R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric Off-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-21-2011, 08:22 PM   #16
Tech Regular
 
K-Note72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 251
Default

Now how exactly did they clone the design anyways? Technical details?
__________________
We're all just a little bit mad..................I on the other hand take The Hatter's cake!
-Slash (waterproof), V-maxx XL (waterproof)
K-Note72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 08:25 PM   #17
Tech Master
 
simplechamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,315
Trader Rating: 73 (100%+)
Default

I already posted a link to the thread on RC-Monster. There are pictures there along with descriptions of how the programming and audio indicators are identical. Patrick the president of Castle also commented on the matter himself in the thread.
__________________
Serpent 811Be - Jammin X2 Carbon e-GT conversion - Axial SCX10 Honcho
simplechamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 08:47 PM   #18
Tech Regular
 
K-Note72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 251
Default

From what I've researched, the Trackstar seems to perform about as well as an MM system (and no I didn't just consult other HK customers on this). So sure it may have some cheaper parts, but if the end result isn't too much of a difference at a $100 difference, then I'll go with the lesser priced one. So I'm sorry if I'm attributing to this knockoff scheme, but I don't really care if any body thinks less of me because of it. Some of us really can't afford to spend a whole bunch of money, even if we are in a spendy hobby.

I want to get my old E-Maxx roller up & running, and with how much I still need to get, it'll be a while before it's finished & I won't be able to afford a fancy brushless system.
__________________
We're all just a little bit mad..................I on the other hand take The Hatter's cake!
-Slash (waterproof), V-maxx XL (waterproof)
K-Note72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 09:19 PM   #19
Tech Fanatic
 
mc4798's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 971
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

I have been using the Toro brand for around a month.

It performs very well on 4s so I couldnt comment on 5-6s . For a cheap speed controller to use with a 4s setup I would say it is fine.
__________________
ckhobby.com
USA Distributor of Dualsky Advanced Electronics
mc4798 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 12:20 AM   #20
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10
Default

I am also in the market searching for 1/8 scale ESC.. Following are my comments after reading the thread..

- Some one mentioned lower quality FETs and an older version internal BEC circuit. These are the same FETs that were in the last version of MMM, and is still there in Tekin RX8. Patrick (President of Castle Creations) said that essentially the new FETs in MMM creates less heat.. Good, but perhaps a little more heat is acceptable for a difference of 100 USD.

- Some are saying the HK does not have warranty. I and most of the other customer of HK continue to claim warranties, and are mostly given the option of a free replacement, or credit to our HK account. So i don't understand what is this thought about HK not having warranty. heck, Tekin only gives 120 days warranty on its RX8. I think the HK warranty is much better.

- If CC wants to compete, they have to have competitive pricing taking into consideration the globalization and interconnection of the world. If their prices are competitive in the first place, Trackstar would probably have never been there, and the MMM would have been in an even more RC Cars than it is now.. Perhaps even the 1/10 scale cars would have also been carrying MMM, and there would have been no CC 1/10 scale escs. I think they call this 'Economics of Scale', though I am not an economist. But I complete agree that Trackstar is a stolen design and that is BAD.

- Made in America??? Fine, if you are American.. I am not, so I don't have that problem. Infact, if you want to play by this rule, non-American should avoid buying USA products.. And now that is some thing you won't like..

I could be wrong, but just sharing my thoughts.
namalik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 02:10 AM   #21
Tech Regular
 
K-Note72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 251
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by namalik View Post
I am also in the market searching for 1/8 scale ESC.. Following are my comments after reading the thread..

- Some one mentioned lower quality FETs and an older version internal BEC circuit. These are the same FETs that were in the last version of MMM, and is still there in Tekin RX8. Patrick (President of Castle Creations) said that essentially the new FETs in MMM creates less heat.. Good, but perhaps a little more heat is acceptable for a difference of 100 USD.

- Some are saying the HK does not have warranty. I and most of the other customer of HK continue to claim warranties, and are mostly given the option of a free replacement, or credit to our HK account. So i don't understand what is this thought about HK not having warranty. heck, Tekin only gives 120 days warranty on its RX8. I think the HK warranty is much better.

- If CC wants to compete, they have to have competitive pricing taking into consideration the globalization and interconnection of the world. If their prices are competitive in the first place, Trackstar would probably have never been there, and the MMM would have been in an even more RC Cars than it is now.. Perhaps even the 1/10 scale cars would have also been carrying MMM, and there would have been no CC 1/10 scale escs. I think they call this 'Economics of Scale', though I am not an economist. But I complete agree that Trackstar is a stolen design and that is BAD.

- Made in America??? Fine, if you are American.. I am not, so I don't have that problem. Infact, if you want to play by this rule, non-American should avoid buying USA products.. And now that is some thing you won't like..

I could be wrong, but just sharing my thoughts.
Basically if it has similar parts as the old MMM then it shouldn't do too bad performance-wise. So let me do the math here: $100 less, same performance, slightly lesser-quality parts(slightly shorter runtime)......I'm definitely willing to settle for the $100 cheaper option. For some of us thats quite a bit of cash, especially considering some of us had to sell our Traxxas Summit to survive through half of the last school term

I interviewed people inside & outside of HK, & they all agree that HK has good warranties. If I got the same response on many other sites other than HK, then I guess that means it must be true.

Since CC is an american company, they need to understand the current american economy. And in this current american economy, people are gonna do all they can to save money, even find alternatives to top brands. I bought a bag of imitation lucky charms for greater quantity at 3/4 the price, and it tasted EXACTLY the same. The same goes for these chinese knockoffs vs CC, if they want to maximize their business then they need to be competitive in their prices. The "Higher price=higher quality" phrase is a load of BS, and that train of thought WILL NOT work in this economy. Sure, if I could afford the system then I'd have it in both my Slash and my E-maxx. Currently, I can't even afford one setup. And I do agree that it was BS that their design got stolen, but I doubt that the higher-quality parts cost twice the price.

Same story with lipos, why buy a $160 3s from Maxamps when you can get the exact same thing from Turnigy for $30?
__________________
We're all just a little bit mad..................I on the other hand take The Hatter's cake!
-Slash (waterproof), V-maxx XL (waterproof)
K-Note72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 02:59 AM   #22
Tech Elite
 
MrUnlimited's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 2,465
Default

I started with the first CC mamba25 for my 1/18: problems cogging. Later CC cam wtih a Mamba max for 1/10. Guess what: we had problems again, cogging and the supplied software could NOT run on Vista if you didn't open it as administrator. The first month we were supplied with different firmware versions. After 4-5month we had it running smooth.
Today I use the Chinese Hobbywing Xerun esc in my cars: cheaper and without any problems. They are even sensored! Even their software is running normal under Windows 7 64bit!
In my boat I have also a Chinese esc made by ETTI. In the boatingworld this is the best ESC at the moment and you know why? They are WATERPROOF!
CC is staying behind far away in the boatingworld and as for me: I am happy with my Chinese stuff!

By the way: 99% of the radiosets are manufactured in China or Japan and why don't nobody complain about that? I have never seen an US made radio!
__________________
U5 Formulaboat 1/8 hydroplane - MHZ138 AQUAMANIA - Axial Exo Terra - Tamiya Avante - LC Racing EMB1 - Atomic AMZ 4WD Touring car
MrUnlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 03:12 AM   #23
Tech Regular
 
K-Note72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 251
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUnlimited View Post
I started with the first CC mamba25 for my 1/18: problems cogging. Later CC cam wtih a Mamba max for 1/10. Guess what: we had problems again, cogging and the supplied software could NOT run on Vista if you didn't open it as administrator. The first month we were supplied with different firmware versions. After 4-5month we had it running smooth.
Today I use the Chinese Hobbywing Xerun esc in my cars: cheaper and without any problems. They are even sensored! Even their software is running normal under Windows 7 64bit!
In my boat I have also a Chinese esc made by ETTI. In the boatingworld this is the best ESC at the moment and you know why? They are WATERPROOF!
CC is staying behind far away in the boatingworld and as for me: I am happy with my Chinese stuff!

By the way: 99% of the radiosets are manufactured in China or Japan and why don't nobody complain about that? I have never seen an US made radio!
Exactly. And economically, we're so far deep in the recession that some of us have no choice but to buy the cheaper chinese stuff. Much of the stuff we make here, china can make cheaper. We might be able to buy back some of our bonds if we could start selling china something it didn't have........Clean air? Clean water?.........Humanitarian policies?
__________________
We're all just a little bit mad..................I on the other hand take The Hatter's cake!
-Slash (waterproof), V-maxx XL (waterproof)
K-Note72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 03:37 AM   #24
Tech Elite
 
morgoth's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 2,518
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by namalik View Post
- If CC wants to compete, they have to have competitive pricing taking into consideration the globalization and interconnection of the world. If their prices are competitive in the first place, Trackstar would probably have never been there, and the MMM would have been in an even more RC Cars than it is now.. Perhaps even the 1/10 scale cars would have also been carrying MMM, and there would have been no CC 1/10 scale escs. I think they call this 'Economics of Scale', though I am not an economist. But I complete agree that Trackstar is a stolen design and that is BAD.
The thing is that CC spend hours of developing and testing the ESC. And make it constantly better (V1-V5). The engineers who created the ESC need to be payed too. This cost is called R&D and costs a lot of money.
What Trackstar does it just copy the design, produce it and sell it. They just have no R&D costs because they just copy it from someone else.
__________________
Serpent BeNeLux teamdriver // FX Engines // Nitrolux fuel
My blog: http://scrubbingspeed.wordpress.com
morgoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 03:44 AM   #25
Tech Regular
 
K-Note72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 251
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by morgoth View Post
The thing is that CC spend hours of developing and testing the ESC. And make it constantly better (V1-V5). The engineers who created the ESC need to be payed too. This cost is called R&D and costs a lot of money.
What Trackstar does it just copy the design, produce it and sell it. They just have no R&D costs because they just copy it from someone else.
However the sad thing is that many of us right now can't afford to up & buy a spendy MM brushless system. So what's the next best thing we can do? buy the knockoff. What else is there to do? buy some other crappy brushless system that doesn't even compare? I'm sorry, but I doubt their sales will do very well unless they can bring their price down into the "affordable" range. Maybe put the R&D department on a budget?
__________________
We're all just a little bit mad..................I on the other hand take The Hatter's cake!
-Slash (waterproof), V-maxx XL (waterproof)
K-Note72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 03:53 AM   #26
Tech Elite
 
MrUnlimited's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 2,465
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by morgoth View Post
The thing is that CC spend hours of developing and testing the ESC. And make it constantly better (V1-V5). The engineers who created the ESC need to be payed too. This cost is called R&D and costs a lot of money.
What Trackstar does it just copy the design, produce it and sell it. They just have no R&D costs because they just copy it from someone else.
Lot of Chinese things are copied but I don't think Hobbywing isn't copying anybody. They have their own R&D since they are also produce industrial esc's. I'll stick to hobbywing, besides that CC manufacture their stuff in........China!
__________________
U5 Formulaboat 1/8 hydroplane - MHZ138 AQUAMANIA - Axial Exo Terra - Tamiya Avante - LC Racing EMB1 - Atomic AMZ 4WD Touring car
MrUnlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 04:00 AM   #27
Tech Regular
 
K-Note72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 251
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUnlimited View Post
Lot of Chinese things are copied but I don't think Hobbywing isn't copying anybody. They have their own R&D since they are also produce industrial esc's. I'll stick to hobbywing, besides that CC manufacture their stuff in........China!
Just about everything in our economy is/was made in China. After all, this is an international hobby. Plus as a big business, CC knows that parts & labor come cheap in China.
__________________
We're all just a little bit mad..................I on the other hand take The Hatter's cake!
-Slash (waterproof), V-maxx XL (waterproof)
K-Note72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 04:15 AM   #28
Tech Elite
 
RCaddict0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: West Virgina
Posts: 3,526
Trader Rating: 85 (99%+)
Send a message via AIM to RCaddict0
Default

Ive only been in the hobby a short time and Its Hobbywing if I cant afford Castle. Nothing else. Ive tried other "chinese" esc's to have them die quickly. I like the ability to call up tech support and have help there or have my faulty product quickly replaced.
Now..Hobbywing products have provin them selves and made there footprint in the hobby world. It doesnt seem there copying anyones designs. Ive actually owned several EZ and XE Run ESC's and there about bulletproof IMO.
As for Toro, Trackstars, Quik and the countless other cheap ESC's you can keep them. You can buy a used ESC on the Tech for a few bucks more than the cost of one of the mentioned ESC's and still have CC tech support's there to help.
__________________
E Maxx Brushless ~ Rustler VXL ~ Rally VXL 1/16
Ruckus Brushless ~ Stampede VXL
* Hobbywing Powered *
RCaddict0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 04:18 AM   #29
Tech Regular
 
K-Note72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 251
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCaddict0 View Post
Ive only been in the hobby a short time and Its Hobbywing if I cant afford Castle. Nothing else. Ive tried other "chinese" esc's to have them die quickly. I like the ability to call up tech support and have help there or have my faulty product quickly replaced.
Now..Hobbywing products have provin them selves and made there footprint in the hobby world. It doesnt seem there copying anyones designs. Ive actually owned several EZ and XE Run ESC's and there about bulletproof IMO.
As for Toro, Trackstars, Quik and the countless other cheap ESC's you can keep them. You can buy a used ESC on the Tech for a few bucks more than the cost of one of the mentioned ESC's and still have CC tech support's there to help.
lol they make any EZ & XERun's for 1/8 scale?
__________________
We're all just a little bit mad..................I on the other hand take The Hatter's cake!
-Slash (waterproof), V-maxx XL (waterproof)
K-Note72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 04:43 AM   #30
Tech Master
 
hobbipro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: West Palm Beach
Posts: 1,326
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

http://www.b-p-p.com/product.php?pro...8&cat=0&page=1 If you choose the ESC only, its $129 and mine came with the castle link in the box as well. Looks like they are out of stock right now, can't blame them at that price, I'm sure they will get more in. I guess nobody likes to actually save up and buy quailty stuff anymore from all this talk of basically being forced to buy the cheap stuff.
hobbipro is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 06:24 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net