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Old 03-22-2011, 04:43 AM   #31
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The thing is that CC spend hours of developing and testing the ESC. And make it constantly better (V1-V5). The engineers who created the ESC need to be payed too. This cost is called R&D and costs a lot of money.
What Trackstar does it just copy the design, produce it and sell it. They just have no R&D costs because they just copy it from someone else.
I have to disagree here. The company/person that spends on R&D does come up with a cutting edge product that is better than others. E.g CC. If the price tag of this cutting edge product includes a REASONABLE markup for the R&D, people would love to pay the extra for having the edge. This extra buck in price should pay for the R&D, and more. Also, there will be more sales, and the follower will not be able to even keep up due to the high volume of CC sales and reputation. This phenomena will continue and a cutting edge company will always be making money. This is one pricing strategy that could have been possible.

Imagine, if the difference between MMM and Trackstar was like USD 30, and you know that MMM has the cutting edge technology, reputation, and customer support, why would u even think about Trackstar.

However, what CC is doing is having a huge margin as there were no competitors. This has resulted in others making copies of it. I am not saying the CC in unethical or bad or something like that, I am just saying that their pricing strategy is the reason Trackstar came into the picture. And i think they knew very well about this would happen one day. I am not even saying that their pricing strategy is incorrect from the business perspective. Consider the amount of money that have already made till now. Perhaps the strategy was to have it high till there are no competition, and then drop it later to compete. Perfect!!!! Sooner or later, they will have to drop it or else they will be out. But by that time they will have enough money to roll the above strategy that I mentioned.. and continue to lead and make money.
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Old 03-22-2011, 04:59 AM   #32
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When you factor in labor cost, the price difference between the trackstar and MM doesn't seem all the unreasonable.
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Old 03-22-2011, 05:01 AM   #33
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http://www.b-p-p.com/product.php?pro...8&cat=0&page=1 If you choose the ESC only, its $129 and mine came with the castle link in the box as well. Looks like they are out of stock right now, can't blame them at that price, I'm sure they will get more in. I guess nobody likes to actually save up and buy quailty stuff anymore from all this talk of basically being forced to buy the cheap stuff.
ummmmmm yeah that setup's right on the edge of my price range, so by the time i get the esc alone ill have already spent my funds limit to get a motor (unless if a MM is compatible with a leftover 3500kv VXL motor, but i doubt it). Why the hell are castle MM motors so dam spendy anyways? Seriously, 1 MM motor could almost get me a complete VXL system, and a single VXL system could very well push an E-Maxx.

If I were to save up for that, by the time I could afford it they'd already have stopped selling them. I know its automatically supposed to be a spendy hobby, but if thats the case then i might as well sell my slash, sell my emaxx roller (the one that needs the electronics setup in the first place on top of a gearbox & servos), and delete myself from all of my rc forums. otherwise, ill have to go with the "cheap stuff".

The only way I could afford a MM system is if i sold my Slash and all my batteries except for 1 Nimh (1 battery needed to run it of course). After all, with all the hype on CC stuff other setups wont get as much ebay buyer attention, so I'd get pennies on the dollar. The only thing really selling on there are lipos (only got 1 turnigy, worth $22) and roller chassis' (a slash 2wd roller wouldnt go for much at this day in age).
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Old 03-22-2011, 05:37 AM   #34
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So many of you people are the very reason why awesome companies fail, and crappy knockoff places prevail.

castle is constantly improving their products, along with constantly coming out with new products for us, this costs them money, or do some of you people not realize this? i dont mind paying the money for their products at all! every damn rc i own thats brushless is castle powered{i own 60+ rc's, better part of 30 are brushless} their customer support and service is unmatched, and their products are top notch.

none of these knockoff places are ever going to come out with new stuff, they will wait till new stuff comes out, and copy it and sell it for a stupidly low price

some of you should be ashamed of yourselves.


Those of you who are to damn cheap to buy good electronics from reputable companies, i pity you when your POS knockoff fails and you're out the money, and needing another ESC.

Those who brag about HK's warranty policy are foolish! i will always stand by turnigy batteries, as they've never done me wrong, but i will never in my life brag about their warranty service, or lack there of!
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Old 03-22-2011, 06:03 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by FTSC10 View Post
So many of you people are the very reason why awesome companies fail, and crappy knockoff places prevail.

castle is constantly improving their products, along with constantly coming out with new products for us, this costs them money, or do some of you people not realize this? i dont mind paying the money for their products at all! every damn rc i own thats brushless is castle powered{i own 60+ rc's, better part of 30 are brushless} their customer support and service is unmatched, and their products are top notch.

none of these knockoff places are ever going to come out with new stuff, they will wait till new stuff comes out, and copy it and sell it for a stupidly low price

some of you should be ashamed of yourselves.


Those of you who are to damn cheap to buy good electronics from reputable companies, i pity you when your POS knockoff fails and you're out the money, and needing another ESC.

Those who brag about HK's warranty policy are foolish! i will always stand by turnigy batteries, as they've never done me wrong, but i will never in my life brag about their warranty service, or lack there of!
You can go STFU buddy!

I'm sure you got money flying out your a-hole and only felt a fly in your ointment when the recession hit, but some of us aren't exactly able to afford top notch stuff. Right now I have an E-Maxx roller that I upconverted to the new chassis, but even after a year its still sitting down on a shelf in my garage (needing a power system, gearbox, servos, etc). A brand new MM e-maxx costs $590, & just a roller chassis alone goes for at least $200 on ebay. Even if i were to sell everything in my RC collection, I'd still be $300 short of an RTR MM e-maxx. Try a complete system costing $100 vs a MM at $270. If that research & development adds on 63% to the price tag, then maybe it's time for the R&D department to cut down on their budget & lower prices to keep sales up during the recession (this recession may last a while). You get the picture?

So I'm sorry you think i should be ashamed of wanting to go with something within eyesight of my price range, but honestly I could care less. Why don't you go shove it with the rest of your smug suppositories!
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Old 03-22-2011, 06:21 AM   #36
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Calm down guys! You can spend your money only once! Not only the CC guys are developing and improve their stuff but other companies also. In another post you could find the answer: why is every manufacter producing their stuff in China, Taiwan or Korea? Here is the answer: cutting cost.
Today electronics are smd which means they are produced by robots. China has the equipment already so why should an US company invest tons of dollars in new equipment? Can they earn that kind of money back for their investment?
Here is an example of how todays electronics are made:
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
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Old 03-22-2011, 06:40 AM   #37
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You can go STFU buddy!

I'm sure you got money flying out your a-hole and only felt a fly in your ointment when the recession hit, but some of us aren't exactly able to afford top notch stuff. Right now I have an E-Maxx roller that I upconverted to the new chassis, but even after a year its still sitting down on a shelf in my garage (needing a power system, gearbox, servos, etc). A brand new MM e-maxx costs $590, & just a roller chassis alone goes for at least $200 on ebay. Even if i were to sell everything in my RC collection, I'd still be $300 short of an RTR MM e-maxx. Try a complete system costing $100 vs a MM at $270. If that research & development adds on 63% to the price tag, then maybe it's time for the R&D department to cut down on their budget & lower prices to keep sales up during the recession (this recession may last a while). You get the picture?

So I'm sorry you think i should be ashamed of wanting to go with something within eyesight of my price range, but honestly I could care less. Why don't you go shove it with the rest of your smug suppositories!
You just dont get it.

PS, my finances are none of your business, my opinion has nothing to do with me having, or not having the financial backing to buy whatever.

What you dont realize is, you're screwing Castle over by buying these inferior knockoff's, CC put all of the effort,time,money,research and tooling into making these speedos{that HK copied}..basically you support theft in a roundabout way..

If you're so hard up for money, maybe you should live within your grasps, and either purchase USED equipment, or RC vehicles that do not require such high power equipment to operate.

It's sad that YOU dont see the bigger picture here..which is, if castle creations had'nt put the effort,time,money,research and tooling into making the equipment they do, YOU wouldnt have the oportunity to even purchase this HK knockoff junk, it's also sad that some of you either dont know, or simply dont care enough to support the very people and companies that support US as hobbyists.

HK couldnt give a shit less about hobbyists, its very easy to tell that they are in it purely for the profits, and nothing else. so when you pony out the dough for that 100 dollar knock off speedo, and whatever the motor costs, and it fails and HK doesnt warranty it out, or it takes you 8 months to get a new one, maybe you will then realize the BIGGER picture here.
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Old 03-22-2011, 06:44 AM   #38
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:06 AM   #39
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You just dont get it.

PS, my finances are none of your business, my opinion has nothing to do with me having, or not having the financial backing to buy whatever.

What you dont realize is, you're screwing Castle over by buying these inferior knockoff's, CC put all of the effort,time,money,research and tooling into making these speedos{that HK copied}..basically you support theft in a roundabout way..

If you're so hard up for money, maybe you should live within your grasps, and either purchase USED equipment, or RC vehicles that do not require such high power equipment to operate.

It's sad that YOU dont see the bigger picture here..which is, if castle creations had'nt put the effort,time,money,research and tooling into making the equipment they do, YOU wouldnt have the oportunity to even purchase this HK knockoff junk, it's also sad that some of you either dont know, or simply dont care enough to support the very people and companies that support US as hobbyists.

HK couldnt give a shit less about hobbyists, its very easy to tell that they are in it purely for the profits, and nothing else. so when you pony out the dough for that 100 dollar knock off speedo, and whatever the motor costs, and it fails and HK doesnt warranty it out, or it takes you 8 months to get a new one, maybe you will then realize the BIGGER picture here.
You are a patriot? Tell CC to manufacture their esc in the Us instead of China. Both their US and China facilities are doing the R&D not the US alone!
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:12 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by FTSC10 View Post
You just dont get it.

PS, my finances are none of your business, my opinion has nothing to do with me having, or not having the financial backing to buy whatever.

What you dont realize is, you're screwing Castle over by buying these inferior knockoff's, CC put all of the effort,time,money,research and tooling into making these speedos{that HK copied}..basically you support theft in a roundabout way..

If you're so hard up for money, maybe you should live within your grasps, and either purchase USED equipment, or RC vehicles that do not require such high power equipment to operate.

It's sad that YOU dont see the bigger picture here..which is, if castle creations had'nt put the effort,time,money,research and tooling into making the equipment they do, YOU wouldnt have the oportunity to even purchase this HK knockoff junk, it's also sad that some of you either dont know, or simply dont care enough to support the very people and companies that support US as hobbyists.

HK couldnt give a shit less about hobbyists, its very easy to tell that they are in it purely for the profits, and nothing else. so when you pony out the dough for that 100 dollar knock off speedo, and whatever the motor costs, and it fails and HK doesnt warranty it out, or it takes you 8 months to get a new one, maybe you will then realize the BIGGER picture here.
The bigger picture here is that CC doesn't believe that they should be price competitive, even where the same idea can be done cheaper and adjusts to a recession. True, they did put all that effort into R&D, but I'm very sure that their sales so far have already covered that expense. If they haven't, that brings up the horrible truth that their R&D methods are horribly inefficient & need to be changed. The materials price surely isn't the issue here, like all tech product suppliers they get parts from asia.

True, it sucks for them that their design is copied & produced under another label, but if it was such a crime then they should have patented it. If it cant be patented, that means its free game. Otherwise, quit whining about it.

millions of people download shared music/videos/software everyday, but if the crime was so extreme then those millions would be searched out & fined for it. There's lots of copies of microsoft office programs floating around the internet. Wanna know what microsoft did in response to this? THEY LOWERED THEIR PRICES!!!!! Even with a lower price, they still maintained a profit to cover their expenses on it. If CC did that, they'd be in the clear, simple as that.

Unlike your OPINION of HK, I actually did alot of interviewing & research on HK's customer service record and found it to be satisfactory to all i interviewed. True, their stuff is all off-brand and some of it copies, but they easily compare to top brands at competitive prices. Of all the people I interviewed, their HK products have been running strong for quite a while, some even longer than name brands. Among many, cheaper Turnigy's rate much better than top-o-the-line Maxamps.

Whats pretty funny is is my kits, other than buying the power systems my only real expense is from "name brand" parts that fail. My Slash had a Venom Nimh that went dead, it lasted shorter than my custom-made one did. My $190 maxamps lipo crapped out after 6 months, at a usage rate of 5 runs a week. If the cheaper knockoffs work equally or even better than the name brand ones, ill stick with the knockoffs thank you very much
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:17 AM   #41
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You are a patriot? Tell CC to manufacture their esc in the Us instead of China. Both their US and China facilities are doing the R&D not the US alone!
What does anything i said, have to do with patriotism?

It's about loyalty, i will stand behind CC as long as they are in business.

I understand why they manufacture their products overseas instead of here in the states, and honestly, i dont blame them. The majority of americans arent worth anywhere near the wages they think they are owed.

They invest the time and money to make products for a select group of people, and a damn good product at that, for a reasonable price, and an insane amount of power, they back that up with top notch customer service and warranty support, it shows that the profits that CC does make, goes towards more R&D for new products, and improvements for older ones.

I guess its just a matter of ethics and character in the end, cost really has nothing to do with it.
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:28 AM   #42
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What does anything i said, have to do with patriotism?

It's about loyalty, i will stand behind CC as long as they are in business.

I understand why they manufacture their products overseas instead of here in the states, and honestly, i dont blame them. The majority of americans arent worth anywhere near the wages they think they are owed.

They invest the time and money to make products for a select group of people, and a damn good product at that, for a reasonable price, and an insane amount of power, they back that up with top notch customer service and warranty support, it shows that the profits that CC does make, goes towards more R&D for new products, and improvements for older ones.

I guess its just a matter of ethics and character in the end, cost really has nothing to do with it.
well its now obvious you're not american

"The majority of americans arent worth anywhere near the wages they think they are owed"......if you were an american, that would be a lack of your loyalty to your nation.

FYI ethics on a company's side means competitive pricing to make sure their product can affordably make it to their "loyal" customers.
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:31 AM   #43
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The bigger picture here is that CC doesn't believe that they should be price competitive, even where the same idea can be done cheaper and adjusts to a recession. True, they did put all that effort into R&D, but I'm very sure that their sales so far have already covered that expense. If they haven't, that brings up the horrible truth that their R&D methods are horribly inefficient & need to be changed. The materials price surely isn't the issue here, like all tech product suppliers they get parts from asia.
HK is not their competitor, you fail to realize this...why would, or should CC lower the price of their products that they created solely, just because some no name knockoff company copied and STOLE their product? they are not price competitive? go price a tekin RX8 system, or a novak system...get back to me with your pricing

Its obvious you dont know much about business, or have ever owned a business. Where do you think these companies{cc/tekin/novak etc etc} get the fundage to research/develop/market these products and continue to make new products? It doesnt grow on trees brother...

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True, it sucks for them that their design is copied & produced under another label, but if it was such a crime then they should have patented it. If it cant be patented, that means its free game. Otherwise, quit whining about it.
I think you need to do some more of your fabulous research before you speak, since im a nice guy...ill explain.

im very positive that both CC and steve neu have patents here in the states for all of their products, as that's where they are "born" and developed, the issue here is, they are then manufactured overseas, where they are then stolen, and rebadged by unethical companies who have no issues stealing ideas just to make a buck.


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Unlike your OPINION of HK, I actually did alot of interviewing & research on HK's customer service record and found it to be satisfactory to all i interviewed. True, their stuff is all off-brand and some of it copies, but they easily compare to top brands at competitive prices. Of all the people I interviewed, their HK products have been running strong for quite a while, some even longer than name brands. Among many, cheaper Turnigy's rate much better than top-o-the-line Maxamps.
honestly, i question your research abilities, a very quick and simple google search clearly disputes your self proclaimed facts. LOL, id love to know who you "interviewed" as well..

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Whats pretty funny is is my kits, other than buying the power systems my only real expense is from "name brand" parts that fail. My Slash had a Venom Nimh that went dead, it lasted shorter than my custom-made one did. My $190 maxamps lipo crapped out after 6 months, at a usage rate of 5 runs a week. If the cheaper knockoffs work equally or even better than the name brand ones, ill stick with the knockoffs thank you very much
venom is not a name brand, its known garbage, as is maxamps/traxxas..etc etc, im not going to get into all the names and whatnot.

It's still sad that you cant see the issue here, but at the end of the day, it's your money, waste it as you please.
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:35 AM   #44
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well its now obvious you're not american
I can assure you i am.

I'm not blind though, and i dont sugarcoat things.

The greed of the people in this country is sickening, the same people who are demanding 10 or 15 bucks an hour to do the most simplistic tasks without any particular skill/trade, should be taking any job they can just to keep food on the table. instead the majority just like to sit at home sucking the tit of the few hardworking americans left.
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:42 AM   #45
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well its now obvious you're not american

"The majority of americans arent worth anywhere near the wages they think they are owed"......if you were an american, that would be a lack of your loyalty to your nation.

FYI ethics on a company's side means competitive pricing to make sure their product can affordably make it to their "loyal" customers.
in response to your edit additions...

Loyalty is alot like respect, its something thats earned, not just granted.

I will NEVER respect, or be loyal to someone who "thinks" they are worth a higher wage "just because" and i will NEVER respect or be loyal to someone who sucks the life and tax dollar out of hardworking people.

Not trying to be mean or rude, but do you even know what ethics are and or mean?

You carry on ranting about them needing to be price competitive, You are FAILING to realize that HK is not their competitor, they are theives selling stolen ideas and copied products.

their competitors would be more like Tekin/novak etc etc, like i said, go price their systems...look at castles pricing, then get back to me on that ethical pricing you rant about.
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