipo if still running a basic stock setup would want to add a touch of weight on the lipo side if they have a 550 motor.
Now anyone who is running a 1410 (540) motor with a 5200-5400mah lipo would be back in balance again.
Now anyone like me who trimmed up the battery tray could have a slight side to side issue if it wasn't balanced by trimming up the rx box.
This could go on for ever :P
I gave a guy on another forum this idea and I don't care if it is repeated but this would be nice for everyone to tune with. (ps the riser could be made for the stock chassis as well)
Now anyone who is running a 1410 (540) motor with a 5200-5400mah lipo would be back in balance again.
Now anyone like me who trimmed up the battery tray could have a slight side to side issue if it wasn't balanced by trimming up the rx box.
This could go on for ever :P
I gave a guy on another forum this idea and I don't care if it is repeated but this would be nice for everyone to tune with. (ps the riser could be made for the stock chassis as well)
Why not just make 1 set of holes in the chassis and then have another graphite riser that has several holes to make the optimum motor position for each person?
This is best of all worlds iMO.. sold if you do it this way
Riser screws into diff and motor go into the spacer, with several choices
This riser then screws into chassis in a single location preventing wear (screw with nut best bet)
Wow is that a great idea or what :P 'pat on back'
thanks
To be honest same approch with a battery/esc tray would be slick too no sides on the battery tray just a second run of graphite with three narrow spacer one front one middle one rear but each wide enough to provide 3 optional locatoins. two velcro straps in the gaps and could even have a couple top plates with adjustable positions for different size lipo's.
Man I'm on fire!
This is best of all worlds iMO.. sold if you do it this way
Riser screws into diff and motor go into the spacer, with several choices
This riser then screws into chassis in a single location preventing wear (screw with nut best bet)
Wow is that a great idea or what :P 'pat on back'
thanks
To be honest same approch with a battery/esc tray would be slick too no sides on the battery tray just a second run of graphite with three narrow spacer one front one middle one rear but each wide enough to provide 3 optional locatoins. two velcro straps in the gaps and could even have a couple top plates with adjustable positions for different size lipo's.
Man I'm on fire!
04-17-2011, 11:31 AM
#52
Right there is your issue. Weigh it with a battery thats functional in this truck, and the ballance is much closer. Anything under 6000mah, IMHO, is incompatible with the SCTE.
I do get what you are saying though, there is a SLIGHT imballance. When I built my chassis, I moved the center diff 8mm towards the centerline, and the left right ballance is spot on with a 360gram battery.
However, I think the L/R ballance is overrated. Take the HB VE8 for instance. Maybe the most unballanced escale out there, yet it still handles great and is very consistent. L/R ballance is nowhere near as important as F/R weight distribution.
I do get what you are saying though, there is a SLIGHT imballance. When I built my chassis, I moved the center diff 8mm towards the centerline, and the left right ballance is spot on with a 360gram battery.
However, I think the L/R ballance is overrated. Take the HB VE8 for instance. Maybe the most unballanced escale out there, yet it still handles great and is very consistent. L/R ballance is nowhere near as important as F/R weight distribution.
04-17-2011, 10:43 PM
#53
I agree that front to rear is more important but using the platform the way it was given to us lends itself to an adjustable motor/center diff area. I pit, setup, experiment, etc with 1/8 scale buggies / truggies at least 30 hours a week. I rarely if ever drive their vehicles. I make setup changes based on what I see and without knowing what the changes are, the drivers give me feedback. I literally watch hundreds of laps every week. I see every correction, every thought process, everything as it is transmitted thru that radio. When a consistent driver is given a well balanced car they will go faster and do it with less effort. The vehicle will corner more consistent in both directions, simply put, more predictable. However, in this particular case the truck seems to be heavy to me. Adding ballast to the light side wasn't the solution I was looking for. In the search for a lighter truck, I found this thread. I would really like to remove weight wherever possible. I have no need for a 6000mah battery for a 5-8 minute race, especially if the truck weighs less. So in an attempt to save weight and obtain a better balance in both directions (fore and aft, left and right) I did what I did. Locally, nobody has attempted to run a standard 540 sized motor in an SCTE, at least not that I have seen or heard of. In fact my 5.5 550 isn't really enough. Most here run a 4.5 550.
Anyways, the OP wanted information so there ya go. That's the balance part of the truck from my perspective. Use it if ya want, if not whatever.
.
Either way, I'm buying one of these chassis!!
Pics below of the test mule.
(Yes I know my fan mount and fan are contributing to the balance factor. Now that the truck is closer I have designed a vertical fan mount that sits in the center of the chassis.)
Anyways, the OP wanted information so there ya go. That's the balance part of the truck from my perspective. Use it if ya want, if not whatever.
.
Either way, I'm buying one of these chassis!!
Pics below of the test mule.
(Yes I know my fan mount and fan are contributing to the balance factor. Now that the truck is closer I have designed a vertical fan mount that sits in the center of the chassis.)
04-17-2011, 10:49 PM
#54
I agree that front to rear is more important but using the platform the way it was given to us lends itself to an adjustable motor/center diff area. I pit, setup, experiment, etc with 1/8 scale buggies / truggies at least 30 hours a week. I rarely if ever drive their vehicles. I make setup changes based on what I see and without knowing what the changes are, the drivers give me feedback. I literally watch hundreds of laps every week. I see every correction, every thought process, everything as it is transmitted thru that radio. When a consistent driver is given a well balanced car they will go faster and do it with less effort. The vehicle will corner more consistent in both directions, simply put, more predictable. However, in this particular case the truck seems to be heavy to me. Adding ballast to the light side wasn't the solution I was looking for. In the search for a lighter truck, I found this thread. I would really like to remove weight wherever possible. I have no need for a 6000mah battery for a 5-8 minute race, especially if the truck weighs less. So in an attempt to save weight and obtain a better balance in both directions (fore and aft, left and right) I did what I did. Locally, nobody has attempted to run a standard 540 sized motor in an SCTE, at least not that I have seen or heard of. In fact my 5.5 550 isn't really enough. Most here run a 4.5 550.
Anyways, the OP wanted information so there ya go. That's the balance part of the truck from my perspective. Use it if ya want, if not whatever.
.
Either way, I'm buying one of these chassis!!
Pics below of the test mule.
(Yes I know my fan mount and fan are contributing to the balance factor. Now that the truck is closer I have designed a vertical fan mount that sits in the center of the chassis.)
Anyways, the OP wanted information so there ya go. That's the balance part of the truck from my perspective. Use it if ya want, if not whatever.
.
Either way, I'm buying one of these chassis!!
Pics below of the test mule.
(Yes I know my fan mount and fan are contributing to the balance factor. Now that the truck is closer I have designed a vertical fan mount that sits in the center of the chassis.)
There are much lighter and better performing powerplants. Seems odd to have all the carbon and removed trays when you could ditch 2+oz with just a motor swap, and also not have a fan draining your battery. Besides the contradictory selection of components, and excessive amount of wire used, the carbon looks real nice!!
04-17-2011, 11:13 PM
#55
Understood. I like Novak motors for the same reason I like the RX8.. They work great for me and seem super durable. The fan isn't even noticeable as far as power drain is concerned, its only 5v but makes a 30-40 degree difference in temperature. The guys running Tekin 4.5's were coming off at 190 consistently. With the fan, 150's. Novaks run cooler than Tekins, at least that has been my experience.
I let a buddy borrow my RX8 yesterday for his 1/8 scale after his CC esc died, hence the reason for the long wires. lol.. I just grabbed the truck and snapped a photo as is.
Thanks for the comments. I'll put it back to normal after a rebuild this week and installation of a full set of ceramics from ABEC35 and maybe snap another pic.
I let a buddy borrow my RX8 yesterday for his 1/8 scale after his CC esc died, hence the reason for the long wires. lol.. I just grabbed the truck and snapped a photo as is.
Thanks for the comments. I'll put it back to normal after a rebuild this week and installation of a full set of ceramics from ABEC35 and maybe snap another pic.
04-18-2011, 12:50 AM
#56
Understood. I like Novak motors for the same reason I like the RX8.. They work great for me and seem super durable. The fan isn't even noticeable as far as power drain is concerned, its only 5v but makes a 30-40 degree difference in temperature. The guys running Tekin 4.5's were coming off at 190 consistently. With the fan, 150's. Novaks run cooler than Tekins, at least that has been my experience.
I let a buddy borrow my RX8 yesterday for his 1/8 scale after his CC esc died, hence the reason for the long wires. lol.. I just grabbed the truck and snapped a photo as is.
Thanks for the comments. I'll put it back to normal after a rebuild this week and installation of a full set of ceramics from ABEC35 and maybe snap another pic.
I let a buddy borrow my RX8 yesterday for his 1/8 scale after his CC esc died, hence the reason for the long wires. lol.. I just grabbed the truck and snapped a photo as is.
Thanks for the comments. I'll put it back to normal after a rebuild this week and installation of a full set of ceramics from ABEC35 and maybe snap another pic.
Can ya snap a pic of how exactly your battery fits in that carbon tray? It looks interesting.
04-18-2011, 04:51 PM
#57
Racetek I like what you've done with the carbon fiber fabbing. My only question, why in the world am I not buying a carbon fiber chassis from you? LOL
Being that I'm still in the layout process I can say that it has been a trying experience to appease the masses. Thus far I've received a lot of great input and intend on incorporating as much as I can while still preserving the stock layout. 8ight had a great idea for the motor mount which is the next piece I'm working on.
I threw out the X-brace for the center diff on another forum to see if it's desired. This is the mock up for now. The forum won't let me post pics as of yet but you all know what to do. Just copy past and "http:" in front of it.
//i54.tinypic.com/20ggpr9.jpg
Should have the carbon fiber sheets tomorrow and will have them water jetted shortly thereafter.
Being that I'm still in the layout process I can say that it has been a trying experience to appease the masses. Thus far I've received a lot of great input and intend on incorporating as much as I can while still preserving the stock layout. 8ight had a great idea for the motor mount which is the next piece I'm working on.
I threw out the X-brace for the center diff on another forum to see if it's desired. This is the mock up for now. The forum won't let me post pics as of yet but you all know what to do. Just copy past and "http:" in front of it.
//i54.tinypic.com/20ggpr9.jpg
Should have the carbon fiber sheets tomorrow and will have them water jetted shortly thereafter.
04-18-2011, 05:21 PM
#58
@ RACETEK...
will you be selling any of those carbon fiber parts?? if so, i would purchase them..
will you be selling any of those carbon fiber parts?? if so, i would purchase them..
04-19-2011, 06:38 AM
#59
Hydro,
If I were set up to do molding work then I would be all over it. My shop is setup to cnc flat stock, plastics, carbon sheet, wood etc. I am in the market for an autoclave and a decent vacuum pump to start bagging my own molded parts. I can machine the 3d molds all day, it is the other machinery to complete the equation that I am lacking to do mold work. Now if I had an aluminum nose piece things would be different.
Busta,
Yes I will be selling them as soon as they are ready. I am still making some changes to the parts to make them truly universal as far as balance is concerned. Put the motor one place for a 550 and another for a 540, or a lighter motor etc. Right now the relocation plate uses holes in the bottom to relocate everything. I might try a countersunk slot and see how well it holds. This way adjustment is infinite. The adjustable battery tray is working out very well. I raced a similar version of this tray in my prototype 808 e conversion. There are a few features built in other than just the adjustable battery placement.
Ridley,
I'll get a pic this evening for ya. The red studs hold the battery in place. The two red studs closest to the centerline assure that the battery can not get into the spur gear.
If I were set up to do molding work then I would be all over it. My shop is setup to cnc flat stock, plastics, carbon sheet, wood etc. I am in the market for an autoclave and a decent vacuum pump to start bagging my own molded parts. I can machine the 3d molds all day, it is the other machinery to complete the equation that I am lacking to do mold work. Now if I had an aluminum nose piece things would be different.
Busta,
Yes I will be selling them as soon as they are ready. I am still making some changes to the parts to make them truly universal as far as balance is concerned. Put the motor one place for a 550 and another for a 540, or a lighter motor etc. Right now the relocation plate uses holes in the bottom to relocate everything. I might try a countersunk slot and see how well it holds. This way adjustment is infinite. The adjustable battery tray is working out very well. I raced a similar version of this tray in my prototype 808 e conversion. There are a few features built in other than just the adjustable battery placement.
Ridley,
I'll get a pic this evening for ya. The red studs hold the battery in place. The two red studs closest to the centerline assure that the battery can not get into the spur gear.
04-19-2011, 07:31 PM
#60
Tech Adept
I agree that front to rear is more important but using the platform the way it was given to us lends itself to an adjustable motor/center diff area. I pit, setup, experiment, etc with 1/8 scale buggies / truggies at least 30 hours a week. I rarely if ever drive their vehicles. I make setup changes based on what I see and without knowing what the changes are, the drivers give me feedback. I literally watch hundreds of laps every week. I see every correction, every thought process, everything as it is transmitted thru that radio. When a consistent driver is given a well balanced car they will go faster and do it with less effort. The vehicle will corner more consistent in both directions, simply put, more predictable. However, in this particular case the truck seems to be heavy to me. Adding ballast to the light side wasn't the solution I was looking for. In the search for a lighter truck, I found this thread. I would really like to remove weight wherever possible. I have no need for a 6000mah battery for a 5-8 minute race, especially if the truck weighs less. So in an attempt to save weight and obtain a better balance in both directions (fore and aft, left and right) I did what I did. Locally, nobody has attempted to run a standard 540 sized motor in an SCTE, at least not that I have seen or heard of. In fact my 5.5 550 isn't really enough. Most here run a 4.5 550.
Anyways, the OP wanted information so there ya go. That's the balance part of the truck from my perspective. Use it if ya want, if not whatever.
.
Either way, I'm buying one of these chassis!!
Pics below of the test mule.
(Yes I know my fan mount and fan are contributing to the balance factor. Now that the truck is closer I have designed a vertical fan mount that sits in the center of the chassis.)
Anyways, the OP wanted information so there ya go. That's the balance part of the truck from my perspective. Use it if ya want, if not whatever.
.
Either way, I'm buying one of these chassis!!
Pics below of the test mule.
(Yes I know my fan mount and fan are contributing to the balance factor. Now that the truck is closer I have designed a vertical fan mount that sits in the center of the chassis.)